Does Aubrayo Franklin suck now?

Originally posted by PA49ersfan:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by JaaDogg49:
Another position we haven't fixed. I remember when we passed on Vince Wilfork, I was PISSSSSSSSSSSSED!!!! I say put in RJF cuz he looks like a baller a dump Fat Frank.

RJF is lighter than Franklin. He is close to a carbon copy. Both are stopgaps until a true NT arrives, or they switch to a 4-3.

This is another example of why the GM and the coach have to be on the same page AND the coach MUST adapt the system to match the talent. Right now, the 49er talent is best suited for a 4-3 but Nolan put the 3-4 in place. They lack a NT and an OLB that can rush the passer. They would be better in the 4-3 with Smith and McDonald coming off the edge and Sop and Franklin at DT. Willis would have more room because the guards would have to be occupied with the DTs thereby leaving Willis more room than he is getting now.

I would like to see the 4-3 at least tried sometimes. I think for sure it would help the run d. But I'm not sure it would help with pass rush at all. Our d-line ends and our outside backers, none rush the passer very good. Except smith.

That would be the big concern... can our DEs generate enough pass rush. I was never more impressed with Haralson than I was when he rushed from the 3 point stance at DE (4 man front) in the past for us. Can't say for sure how well Brooks or LaBoy would do with a hand in the dirt. Don't see why it would be any worse. Lawson could get sick pressure off the edge as a 4-3 OLB... not having to beat OTs every snap. Bowman is a far better 4-3 OLB option also. Justin needs to trim down a little, but he has the short area quickness to handle the 4-3 LE spot for sure.

(just my random thoughts)

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by PA49ersfan:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by JaaDogg49:
Another position we haven't fixed. I remember when we passed on Vince Wilfork, I was PISSSSSSSSSSSSED!!!! I say put in RJF cuz he looks like a baller a dump Fat Frank.

RJF is lighter than Franklin. He is close to a carbon copy. Both are stopgaps until a true NT arrives, or they switch to a 4-3.

This is another example of why the GM and the coach have to be on the same page AND the coach MUST adapt the system to match the talent. Right now, the 49er talent is best suited for a 4-3 but Nolan put the 3-4 in place. They lack a NT and an OLB that can rush the passer. They would be better in the 4-3 with Smith and McDonald coming off the edge and Sop and Franklin at DT. Willis would have more room because the guards would have to be occupied with the DTs thereby leaving Willis more room than he is getting now.

I would like to see the 4-3 at least tried sometimes. I think for sure it would help the run d. But I'm not sure it would help with pass rush at all. Our d-line ends and our outside backers, none rush the passer very good. Except smith.

That would be the big concern... can our DEs generate enough pass rush. I was never more impressed with Haralson than I was when he rushed from the 3 point stance at DE (4 man front) in the past for us. Can't say for sure how well Brooks or LaBoy would do with a hand in the dirt. Don't see why it would be any worse. Lawson could get sick pressure off the edge as a 4-3 OLB... not having to beat OTs every snap. Bowman is a far better 4-3 OLB option also. Justin needs to trim down a little, but he has the short area quickness to handle the 4-3 LE spot for sure.

(just my random thoughts)

McDonald is key, IMO. He is out of position as a DE in 3-4. He isn't big enough even at 290. He has outstanding quickness off the LOS. I could see him being a very good pass rusher at 275 or 280. At this time of the season, it is not hard for a player to drop 10 pounds without losing strength. Same goes for Smith although he is already our best pressure guy.

As you noted above, I believe Lawson would finally come into the promise he was drafted for if he could blitz off the edge and only have to beat the TE or blocking back.

Until this team drafts that stud two-gap 340 pound NT, I don't see the 3-4 as the answer. It would be easier to ease into a 4-3 given current personnel.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by PA49ersfan:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by JaaDogg49:
Another position we haven't fixed. I remember when we passed on Vince Wilfork, I was PISSSSSSSSSSSSED!!!! I say put in RJF cuz he looks like a baller a dump Fat Frank.

