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2013 San Francisco Giants Thread

Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Sabean needs to be smart though since they still have a limited budget. Signing Pagan to 4 years , Scutaro to 3 years, and Affeldt to 3 years were all NOT smart. In each case they were given too many years. I would do my best to move all of them if possible although its probably impossible now without eating money.

Yea, all of them were given too many years and 2 of them were overpaid IMO.

I didn't want Pagan because we had Blanco and Gary Browns waiting in the wings (before he was labeled a bust)
I didn't Affeldt because we had lopez and Mijares (sp?) as lefties in the pen.
I wanted Scutaro and I didn't mind that he was overpaid OR given an extra year. We didn't have anyone else who could step in.

So I agree with you that Sabes needs to be more fiscal reponsible. I just hope our pitching in the system can develop.

Maybe they have more money to spend than is reported (more flexible budget)...and maybe they don't mind giving out those long-term deals to older players that have helped win championships knowing they can always release them in their final year if they're not producing. Maybe they see that last year as a bonus of sorts....who knows???? So long as it doesn't preclude them from spending on guys that can help win today, I have no issue with over-paying for guys like that.
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.
damn. i'll be pretty bummed if we don't re-sign HP.
Originally posted by boast:
damn. i'll be pretty bummed if we don't re-sign HP.

My guess is that he will resign with the Giants but it wont be cheap.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

I've always been a HUGE fan of Choo, but if he's the big name hitter on the market, I'd stay away cause he'll likely get overpaid.
Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

I've always been a HUGE fan of Choo, but if he's the big name hitter on the market, I'd stay away cause he'll likely get overpaid.

No doubt. He is going to get a big pay day.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

As long as they don't hand out the FA starting pitchers anything more than two years, I would be in, since it would take about two more years for our next crop of pitching prospects to be MLB ready.

Should the Giants fall out of the race any further in the next 10 games, they need to trade Lincecum, Lopez, Pence, and Gaudin and get what ever they can since they are expiring contracts. The Giants could always sign these players again in FA should the dollars and years make sense.

I still think the Giants could get a decent return from the Detroit Tigers if Lincecum, Lopez, and Gaudin were packaged together.

Detroit could use Lincecum as the closer, Lopez as a lefty specialist, and Gaudin as a long relief man to give a few innings should one of the Detroit starters have a problem getting hitters out in a particular game.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

The good thing is, they've proven they can win a title with average-to-mediocre talent in the OF so long as their pitching is on point. In fact, Ellsbury (29) might be the perfect guy....high OBP with solid defensive skills, excellent base-stealer and proven post-season production. In fact, he might be an even better leadoff hitter than Pagan.
Originally posted by sfgiantdave:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

As long as they don't hand out the FA starting pitchers anything more than two years, I would be in, since it would take about two more years for our next crop of pitching prospects to be MLB ready.

Should the Giants fall out of the race any further in the next 10 games, they need to trade Lincecum, Lopez, Pence, and Gaudin and get what ever they can since they are expiring contracts. The Giants could always sign these players again in FA should the dollars and years make sense.

I still think the Giants could get a decent return from the Detroit Tigers if Lincecum, Lopez, and Gaudin were packaged together.

Detroit could use Lincecum as the closer, Lopez as a lefty specialist, and Gaudin as a long relief man to give a few innings should one of the Detroit starters have a problem getting hitters out in a particular game.

Not sure anyone would quite trust Timmy as a closer when he has never done it. Well.. giving up big time talent for him anyway. But, I agree that it would make sense to deal all of them in 2-3 weeks if they fall way back in the race.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

The good thing is, they've proven they can win a title with average-to-mediocre talent in the OF so long as their pitching is on point. In fact, Ellsbury (29) might be the perfect guy....high OBP with solid defensive skills, excellent base-stealer and proven post-season production. In fact, he might be an even better leadoff hitter than Pagan.

