MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft | Page 54

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
It was a 6-10 team prior to Harbaugh coming in, and it's amazing how a legit edge rusher can turn a defense from 16th in the NFL to 2nd. I think Harbaugh's strength is spotting defensive personnel and I don't give any credit to Baalke on that, and it was a draft where both still had a working relationship with each other(meaning Baalke still respected Haarbaugh's opinions). I think the difference between 6-10 and 13-3 (a difference of +7 wins) is mostly Harbaugh, not prior personnel (again I'm crediting the drafting of Aldon to HaarBaalke during their first year together when they did communicate). Same thing happened in 1981 - dog s**t defense in 1980 turns into the 2nd ranked defense in '81 with the acquisition of Fred Dean. As for offense, it went from 24th to 11th in 2012, that was Harbaugh because I don't think Baalke was ever able to legitimately draft offense. Look at what happened to the 49er offense after Harbaugh, it dropped from 11th to 25th in Harbaugh's last year and dropped to 32nd during FartSula's reign. So I don't really buy that argument that he had inherited playoff caliber personnel, nor do I buy the argument that Harbaugh's offense was Neanderthal and ineffective in the NFL. But I agree with anybody who says Harbaugh's offense was nowhere near the Classic WCO that Bill Walsh ran.

As for Harbaugh as a GM/HC - just look to College Football where he is a defacto GM/HC. He's been very successful wherever he's been. I have confidence that if he had total control of the ballclub like Ditka under Halas, he'd do well. Sure the NFL draft is different from Recruiting in college, and in many respects it's much *easier* because you can find good talent available in the undrafted category if you know your stuff. (Brieda and Kendrick Bourn come to mind, same with Ian Willaims) Ditka and Buddy Ryan didn't get along because Buddy was hired by the previous organization. If Harbaugh had total control, he'd hire *his* guys and I would think he'd be able to communicate with *his guys* vs guys that *aren't* his guys. Key to Harbaugh repeating his success in the NFL in his next possible opportunity is having a good relationship with the owner. I think that's all he needs, he has a good foundation from talent acquisition to X's and O's to build a successful NFL career if he's given total control. Afterall, Mike Ditka had above .500+ won/loss percentage with the Bears and a Rah Rah college guy like Pete Carroll also had a +.500 won loss percentage in the NFL.

I'm gonna disagree with you a little. So Harbs was responsible for Aldon, but wasn't for Tank or Jimmie Ward? You can't say he was part of drafting all the great players and none of the s**tty ones If Harbs get's the credit for drafting defense, then I don't think he did an amazing job (We've resigned one defensive player under Harbs tenure in Dial, I believe).

I never said Jim was a bad coach or wasn't responsible for the turnaround. That was never my point. People either thought it was all Baalke or Harbs and I've stated it was both (for the split). Also to say he had a poor player personnel is foolish...there was plenty of NFL analysis stating SF had one of the best rosters in the game for a couple yrs, I brought up the SB as a good example. SF should have b***h slapped the Ravens based on talent alone BUT they got out coached in all 3 phases.

Harbs offense IMO was without question neanderthal...it was ground and pound and let the defense win more often than not. He never made adjustments. For someone that was suppose to be a offensive wizard it didn't show IMO. (they had one season where they were outside of the top 20 in total offense). I think Roman played a part in that and Harbs should have fired him. He didn't.

I don't get the Ditka/Ryan comparison? Ditka had all the power and Buddy was a DC under him end of the day. Harbs wasn't the GM and he most certainly had control of his coaching staff and who was brought in...those were his guys. We're talking about being able to work with a GM and a GM being able to work with a HC. Neither could do it. That's on both of them.

Again college football it's not close to the NFL especially when it comes to bringing in talent. When you work for a power 5 conference and a big school like Stanford/Michigan you've already got a huge advantage with acquiring top talent...there's no real cap space, no real contracts, no egos, etc. I think Harbs is great at recruiting guys and talking those 4-5 star recruits into playing for him. You don't do that in the NFL. Harbs IMHO is a great college coach and can roll where he's at. Could he win some games in the NFL? No doubt, can he have a sustainable coaching career at one place? I don't think so.

as far as Pete Carroll goes, he was getting close to the hot seat before Wilson saved his ass lol. Check out his past couple drafts from them (does Pete or Schneider get credit?) they haven't killed it since that 2012 draft and are looking to take a couple steps back because of the lack of success from their drafts. You think Pete's rah rah is gonna work when they start losing some games? Gonna have to wait and see....sounds like some of the guys who left Seattle were done with it.

In all, would I rather have Harbs or Baalke? Without question Harbs, dude is a good coach end of the day. I'm not gonna say he didn't play a part into him leaving though.

