Nnamdi Asomugha was a 49er

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by gold49digger:
No offense, but I hope you are wrong on this one

Why would you want him to be wrong I know everyone thinks the guy sucks but if he were to play well as a starting fs it would benefit us in the factor that hes cheap, and it would give us a chance to get a rookie dialed in to his position and understand his responsabilities. Is that not a win win?

This is all if he does play well, and that is awfully risky looking at his history. If he does play well I will eat all the crow in the world. But for now, I will stand my ground and I think he is just here for ST and nothing else.

Originally posted by gold49digger:
This is all if he does play well, and that is awfully risky looking at his history. If he does play well I will eat all the crow in the world. But for now, I will stand my ground and I think he is just here for ST and nothing else.

OH I dont think hes here to be a starting fs really in any way i think hes just st also. But if oldninerdude is right and Dahl is able to plug into our defense play like a starter should im just saying thats a win win for the short term. So there's no reason to want him to be wrong. I would rather him be right and have a short term solution until our rookie is totally 100% prepped for the NFL then to have to throw the rookie out there. The only risk in the move would be if Vic, Jim & Ed Donatell over estimated his capabilities throughout the whole off season and put him in as the starter, which is extremely unlikely

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Whitner fit the scheme they've run the past two years. He's the "robber" responsible for the short part of the field just beyond the LOS and gives run support there. Trouble is, he's not very good at coverage, and horrible at coverinig TEs. Can he adapt to a new scheme? I have to think he's gonna get phased out unless he can improve his coverage abilithy--or grow six inches.

I also think Dahl starts the season at FS. He's got the size and speed, and if he gets into the film room and learns to read opposing QBs, who knows. He may be the short term answer.

lol. I completely understand.

But I did say "may be" and "sjhort term."

Dahl will be an All Pro, book it

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Whitner fit the scheme they've run the past two years. He's the "robber" responsible for the short part of the field just beyond the LOS and gives run support there. Trouble is, he's not very good at coverage, and horrible at coverinig TEs. Can he adapt to a new scheme? I have to think he's gonna get phased out unless he can improve his coverage abilithy--or grow six inches.

I also think Dahl starts the season at FS. He's got the size and speed, and if he gets into the film room and learns to read opposing QBs, who knows. He may be the short term answer.

Agree that Whitner fit the scheme these past two years but wonder if they might be moving away from the big hits as the NFL cracks down? I could see them doing for cover guys who can still tackle physically.

Dahl has the advantage, being the vet, but I hope they bring in someone who changes their minds!

Yeah, I think the scheme we've seen is Fangio emphasizing strengths and minimizing weaknesses. The defense was conservative, but this was due in large part to the luxury of working with a successful four man rush. Once Aldon and Justin were injured, there wasn't any way to cover the weakness schematically because you only end up exposing yourself further. You can't just expect a defense to overcome the loss of it's best two pass rushers, one of which is also arguably the best defender on the team period. There wasn't any depth because it was all on IR, too. Injuries to key players can completely sink a team. Remember when Bob Sanders got healthy just in time for the Colts playoff run and their defense did a 180 after being awful all season?

Well, injuries suck and it sucks that you can't have players of Justin and Aldon's caliber come off the bench. It just isn't realistic.

The 49ers secondary is better than they looked in the playoffs. Remember the season before that Crabtree was playing like a Pro Bowler after he got healthy around midway through the regular season. Then he dropped as many passes as he caught in the playoffs and many fans were talking about trading or even outright cutting him. Well, we saw how that turned out, yeah? Now people are freaking out that there won't be enough cap space to re-sign him. Don't even bother bringing up who was playing QB because it isn't relevant... Crabtree played great with both. Point is, don't let playoff failure cloud your judgement.

Just because I don't think the secondary is as bad as it looked in the playoffs doesn't mean that I don't think it can be improved. I think the emphasis that Baalke seems to be putting on larger more physical corners like Asomugha combined with letting Goldson walk shows that we are indeed looking to make a shift to a more aggressive coverage scheme. I have a feeling that this shift will ripple through the entire defense if it is successful.

