MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft

Originally posted by longtime49erfan:

I think you have neglected to include one vital ingredient in terms of analyzing the 49ers 2012 picks. In fairness, I think most analysts have failed to include this ingredient in their analyses.

That ingredient is coaching. You - and most others - tend to grade players based on their statistics, performance, history, etc. However, in order to properly grade a draft pick, you must integrate the coaching element, too. What will these players be like after being coached by Jim Harbaugh and his staff?

You are correct in your statement that we will not really know how successful (or not) this draft was for 3 years. However, we should begin to get a sense of how these players will respond to the 49ers coaching staff and philosophies during this off season, OTAs, training camp, and the 2012 season.

IMO, if the draft makes the team better, then it is a good draft.

This is a great point and too often overlooked in terms of draft evaluation. From the viewpoint of Baalke and Harbaugh, they are looking at their draft picks in terms of what they can be with an entire off-season of great coaching. The vast majority of draftniks are not.

For example, they might agree with Maddog in that Stephen Hill is overall, a better athlete and even that he has more upside than AJ Jenkins. However, they also see that right now, Jenkins is a much more polished player than Hill and that after an off-season of NFL weight training and excellent coaching, AJ could help the team far more than any other wideout they could have gotten at pick number 30.....and who am I to disagree?

Another example is Looney. Right now, it appears he is a good road grader but that he is lacking in terms of his pass protection skills. Well, B and H probably look at him as having all of the athleticism necessary to be a very good OG in the NFL but simply needs some time to refine his pass protection techniques...and they feel they can help him do that.

Originally posted by TimeBandit:

Originally posted by Janitor:

Originally posted by RonMexico:
hes only at 25%

why would he be banned

Incorrect

Its all sunshine and lollipops in mod land:-) 1988 punk kid!! Prove I broke any part of rule one!!! Other then stating my opinion on a opinion!! As others flat out insult on here and get no warnings you keep dinging me for nothing!! Grow a pair and show me where I was a jerk or picked on a single person or anything other then state my distain for draft grades an know it alls!!:-).

Apprrciated as always and of course you gotta ruffle some feathers , so obviously I disagree with your analysis of the first two picks.

Consider this, the offense we ran last year was out of necessity. Limited offseason = safe conservative offense. It also catered to the players abilities since they were drafted for sings fysical offense. That was successful, but during the season Harbaugh has keyed in on what Alex does well, throw with multiple receiver sets, often out of shotgun. Being a former qb there is no way Harbaugh will be complacent with just a smashmouth team. I think we will see more multiple receiver sets to cater to Alex's strengths. It would appear they drafted to add that type of versatility to the offense. We can line up with 7 lineman or completely spread out.

There's a good chance we carry 4 true rbs in gore, hunter, James and Jacobs, because having Gore on the field is becoming more of a luxury than a constant. So we got the best available WR that can line up anywhere, something Hill would not be able to do. Then we got the best available speed back with hands. This staff wants players who will cash in when the ball hits their hands, something only VD could consistently bring last year. So when considering the added versatility and dimension these players can provide the grade should be much higher.

And I don't know what you're smoking to make you think AJ will take 3 years to develop but pass that ish ova!

From the way the 49ers approached this draft, they obviously seem to believe the offensive line looked worse than it really was last year because of all the pressure defences were putting on it. Perhaps they feel that if they add more offensive playmakers into the mix it will force opposing defences out of the near constant 8 man fronts they were employing late last season. Lets hope the teams analysis is correct; the additions of James, Jenkins, Manningham, and Moss will spread defences out a bit and alleviate some of the pressure that was being put on the line of scrimmage last season.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I respect the hell out you MD, but Jenkins is an F grade? It filled a need and was a good pick, he is a speedster who was productive at Illinois with a s**tty QB.

James is great pick, Sproles like to me.

Based on the way the draft went, Konz and Sanu would of been reaches, they went may lower than our picks would of been.

I am also happy with the trades we made, can't beat turning one pick into a 3rd, 5th, 6th in 2013 and 2 6ths this year.

It wasn't a flashy draft, but it was what we needed, depth. We didn't have many needs or holes at all. I only see maybe 5 open roster spots for the 53 man right now.

I give us a B+, and thats not counting the 3 2013 picks that we got.

Hi, AB. As I stated in the thread, Jenkins himself does not warrant the F grade, it is the missed opportunity to go up and get a player with superior grades at a reasonable price at the neediest position on the field for us.

Seems like a lot of drawing conclusion from out of nowhere Maddog:


1) The FO considered OLine our neediest position? Prior, during, or after the draft....I am not aware of any statements by our FO suggesting that Oline is our neediest position. There is simply nothing from our FO supporting your opinion on this, that I am aware of anyways.

2) The FO graded Decastro superior to Jenkins? The same as above^^^^^^^^^...there is simply nothing from our FO to support your opinion on this.