As to Harbaugh's offense. His style of a power run offense with the long ball has won many super bowls. 3 with Al Davis and 2 with Joe Gibbs and 4 with Chuck Noll. The only Neanderthal thing about it is that it's a run first offense that features a power running game. Otherwise, the passing side is as sophisticated as the WCO is (for a long ball offense) it still relies on timing and anticipation just like the WCO. But it needs speed at the WR positions to make it work. Baalke never gave that to Harbaugh.

If you look at the 1973 and 1974 Steelers, you can see great defenses, but until they added speed - that offense didn't take them deep into the playoffs. Add in John Stallworth and Lynn Swan and that offense took off and super bowls started appearing in their cupboards.

Stallworth, blessed with great leaping ability and excellent speed, was the 82nd player taken that year. After a rookie year as an understudy, he became a starter in his second season and held that job for the rest of his 165-game career. .https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=963&ei=FfVPW9c30di1BbXmjsAK&q=speed+of+john+stallworth%3F&oq=speed+of+john+stallworth%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3...24607.29369.0.29892.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.TborGxwsrH8

So Rooney arranged to time Swann on the West Coast. Swann ran a 4.55. That was good enough for Noll. http://old.post-gazette.com/steelers/20010420nfldraft2.asp

To understand the Raiders' obsession with speed, you have to go back to early 1964. That's when Davis started collecting fast players in addition to wide receivers to attack defenses. His tight end at the time, Ken Herock, was mostly a blocker. Davis acquired former Heisman Trophy-winning running back Billy Cannon after Cannon spent three years with the Houston Oilers. In 1961, he led the AFL in rushing. But Davis converted him to a receiving tight end.
"I knew he wanted to replace me with Billy because Billy could really run," Herock said.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2036826-speed-was-the-all-consuming-obsession-of-al-davis-raiders

Once idiot Baalke got rid of the speed on Harbaugh's offense, and never replaced it, Harbaugh's offense was doomed.

As to the Draft. After the disastrous 2012 draft, the personal relationship between Harbaugh and Baalke deteriorated. However, the *role* of a GM is not to coach the team, that's the HC's job. The *role* of a GM is to support the HC, and Baalke did a piss poor job of it. If you talk about drafts - Baalke was not responsible for the 2011 draft (which was largely on McDrunk) in terms of the effort provided. Baalke's drafts after 2011 stank - and one of the reasons is that he wasn't communicating well with Harbaugh and Harbaugh's coaching staff. The role of a GM is to support his HC, not back stab his coach. After the 2012 draft, Harbaugh knew he had a chicken s**t GM and he couldn't do a dang thing about it because under the terms Jed, Harbaugh, and Baalke agreed to, is that Harbaugh is the coach and Baalke is the GM, that's probably one reason he never signed an extension. So the final responsibility for any draft during Baalke's tenure is his, not Harbaughs. Jimmy Ward and Tank were drafted *after* Baalke and Jim's relationship pretty much deteriorated to where they weren't communicating and hence the bad drafts after 2011.

As for College vs NFL, its *easier* to get talent in the NFL vs College in this sense, you either draft them or sign them. Having said that, again talent acquisition is the responsibility of the GM not the Head Coach under the Haarbalke Regime. How many undrafted players make the NFL every year - a good bunch of 'em I think. As for Harbaugh, Pete Carroll, and Ditka, my point was that rah rah works if the HC is in *charge* of the team vs having a backstabbing GM tank your coaching career. I think Harbaugh did a pretty good job of winning despite a crap GM and a clueless Owner *helping* him.

Again, I go back to how Harbaugh improved the offense when he got to the 49ers and how the offense tanked when he left. I think (and again, I agree it's sheer speculation) if he's given the total reins of an NFL club, he probably could do as well as Kyle has done so far. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm totally ecstatic that Kyle is our Coach and I wouldn't trade him for Harbaugh, but I still think Harbaugh got screwed by the owner and the GM. I just think if Harbaugh had *his* GM and *his* guys, I think he'd have no problems communicating with them - and just look at how Ditka and Al Davis did with the Raiders and Bears with both of *their* personalities. They did just fine, because they had total control.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Baalke never gave speed to Harbaugh?

Ted Freaking Ginn. 2 whole catches in 2012.

"Less than two minutes after the 49ers' reclaimed a fourth-quarter lead at New England, Ted Ginn Jr. muffed a punt return. He at least recovered the loose ball at the 49ers' 28-yard line to avert disaster.

But earlier in the game, Ginn nearly muffed another punt return, as the ball barely eluded him on the slick grass and set off a confusing replay challenge.

Do those gaffes — along with a lost fumble on a muffed punt return last month at New Orleans — place Ginn's job in jeopardy?"
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2012/12/22/does-ginn-remain-best-option-as-punt-returner/

This Ted Ginn??

Kyle Williams nor Ted Ginn could return for us or had serious problems holding onto the ball.

Talent much??? Scheme much??

[ Edited by Wu-5Rings on Jul 18, 2018 at 8:07 PM ]