Remember... Fangio is not a vanilla DC. Just because he hasn't run an aggressive defense doesn't mean that he can't... or hasn't. Stanford sent their ILBs on blitzes quite frequently, IIRC. Fangio has worked with some of the best 3-4 DCs in the business and is not lacking in experience or knowledge. I am confident that he is flexible schematically and things will change as the roster changes.

One thing I wonder is how much input Donatell has on the defensive scheme and if he is pushing for the switch to aggressive corners. We know Harbaugh set up the offensive coaching staff to focus on different things and then work together on game plans. I wonder if he did the same with the defense....

It'll be interesting to see how things play out. I agree that this draft should give us more insight into the plan. We won't know anything for sure until the regular season, though. Damn, I'm excited!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Agree that Whitner fit the scheme these past two years but wonder if they might be moving away from the big hits as the NFL cracks down? I could see them doing for cover guys who can still tackle physically.

Dahl has the advantage, being the vet, but I hope they bring in someone who changes their minds!

This is very likely true, both because of the rules changes and because it is essential to have good deep safety coverage with physical corner play.

My guess is that they go after a top cover safety early and another cover safety later, with one or both of them also having potential to be a big CB.

If they hit big on one of the safeties and they can start this year, I wonder if we don't see Whitner start playing in the box close to the line. Might as well put him in better position to play the run because it's his strength. Could blitz him more often that way, too. Highly unlikely, but I can dream, right?

^ ^ Good stuff, Wodwo... still one of my favorites here on the WZ.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
^ ^ Good stuff, Wodwo... still one of my favorites here on the WZ.

Thanks! Right back at you!

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
^ ^ Good stuff, Wodwo... still one of my favorites here on the WZ.

Thanks! Right back at you!

Agreed, great post and perspective and to your points...all of you including OND, check out Baalke's comments that seem to align with our thinking. Read into it as you will.

Interesting quotes from Baalke from the Home page articles.

"The teams that have been successful are drafting for need a year or two ahead of time," Baalke explained. ~ This could allude to drafting WR & CB's high.

"I wouldn't say we went out way to look for a corner that's 6-(foot)-1, 6-2," Baalke said. "It's a situation where stars aligned." ~ More proof (and all through FA) Baalke wants to get bigger, more physical at the CB position. OND and others have alluded to perhaps, Culliver and Nnamdi as the starting CB's with Brown/Rogers in the slot. I noted that against taller TE's, you could even match Nnamdi up on these guys in the RZ/EZ and move Brown/Rogers outside.

– Glenn Dorsey was the first player the 49ers signed in free agency last month, and his "versatility" along the defensive line is what Baalke praised most. "In our system he's going to be asked to do some similar things, and yet some different things. When we go into our 40 package, he'll be down inside. When we go into our 30 package he might be playing nose or might be playing some end. The good thing about him is his versatility. He can multi-align in our system. He can play 3 technique, he can play 1 technique, he can play the 0 and he can play the 5. And he can play the 4. So his ability to multi-align is advantageous to us." ~ Is this evidence we'll be looking for smaller DT's who can play both positions rather than a prototypical NT or 3-4 DE? Maybe a smaller guy like Carradine (276)?

– Charles Woodson, one of the first free agents the 49ers hosted, remains both unsigned and on the 49ers' radar. "We feel he can still play game. We'll continue to look at that and see how the draft goes. Charles is certainly somebody we're still interested in." ~ I have been saying all along, I would not be surprised if we signed him but that they may be waiting to see if they get their FS. Heck, even if they DO get their FS, they may want him to learn behind Woodson.

On the two S's ideally being interchangeable, "Would you like to have mirror-image guys so you can disguise maybe a little bit more creatively? Yeah, I think so…"

On this year's large pool, "Could you get the same player at 39 or 45 that you're going to get at 20? That's certainly a possibility."

Something to consider in this draft especially. "And that's the job of the coaches and that's also the job of the evaluators to make sure we're getting guys that are fitting our system. We talk about it all the time–you can't stick a square peg in a round hole, it doesn't fit (ahem, Manny Lawson, ahem)."