3) Could have done it a reasonable price? Again, nothing from the FO seems to support your opinion on this either. Hell, for all we know....the FO may have attempted to orchestrate a trade at a reasonable price. In fact, the possibility exists that may have indeed tried to orchestrate a trade, and the price demanded by the trade partner was deemed unreasonable, or they simply deemed the price unreasonable because of how moving up would effect their draft plan, or overall strategic long term planning. The statements put out by our FO to the effect of deciding to "stay pat" does not exclude the possibility that they may have indeed tried to move up and the price was higher than what they deemed reasonable. These guys don't think in terms of one draft alone, they think in terms of several, along with FA. Note: It's entirely possible one of the goals of this draft was to accumulate extra picks this year, for next year. Hence, from that....it's entirely possible the FO could consider not coming away with extra pics this year, for next year, an unreasonable price to pay.

I get what you are saying Maddog, and it's looking to me that it is pretty much subjective reasoning behind it, with little or none factual evidence from our FO to support the conclusion you are drawing about moving up for better for reasonable etc.

Therefore, I do not accept your F grade.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Consider this, the offense we ran last year was out of necessity. Limited offseason = safe conservative offense. It also catered to the players abilities since they were drafted for sings fysical offense. That was successful, but during the season Harbaugh has keyed in on what Alex does well, throw with multiple receiver sets, often out of shotgun. Being a former qb there is no way Harbaugh will be complacent with just a smashmouth team. I think we will see more multiple receiver sets to cater to Alex's strengths. It would appear they drafted to add that type of versatility to the offense. We can line up with 7 lineman or completely spread out.

I think you are very close to the mark here. Harbaugh looked at last season and how limited the offense was, and also realized that while last season often relied on some trickery and deceit that opponents would be well prepared for this year, and said, "we better get some weapons that will let us open things up."

I dont see how anyome thinks we are set at RB. Jacobs, is not that good, Frank G is realllll close to being a non factor, due to injuries, age, and really i don't like him receiving out of the backfield. Dixon is gone, this Lamichael James pick might go down as one of the better picks as far as value in the draft. Hunter and James are similar, but not identical. Thats a solid tandem to start a new backfield for the next 5-7 years. BAALKE is slowly building a freakishly athletic speedy offense and it is a thing of beauty. No one has ANY idea what Jenkins is gonna turn out to be like, so no one should grade that pick at all. Could be a poor mans Mike Wallace (which is worth a #30 pick), could be a s**tty Brandon Lloyd (worth a 5th rounder). Thats how this draft is gonna be rated, if they found a GEM or not in Jenkins, cuz i think James is a home run.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 5280High:
Consider this, the offense we ran last year was out of necessity. Limited offseason = safe conservative offense. It also catered to the players abilities since they were drafted for sings fysical offense. That was successful, but during the season Harbaugh has keyed in on what Alex does well, throw with multiple receiver sets, often out of shotgun. Being a former qb there is no way Harbaugh will be complacent with just a smashmouth team. I think we will see more multiple receiver sets to cater to Alex's strengths. It would appear they drafted to add that type of versatility to the offense. We can line up with 7 lineman or completely spread out.

I think you are very close to the mark here. Harbaugh looked at last season and how limited the offense was, and also realized that while last season often relied on some trickery and deceit that opponents would be well prepared for this year, and said, "we better get some weapons that will let us open things up."

His playbook is a hell of a lot bigger than what we saw last year. You can bet, Harbaugh is thinking in terms of using his full play book. You can bet, he has been planning on using as much of his playbook at any given time that he can. You can bet, he is gonna plan and build, through the years...with the the objective of using as much of his playbook as he can.

Originally posted by nw9erfan:

Originally posted by longtime49erfan:

I think you have neglected to include one vital ingredient in terms of analyzing the 49ers 2012 picks. In fairness, I think most analysts have failed to include this ingredient in their analyses.

That ingredient is coaching. You - and most others - tend to grade players based on their statistics, performance, history, etc. However, in order to properly grade a draft pick, you must integrate the coaching element, too. What will these players be like after being coached by Jim Harbaugh and his staff?

You are correct in your statement that we will not really know how successful (or not) this draft was for 3 years. However, we should begin to get a sense of how these players will respond to the 49ers coaching staff and philosophies during this off season, OTAs, training camp, and the 2012 season.

IMO, if the draft makes the team better, then it is a good draft.

This is a great point and too often overlooked in terms of draft evaluation. From the viewpoint of Baalke and Harbaugh, they are looking at their draft picks in terms of what they can be with an entire off-season of great coaching. The vast majority of draftniks are not.

For example, they might agree with Maddog in that Stephen Hill is overall, a better athlete and even that he has more upside than AJ Jenkins. However, they also see that right now, Jenkins is a much more polished player than Hill and that after an off-season of NFL weight training and excellent coaching, AJ could help the team far more than any other wideout they could have gotten at pick number 30.....and who am I to disagree?