RJF is lighter than Franklin. He is close to a carbon copy. Both are stopgaps until a true NT arrives, or they switch to a 4-3.

This is another example of why the GM and the coach have to be on the same page AND the coach MUST adapt the system to match the talent. Right now, the 49er talent is best suited for a 4-3 but Nolan put the 3-4 in place. They lack a NT and an OLB that can rush the passer. They would be better in the 4-3 with Smith and McDonald coming off the edge and Sop and Franklin at DT. Willis would have more room because the guards would have to be occupied with the DTs thereby leaving Willis more room than he is getting now.

I would like to see the 4-3 at least tried sometimes. I think for sure it would help the run d. But I'm not sure it would help with pass rush at all. Our d-line ends and our outside backers, none rush the passer very good. Except smith.

That would be the big concern... can our DEs generate enough pass rush. I was never more impressed with Haralson than I was when he rushed from the 3 point stance at DE (4 man front) in the past for us. Can't say for sure how well Brooks or LaBoy would do with a hand in the dirt. Don't see why it would be any worse. Lawson could get sick pressure off the edge as a 4-3 OLB... not having to beat OTs every snap. Bowman is a far better 4-3 OLB option also. Justin needs to trim down a little, but he has the short area quickness to handle the 4-3 LE spot for sure.

(just my random thoughts)

McDonald is key, IMO. He is out of position as a DE in 3-4. He isn't big enough even at 290. He has outstanding quickness off the LOS. I could see him being a very good pass rusher at 275 or 280. At this time of the season, it is not hard for a player to drop 10 pounds without losing strength. Same goes for Smith although he is already our best pressure guy.

As you noted above, I believe Lawson would finally come into the promise he was drafted for if he could blitz off the edge and only have to beat the TE or blocking back.

Until this team drafts that stud two-gap 340 pound NT, I don't see the 3-4 as the answer. It would be easier to ease into a 4-3 given current personnel.

Yes, I agree on everything you stated. At first, I thought he could play on regular downs as a rotating DT. At 290, he's probably a bit light in the arse for that. RayMac was in the 270-ish range when we drafted him, as I recall. I also remember he was a versatile player at Florida with the DE/DT positions. You're right though... his best play would be as a 275 lb DE for us.

I hope he chooses to remain in SF, as I think he's on his final year? Anyway, he is but a piece of the puzzle. Our decision for a 4-3 is all about better fit for everyone.

- better protection for Willis... most important.
- better for Lawson... he's not ever gonna beat OTs often.
- better for our DL, as we really have no stud 3-4 NT or rush OLBs.
- better use of Bowman

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by PA49ersfan:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by JaaDogg49:
Another position we haven't fixed. I remember when we passed on Vince Wilfork, I was PISSSSSSSSSSSSED!!!! I say put in RJF cuz he looks like a baller a dump Fat Frank.

RJF is lighter than Franklin. He is close to a carbon copy. Both are stopgaps until a true NT arrives, or they switch to a 4-3.

This is another example of why the GM and the coach have to be on the same page AND the coach MUST adapt the system to match the talent. Right now, the 49er talent is best suited for a 4-3 but Nolan put the 3-4 in place. They lack a NT and an OLB that can rush the passer. They would be better in the 4-3 with Smith and McDonald coming off the edge and Sop and Franklin at DT. Willis would have more room because the guards would have to be occupied with the DTs thereby leaving Willis more room than he is getting now.

I would like to see the 4-3 at least tried sometimes. I think for sure it would help the run d. But I'm not sure it would help with pass rush at all. Our d-line ends and our outside backers, none rush the passer very good. Except smith.

That would be the big concern... can our DEs generate enough pass rush. I was never more impressed with Haralson than I was when he rushed from the 3 point stance at DE (4 man front) in the past for us. Can't say for sure how well Brooks or LaBoy would do with a hand in the dirt. Don't see why it would be any worse. Lawson could get sick pressure off the edge as a 4-3 OLB... not having to beat OTs every snap. Bowman is a far better 4-3 OLB option also. Justin needs to trim down a little, but he has the short area quickness to handle the 4-3 LE spot for sure.