– The 49ers have 53 local prospects working out Wednesday, including

• Nate Montana

Four players attending the workout but not participating are:

• Oregon's Kiko Alonso (linebacker)
• Stanford's Zach Ertz (tight end) ~ it's safe to say TE will be a top pick IMHO
• Chase Thomas (linebacker)
• Levine Toilolo (tight end)

Wodwo--like your comment "Remember... Fangio is not a vanilla DC. Just because he hasn't run an aggressive defense doesn't mean that he can't... or hasn't. Stanford sent their ILBs on blitzes quite frequently, IIRC. Fangio has worked with some of the best 3-4 DCs in the business and is not lacking in experience or knowledge. I am confident that he is flexible schematically and things will change as the roster changes."

One of his first comments about Willis was that he was surprised he wasn't used to, or taught how, to blitz. They have been working on that and I think this may be the year of increased blitzing...or perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part. The front four were so effective that they really didn't need to last year but then when both Aldon and Justin were dinged it hurt not being able to use that option more often. If he has more confidence in the coverage he may call more MLB blitzing. Both Willis and Bowman are such phenomenal athletes I just see this as a natural goal.

NC--the comment about Dorsey's versatility leads me to believe they will draft a more true NT allowing Dorsey to float anywhere on the line.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
NC--the comment about Dorsey's versatility leads me to believe they will draft a more true NT allowing Dorsey to float anywhere on the line.

Yeah I guess his comment really could mean either or as well...we play some pretty powerful running teams (Hawks, Giants, TB, etc.) and these teams have run on us. Getting that two-gap NT will help in way more ways than people realize.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
NC--the comment about Dorsey's versatility leads me to believe they will draft a more true NT allowing Dorsey to float anywhere on the line.

Yeah I guess his comment really could mean either or as well...we play some pretty powerful running teams (Hawks, Giants, TB, etc.) and these teams have run on us. Getting that two-gap NT will help in way more ways than people realize.

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

I think Fangio inherited a roster with a bunch of talented players, but at the same time that means he may not be running the defense the way he would prefer to.

The signing of Dorsey and extension given to Ian Williams could indicate that he prefers versatility over traditional 3-4 DL prototypes. Baalke did say that Dorsey is capable of playing zero technique. He may be the starting NT. Perhaps they draft a player who is larger for obvious running downs. The only real wide body on defense right now is Lamar Divens. At the same time, I'm sure that all of the linemen are bigger than their listed weight. Justin Smith is closer to 300 lbs. than his listed 285. I bet McDonald is around 300, too. Dorsey is around 310, not 297. I sincerely doubt Ian Williams is only 305, I'd bet he's closer to 320 now.

It'll be interesting to see who gets plugged into the two vacant starting spots on defense. Imagine the defense with a NT that plays like Justin Smith.

Another Justin Smith? Yahoo!

First, I want to say that I like the Asomugha signing. I think he will be a nice acquisition.

However, in hindsight, does anyone think that we made a mistake with signing Asomugha and not making a play for Antoine Winfield? I realize Winfield is 4 years old, but his production has been phenomenal the last couple years (meanwhile, Asomugha has been terrible). Pro Football Focus had him rated as the top CB in the entire NFL last year, as well as a top 10 CB in 2011! This was due in large part to his great production against the run.

I mean, obviously Asomugha has potential... but even if he lives up to it, you'd figure he's going to be, at best, as good as Winfield.

You look at the numbers... Asomugha got nothing guaranteed, and has up to $3m in incentives. Here's what Winfield's contract looks like:

The rest of the money is tied up in a $500,000 roster bonus -- $31,250 for each game Winfield is active -- and $1 million in "not likely to be earned" incentives tied to playing time and interceptions.

That sets the maximum value of the deal at $3 million, roughly the same number the Minnesota Vikings floated to Winfield's agent when discussing a potential pay cut at the NFL combine in February.

So it's looking like $1M guaranteed, and will ultimately end up being around a 1 year, $2M contract.

The only downside to Winfield seems to be his age -- he's four years older than Asomugha. But, wouldn't you rather have an old, extremely productive player than a younger player who has struggled immensely the last two years, especially since they come at similar costs?

I hate to say this, but I think Seattle outplayed us on this one. Their eye for evaluating talent seems to be absolutely fantastic -- perhaps even surpassing ours.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Sorry if this has been discussed already... I hate these mega-threads that the Webzone has.