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Josh Hamilton

Originally posted by niners4lyfe:
*tears of joy.

Nobody has ever made this much sense on this forum before that I have seen. The fact that Barry was an "a*****e" to the media will be his undoing; however, the media has a way to be "bullies" themselves. (His dad was a victim in that) In that case, I don't care he's an a*****e. No one is talking about Gagne's performance in 04 when he "stole" the cy young award from Schmidt. How about A-Rod? Will he a first ballot hall-of-famer?


Barry is not alone. Clemens may or may not make the HOF even though he was perhaps the best pitcher in the past 25 years. Mark McGwire doesnt get a sniff from the HOF voters even though he is 10th All Time in HRs. Same with Raphael Palmeiro who has 569 Hrs and top 20 all time in HRs and RBI. I think its funny when people say that Barry has been singled out. No, he hasnt. Any big time star during that time that obviously benefited from roids has been hurt in public perception, media perception, and ultimately HOF voting.

Barry was an ass and that may cost him HOF votes but he would be a first ballot HOF for sure without the roids baggage. It wouldnt matter how many people he pissed off.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
99.. most of what you say is certainly true. Bonds was a HOF player before he got on roids. He did have amazing bat speed and an incredible eye. He also was a gold glove fielder and an amazing base stealer in his earlier years. He also was not alone in taking roids. That is obvious.

However, I cant feel sorry for Barry. He used PEDs and there is no way he has the MLB records for career or single season HRs without them. His greatest seasons were at an age when he should have been declining. He knew what the roids were doing for him and he was rewarded greatly for it.

I dont think his entire career should be tainted at all and I do think he should be in the HOF. However, his HR records will always be tainted and rightfully so.

I agree that his 73 hr season wasnt done naturally, but neither was McGwire's 70 and 65 years, or Sosa's 66, 64, 63 years. They played in an era, and while they all cheated, I just dont think its as simple as grabbing the whiteout. The year Bonds broken the record, 41 players hit over 30 hr, and 12 hit over 40. It was a culture, and just how the game was at the time.

Baseball has never been about conformity. 2 different games between leagues, different stadium dimesions, different sized mounds, different era's that excluded black and latin players, the dead ball era, etc. 21 of the top 30 RBI seasons ever came in an 18 year window from 1921-38, including Hack Wilson's unbreakable record of 191.

I think baseball just needed to fix the steroid issue, which was more a detriment to a players long term health than the game itself, and now embrace the era as part of history. All this talk about who cheated, who should have what number of this or that, etc, is all going to be tainted by the bias of how each player was percieved. Notice that nobody has ever talked about taking Gagne's saves streak record away.

Fans are just doing themselves a disservice by buying into the idea that this recent era is a joke.
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
99.. most of what you say is certainly true. Bonds was a HOF player before he got on roids. He did have amazing bat speed and an incredible eye. He also was a gold glove fielder and an amazing base stealer in his earlier years. He also was not alone in taking roids. That is obvious.

However, I cant feel sorry for Barry. He used PEDs and there is no way he has the MLB records for career or single season HRs without them. His greatest seasons were at an age when he should have been declining. He knew what the roids were doing for him and he was rewarded greatly for it.

I dont think his entire career should be tainted at all and I do think he should be in the HOF. However, his HR records will always be tainted and rightfully so.

I agree that his 73 hr season wasnt done naturally, but neither was McGwire's 70 and 65 years, or Sosa's 66, 64, 63 years. They played in an era, and while they all cheated, I just dont think its as simple as grabbing the whiteout. The year Bonds broken the record, 41 players hit over 30 hr, and 12 hit over 40. It was a culture, and just how the game was at the time.

Baseball has never been about conformity. 2 different games between leagues, different stadium dimesions, different sized mounds, different era's that excluded black and latin players, the dead ball era, etc. 21 of the top 30 RBI seasons ever came in an 18 year window from 1921-38, including Hack Wilson's unbreakable record of 191.

I think baseball just needed to fix the steroid issue, which was more a detriment to a players long term health than the game itself, and now embrace the era as part of history. All this talk about who cheated, who should have what number of this or that, etc, is all going to be tainted by the bias of how each player was percieved. Notice that nobody has ever talked about taking Gagne's saves streak record away.

Fans are just doing themselves a disservice by buying into the idea that this recent era is a joke.


I think you are right . My points have always been: 1) Bonds was a great player that became the best ever because of steroids and that its hard to take his HR records seriously because of them, 2) Bonds is NOT singled out anymore than McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, and Clemens have been. These were all HOF candidates based on numbers that are being shunned now. 3) Almost every hitting record during the roid era is pretty much tainted.

Giants fans still consider Bonds a God and some even to this day dont think he took roids. To me that is laughable. It really is too bad that he didnt play the game just on his ability alone. That was enough to make him great.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I think you are right . My points have always been: 1) Bonds was a great player that became the best ever because of steroids and that its hard to take his HR records seriously because of them, 2) Bonds is NOT singled out anymore than McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, and Clemens have been. These were all HOF candidates based on numbers that are being shunned now. 3) Almost every hitting record during the roid era is pretty much tainted.

Giants fans still consider Bonds a God and some even to this day dont think he took roids. To me that is laughable. It really is too bad that he didnt play the game just on his ability alone. That was enough to make him great.

I'm a Giant fan and I don't think he is a God, and I think he took roids. Bonds was a great player who got caught up in the era, and I consider all of his HR records to be tainted. But it was damn fun to watch. Amazing to see how the ball would jump off of his bat and then travel so far...really no way to describe it unless you see it in person.
Originally posted by notsoempty86:
He really isn't a good dude. He is super arrogant, blames other people and makes excuses (injury at home plate last year). I live in Dallas, and even people here are seeing through his act. He is a hell of a baseball player, but certainly not any kind of role model. Hell, he cheated on his wife with some ho in the bathroom of a bar here in town, then jumped the fence behind the bar to avoid attention.

Only the Rangers can sign him. Would not touch him with a 10 foot pole as a Giant fan.
Originally posted by HardEdge:
Originally posted by notsoempty86:
He really isn't a good dude. He is super arrogant, blames other people and makes excuses (injury at home plate last year). I live in Dallas, and even people here are seeing through his act. He is a hell of a baseball player, but certainly not any kind of role model. Hell, he cheated on his wife with some ho in the bathroom of a bar here in town, then jumped the fence behind the bar to avoid attention.

Like a bawsss.
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by HardEdge:
Originally posted by notsoempty86:
He really isn't a good dude. He is super arrogant, blames other people and makes excuses (injury at home plate last year). I live in Dallas, and even people here are seeing through his act. He is a hell of a baseball player, but certainly not any kind of role model. Hell, he cheated on his wife with some ho in the bathroom of a bar here in town, then jumped the fence behind the bar to avoid attention.

Like a bawsss.

Have you seen his wife?


Would cheat