(just my random thoughts)

McDonald is key, IMO. He is out of position as a DE in 3-4. He isn't big enough even at 290. He has outstanding quickness off the LOS. I could see him being a very good pass rusher at 275 or 280. At this time of the season, it is not hard for a player to drop 10 pounds without losing strength. Same goes for Smith although he is already our best pressure guy.

As you noted above, I believe Lawson would finally come into the promise he was drafted for if he could blitz off the edge and only have to beat the TE or blocking back.

Until this team drafts that stud two-gap 340 pound NT, I don't see the 3-4 as the answer. It would be easier to ease into a 4-3 given current personnel.

Yes, I agree on everything you stated. At first, I thought he could play on regular downs as a rotating DT. At 290, he's probably a bit light in the arse for that. RayMac was in the 270-ish range when we drafted him, as I recall. I also remember he was a versatile player at Florida with the DE/DT positions. You're right though... his best play would be as a 275 lb DE for us.

I hope he chooses to remain in SF, as I think he's on his final year? Anyway, he is but a piece of the puzzle. Our decision for a 4-3 is all about better fit for everyone.

- better protection for Willis... most important.
- better for Lawson... he's not ever gonna beat OTs often.
- better for our DL, as we really have no stud 3-4 NT or rush OLBs.
- better use of Bowman

I'm starting to lean towards a 4-3 also. The past couple of seasons, I've been completely against it. This year, however, things just don't look the same. As pointed out, teams are getting blockers on Willis more often. The problem is, IMO, the Niners still won't get much of a pass rush with this formation.

Originally posted by AKfanster:

I'm starting to lean towards a 4-3 also. The past couple of seasons, I've been completely against it. This year, however, things just don't look the same. As pointed out, teams are getting blockers on Willis more often. The problem is, IMO, the Niners still won't get much of a pass rush with this formation.

Yes, I have the same fear you d on this, but I'm asking myself whether it can really get worse. It's got to help Willis and our run D, at the very least. I never played in the trenches, but if I were a DE/hybrid LB, I like the feeling of that push off the dirt in a 3 point stance. I think Haralson does his best this way, and can't see why it would decrease the efforts of Brooks/LaBoy. None of these 3 play well in space or coverage anyway.

Justin is Justin, so I'm not worried much about him... but it's the others we'd need help from at DE.

Hmmmm, I'm a huge fan of real 3-4 defenses but I hate our vanilla 3-4. That said, a 4-3 may be the best option.

My front four would be: Brooks - Franklin - McDonald - Smith

Most DE's in the 4-3 are in the 260-280 range so Brooks would be ideal. He already rushes off the LDE position anyhow. Smith would stay dominant on this side (freeing up Brooks) b/c teams may not be able to double team him. Franklin would be your "stout" guy in the middle who shoots the A gap and forces misdirections from the RB. And McDonald would be your inside "BY-like" pass rusher lightning quick off the snap and most importantly, collapsing the pocket and not allowing QB's to step up anymore. Haralson/LaBoy can also spell at DE's. Haralson's best game was at the SAM (LDE).

My 3 LBers would be: Spikes/Lawson - Willis - Bowman

Lawson just seems slow as hell to me this year and Spikes is hanging on to his job for dear life. But this formation would give Lawson the best chance to succeed IMHO. Willis would be "free" again and Bowman would be allowed to grow. The four men up front would allow these "athletes" to just "seek and destroy."

Secondary: Time to cut Brown, Brock is gone (bummer Briggs) so we need to try out the next Bly. The rest is set and make it known that Smith is pushing Goldson.

This would allow Manusky to call his vanilla games b/c essentially, everyone's roles are defined already:
DE's = rush the passer, set the edge en route to the QB (TFL's)
SAM = cover TE's and RB's out of the backfield and against screens and chase the RB
MIKE = total freedom (your playmaker)

Coaching - Emphasis on team-tackling, fundamentals and forcing TO's and avoiding bone-headed plays.

[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 14, 2010 at 19:34:33 ]

I dont think he is that bad but he better improve considering how much we are paying him