Coby Fleener - TE Stanford

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by hofer36:
not to be a kill joy, as there are alot of things I like about Fleener...saw him in the notre dame game put a dback on the ground with a fake outside and sharp cut inside, leading to an easy td catch.....in ways he seems like a bigger, faster ed mccaffrey.....

but looking at his career stats, he played 51 games and only had 96 catches...that is less than 2 a game...does that kind of production warrant a 1st rd pick?

Production in college is highly over rated. So many factors are involved in production, and what ultimately matters is the player's talent.

Take Vernon Davis, played in 37 games in college and had 83 recepitons, thats 2.2 receptions per game.

Edit: What I mean by production being over rated is you can't just look at a stat line and have a determination of a player's talent.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 5280High:
Fleener doesnt have a chance to fall to us now. Now if we can draft Hill, sign Robinson from Dal along with Royal from Denver... new wet dream scenario that gives us a nice blend of size, speed, and agility to fill out the WR corp.

Plus even though he may not have the speed of Fleener, "Novacek" could be the answer to our redzone & 3rd down woes if his hands are as sick as they have been reporting.

??? Bryan?

Konrad Rueland, that was his nickname during camp cause he caught everything in sight. Couldnt remember his actual name when I wrote the post so I just used his nickname on the team

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by hofer36:
not to be a kill joy, as there are alot of things I like about Fleener...saw him in the notre dame game put a dback on the ground with a fake outside and sharp cut inside, leading to an easy td catch.....in ways he seems like a bigger, faster ed mccaffrey.....

but looking at his career stats, he played 51 games and only had 96 catches...that is less than 2 a game...does that kind of production warrant a 1st rd pick?

Production in college is highly over rated. So many factors are involved in production, and what ultimately matters is the player's talent.

Take Vernon Davis, played in 37 games in college and had 83 recepitons, thats 2.2 receptions per game.

Edit: What I mean by production being over rated is you can't just look at a stat line and have a determination of a player's talent.

exactly, if production in college meant anything, crabtree would be all-world right now.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Fleener doesnt have a chance to fall to us now. Now if we can draft Hill, sign Robinson from Dal along with Royal from Denver... new wet dream scenario that gives us a nice blend of size, speed, and agility to fill out the WR corp.

Plus even though he may not have the speed of Fleener, "Novacek" could be the answer to our redzone & 3rd down woes if his hands are as sick as they have been reporting.

I know everyone is going to say that Fleener is rated higher or a better prospect, but last year Kyle Ruldoplh fell pretty late in the 1st round and he was the first TE taken. It will be close, but there is a chance that he falls to us. After we took Alex in 05, Aaron Rodgers was the next QB to be taken but there has to be a suitor as well. It's easy for analysts to say Rodgers should go in the 5-15 range, but none of those teams wanted a QB (he eventually went in the 20's). There are teams that can def. go for Fleener, but just like us, it's a matter of is that the need the team wants to address. Pitt seems like a place for him to go but what is the situation with Heath Miller or is that their main priority (just an example). It just depends on the team needs on how far they want to reach...

Originally posted by schmons:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by hofer36:
not to be a kill joy, as there are alot of things I like about Fleener...saw him in the notre dame game put a dback on the ground with a fake outside and sharp cut inside, leading to an easy td catch.....in ways he seems like a bigger, faster ed mccaffrey.....

but looking at his career stats, he played 51 games and only had 96 catches...that is less than 2 a game...does that kind of production warrant a 1st rd pick?

Production in college is highly over rated. So many factors are involved in production, and what ultimately matters is the player's talent.

Take Vernon Davis, played in 37 games in college and had 83 recepitons, thats 2.2 receptions per game.

Edit: What I mean by production being over rated is you can't just look at a stat line and have a determination of a player's talent.

exactly, if production in college meant anything, crabtree would be all-world right now.

College has an active game day roster of 65 dont they? Usually JH had 4 or 5 active TEs, plus his WRs it doesnt surprise me one bit to see an average of 2 catches a game. The ball is spread around a lot in JHs offense.

Originally posted by schmons:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by hofer36:
not to be a kill joy, as there are alot of things I like about Fleener...saw him in the notre dame game put a dback on the ground with a fake outside and sharp cut inside, leading to an easy td catch.....in ways he seems like a bigger, faster ed mccaffrey.....

but looking at his career stats, he played 51 games and only had 96 catches...that is less than 2 a game...does that kind of production warrant a 1st rd pick?

Production in college is highly over rated. So many factors are involved in production, and what ultimately matters is the player's talent.

Take Vernon Davis, played in 37 games in college and had 83 recepitons, thats 2.2 receptions per game.

Edit: What I mean by production being over rated is you can't just look at a stat line and have a determination of a player's talent.

exactly, if production in college meant anything, crabtree would be all-world right now.

production has to mean something---how much is debatable, but it is a factor

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by 5280High:
Fleener doesnt have a chance to fall to us now. Now if we can draft Hill, sign Robinson from Dal along with Royal from Denver... new wet dream scenario that gives us a nice blend of size, speed, and agility to fill out the WR corp.

Plus even though he may not have the speed of Fleener, "Novacek" could be the answer to our redzone & 3rd down woes if his hands are as sick as they have been reporting.

I know everyone is going to say that Fleener is rated higher or a better prospect, but last year Kyle Ruldoplh fell pretty late in the 1st round and he was the first TE taken. It will be close, but there is a chance that he falls to us. After we took Alex in 05, Aaron Rodgers was the next QB to be taken but there has to be a suitor as well. It's easy for analysts to say Rodgers should go in the 5-15 range, but none of those teams wanted a QB (he eventually went in the 20's). There are teams that can def. go for Fleener, but just like us, it's a matter of is that the need the team wants to address. Pitt seems like a place for him to go but what is the situation with Heath Miller or is that their main priority (just an example). It just depends on the team needs on how far they want to reach...