Another example is Looney. Right now, it appears he is a good road grader but that he is lacking in terms of his pass protection skills. Well, B and H probably look at him as having all of the athleticism necessary to be a very good OG in the NFL but simply needs some time to refine his pass protection techniques...and they feel they can help him do that.

That is exactly my point. If you are going to accurately analyze draft picks, you must include how the players will play after going through the offseason and being coached by the team's staff. Great points from you, too nw.

Thanks for the effort sir. Deff disagree with your James grade doe

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The Eagles love Cox

I've had that same impression for years now.

Regarding DeCastro, I'm of the POV that Harbaugh not being in his corner...despite tremendous exposure to him and a clear need at the position...is kind of damning to DeCastro. Last year Harbaugh & Baalke did a tremendous job of recognizing internal talent (Bowman, Tarell Brown, Ray McDonald, etc), so they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me when evaluating players that they're very familiar with.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Consider this, the offense we ran last year was out of necessity. Limited offseason = safe conservative offense. It also catered to the players abilities since they were drafted for sings fysical offense. That was successful, but during the season Harbaugh has keyed in on what Alex does well, throw with multiple receiver sets, often out of shotgun. Being a former qb there is no way Harbaugh will be complacent with just a smashmouth team. I think we will see more multiple receiver sets to cater to Alex's strengths. It would appear they drafted to add that type of versatility to the offense. We can line up with 7 lineman or completely spread out.

I think you are very close to the mark here. Harbaugh looked at last season and how limited the offense was, and also realized that while last season often relied on some trickery and deceit that opponents would be well prepared for this year, and said, "we better get some weapons that will let us open things up."

Totally agree which was why we also drafted Kaep last year. Anyways, I don't even know what to make of this draft except for getting the best talent available and stocking up on next years picks.

I felt the same way about trading up for Decastro - then I realized (a) the guy who coached him in college probably has a better understanding of his talent than I do and (b) you need a trading partner. The only spot where the team traded out of a pick around where Decastro fell to was NE moving into the Bengals pick. And the Bengals wanted a guard (Zeitler) so they needed to stay in front of BAL and SF. But if the team would been interested SF would have had to give up a 3rd and #30 at a minimum. So hypothetically you could have Decastro or Jenkins / Looney / 3rd / 5th Rounder next year.

At this point, I'll take the later. There's a ton of money and picks invested in the oline right now. But adding more bulk and size won't get this team to the next level. The 49ers desperately needed to get faster and get some big play ability out there.

I also agree that the focus of the offense clearly changed towards the end of the season with more passing either out of Gore's injury or Harbaugh's intent. But the concept that this team will only be a smash mouth team I believe is misleading.

Originally posted by longtime49erfan:

Originally posted by nw9erfan:

Originally posted by longtime49erfan:

I think you have neglected to include one vital ingredient in terms of analyzing the 49ers 2012 picks. In fairness, I think most analysts have failed to include this ingredient in their analyses.

That ingredient is coaching. You - and most others - tend to grade players based on their statistics, performance, history, etc. However, in order to properly grade a draft pick, you must integrate the coaching element, too. What will these players be like after being coached by Jim Harbaugh and his staff?

You are correct in your statement that we will not really know how successful (or not) this draft was for 3 years. However, we should begin to get a sense of how these players will respond to the 49ers coaching staff and philosophies during this off season, OTAs, training camp, and the 2012 season.

IMO, if the draft makes the team better, then it is a good draft.

This is a great point and too often overlooked in terms of draft evaluation. From the viewpoint of Baalke and Harbaugh, they are looking at their draft picks in terms of what they can be with an entire off-season of great coaching. The vast majority of draftniks are not.

For example, they might agree with Maddog in that Stephen Hill is overall, a better athlete and even that he has more upside than AJ Jenkins. However, they also see that right now, Jenkins is a much more polished player than Hill and that after an off-season of NFL weight training and excellent coaching, AJ could help the team far more than any other wideout they could have gotten at pick number 30.....and who am I to disagree?

Another example is Looney. Right now, it appears he is a good road grader but that he is lacking in terms of his pass protection skills. Well, B and H probably look at him as having all of the athleticism necessary to be a very good OG in the NFL but simply needs some time to refine his pass protection techniques...and they feel they can help him do that.

That is exactly my point. If you are going to accurately analyze draft picks, you must include how the players will play after going through the offseason and being coached by the team's staff. Great points from you, too nw.

I think, along the lines of what you are saying above here, you also have to look at it in terms of where your current team is with regard to how long they have been functioning together in the same system etc. The team is relatively new in that regard.....one year of this offense....hence, not that far along. IE...don't need to draft a player who can do "x" well, if the team hasn't even got to "x" yet. You just need to draft player who can get to "x" at the same time as everybody else has been planned on being there. A timing thing...the idea being to get everybody to arrive at the same place and time you want them to.

Thanks for the effort sir. Deff disagree with your James grade doe