Very true, another thing that now helps us is that Dallas Clark is on the FA market.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Very true, another thing that now helps us is that Dallas Clark is on the FA market.

This. It would be nice if Charles hadn't gotten a flipping DUI but this may be beneficial in that a team will be less likely to reach for Fleener if they think they can get Charles in the late 2nd/early 3rd round now.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Very true, another thing that now helps us is that Dallas Clark is on the FA market.

This. It would be nice if Charles hadn't gotten a flipping DUI but this may be beneficial in that a team will be less likely to reach for Fleener if they think they can get Charles in the late 2nd/early 3rd round now.

I believe if we don't take him, the giants will. In Charles' case, each player is valued and rated differently by each individual team. He has yet to make predraft visits. Obviously this doesn't help, but who knows what happens with him.

Originally posted by 9erguy:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 5280High:
Very true, another thing that now helps us is that Dallas Clark is on the FA market.

This. It would be nice if Charles hadn't gotten a flipping DUI but this may be beneficial in that a team will be less likely to reach for Fleener if they think they can get Charles in the late 2nd/early 3rd round now.

I believe if we don't take him, the giants will. In Charles' case, each player is valued and rated differently by each individual team. He has yet to make predraft visits. Obviously this doesn't help, but who knows what happens with him.

I might be getting confused on the TE's but didn't Charles decide not to run again at his proday. I read somewhere that Charles decided to stick with his combine 40 time, which was slow... and it left the scouts wondering why??? Maybe it was a different TE but if it is, this guy might be sliding...

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I might be getting confused on the TE's but didn't Charles decide not to run again at his proday. I read somewhere that Charles decided to stick with his combine 40 time, which was slow... and it left the scouts wondering why??? Maybe it was a different TE but if it is, this guy might be sliding...

Charles didn't run at the combine. You're thinking of Dwayne Allen of Clemson.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I might be getting confused on the TE's but didn't Charles decide not to run again at his proday. I read somewhere that Charles decided to stick with his combine 40 time, which was slow... and it left the scouts wondering why??? Maybe it was a different TE but if it is, this guy might be sliding...

Charles didn't run at the combine. You're thinking of Dwayne Allen of Clemson.

Id take Dwayne Allen over any TE this year. Just not in the 1st rd which not 1 of this TEs are worth.

Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I might be getting confused on the TE's but didn't Charles decide not to run again at his proday. I read somewhere that Charles decided to stick with his combine 40 time, which was slow... and it left the scouts wondering why??? Maybe it was a different TE but if it is, this guy might be sliding...

Charles didn't run at the combine. You're thinking of Dwayne Allen of Clemson.

Id take Dwayne Allen over any TE this year. Just not in the 1st rd which not 1 of this TEs are worth.

Allen ran a 4.75 or 4.85 at the combine. Charles ran a 4.75 at his pro-day. If Fleener runs anything better then a 4.75 he will be #1 of the board due to that, plus his size, athleticism and catching ability, and his blocking even if it could use some "work".

Why would you take Allen over Fleener? If we draft a TE early this year it will be Fleener due to everything I just said plus familiarity with the system, if we draft one later it'll be another H-Back like DW is, someone like Drake Dunsmore or Evan Rodriguez.

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I might be getting confused on the TE's but didn't Charles decide not to run again at his proday. I read somewhere that Charles decided to stick with his combine 40 time, which was slow... and it left the scouts wondering why??? Maybe it was a different TE but if it is, this guy might be sliding...

Charles didn't run at the combine. You're thinking of Dwayne Allen of Clemson.

Id take Dwayne Allen over any TE this year. Just not in the 1st rd which not 1 of this TEs are worth.

Allen ran a 4.75 or 4.85 at the combine. Charles ran a 4.75 at his pro-day. If Fleener runs anything better then a 4.75 he will be #1 of the board due to that, plus his size, athleticism and catching ability, and his blocking even if it could use some "work".

Why would you take Allen over Fleener? If we draft a TE early this year it will be Fleener due to everything I just said plus familiarity with the system, if we draft one later it'll be another H-Back like DW is, someone like Drake Dunsmore or Evan Rodriguez.

I lived in the South East so Allen and Charles are who I saw alot of. Charles is just speed and blocking. Not great with running routes or having a good set of reliable hands. Allen tho is the full package imo. He has good TE speed, great hands, great routes,great strength, good blocking, and from all reports good character n team skills. Allen is a guy id compare to Gates while Charles is imo a poor mans Cooley. Fleener just havent seen enough honestly judge but from ive seen hes not a 1st rd TE. From what ive seen hes as fast as Allen but just doesnt have the strength to bust thru tackles that Allen does. Ill try n download some Stanford games but none of these TEs imo are 1st rd guys.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SFL49ER:

Originally posted by hofer36:
not to be a kill joy, as there are alot of things I like about Fleener...saw him in the notre dame game put a dback on the ground with a fake outside and sharp cut inside, leading to an easy td catch.....in ways he seems like a bigger, faster ed mccaffrey.....

but looking at his career stats, he played 51 games and only had 96 catches...that is less than 2 a game...does that kind of production warrant a 1st rd pick?

Production in college is highly over rated. So many factors are involved in production, and what ultimately matters is the player's talent.

Take Vernon Davis, played in 37 games in college and had 83 recepitons, thats 2.2 receptions per game.

Edit: What I mean by production being over rated is you can't just look at a stat line and have a determination of a player's talent.

You are correct, you have to look at the system they played in. Are they a product of the system. Ok St, all their wr have big numbers but haven't been gangbusters.