He would be a much better lead off man than Pagan. I would be happy with moving to Pagan in LF if they got Ellsbury. Just dont know if they would really go spend the money to sign both Ellsbury and Pence. Highly doubt it.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

The good thing is, they've proven they can win a title with average-to-mediocre talent in the OF so long as their pitching is on point. In fact, Ellsbury (29) might be the perfect guy....high OBP with solid defensive skills, excellent base-stealer and proven post-season production. In fact, he might be an even better leadoff hitter than Pagan.

He would be a much better lead off man than Pagan. I would be happy with moving to Pagan in LF if they got Ellsbury. Just dont know if they would really go spend the money to sign both Ellsbury and Pence. Highly doubt it.

That would be a pretty expensive outfield, but it would also be pretty potent. They could probably sign both for a little more than what Timmy was paid this year ($22M). Pence seems to like it here so he might be persuaded to sign for about $10-$12M per and Ellsbury (making $9M right now) could command $11-$13M per for the right club. Say Pence signs for $11M and Ellsbury for $12M, that's just $1M more than what we paid Lincecum.

You would still have room to sign a quality starter for the money Zito would've been paid ($11-12M minus his buyout) before you even get into any annual payroll increase. The Brewers were able to sign Kyle Lohse for $11M per (3/33M), and he's exactly the kind of guy that would fit nicely in our rotation.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jul 17, 2013 at 1:35 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Rubberneck36:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
If they're going to stay viable, they're going to have to spend a little more now given the Dodgers crazy/non-existent budget. That's just a fact of life in the NL West now...it's an arms race!

this! And they better not give me no small market b******t. We sell that place out like crazy, it is or almost is about to be paid off, Zito's money is coming off the books, and we just won two titles. They have the cash!

Not to mention that Timmy's 20M per year will be off the books too. He wont get anything close to that if he does come back. One big problem is the quality of the 2014 FA pitchers. I wouldnt put any of them in the 1-2 type class. There are a bunch of middle to back end guys who will likely get way overpaid because of the scarcity of pitching. That is why I really would like to trade for Bud Norris who has a cheap contract.

As for hitters, its pretty weak too. Choo, Ellsbury, Pence, and Cruz are the best out there and I wouldnt touch Nelson Cruz because of the PEDs.

Overall, its a very weak FA class and I would not expect a big splash.

The good thing is, they've proven they can win a title with average-to-mediocre talent in the OF so long as their pitching is on point. In fact, Ellsbury (29) might be the perfect guy....high OBP with solid defensive skills, excellent base-stealer and proven post-season production. In fact, he might be an even better leadoff hitter than Pagan.

He would be a much better lead off man than Pagan. I would be happy with moving to Pagan in LF if they got Ellsbury. Just dont know if they would really go spend the money to sign both Ellsbury and Pence. Highly doubt it.

That would be a pretty expensive outfield, but it would also be pretty potent. They could probably sign both for a little more than what Timmy was paid this year ($22M). Pence seems to like it here so he might be persuaded to sign for about $10-$12M per and Ellsbury (making $9M right now) could command $11-$13M per for the right club. Say Pence signs for $11M and Ellsbury for $12M, that's just $1M more than what we paid Lincecum.

You would still have room to sign a quality starter for the money Zito would've been paid ($11-12M) before you even get into any annual payroll increase.

1) Ellsbury
2) Pagan
3) Posey
4) IN Shape Panda
5) Pence
6) Belt
7) Scutaro
8) Crawford

Bumgarner
Cain
Norris
Vogelsong or a FA
Gaudin ( if he had a good 2nd half)

With the depth in young pitching I would trade anyone other than Crick, Stratton for Norris. Escobar, Peguero, and Kickham for Bud. :) Im sure they would want more.
^^ Looks good to me. We really can't overestimate how much more payroll flexibility we'll have once Tim/Zito leave. Especially when you consider we should be able to get comparable production (per person) for less than half of what they were paid. Just using the $33M from their departed salaries should net us at least 3 quality players.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jul 17, 2013 at 2:13 PM ]
Hey Ghost. Those youngsters are making fun of us old guys in the Parking Lot. They need to show us old Ball Dudes some respect.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Hey Ghost. Those youngsters are making fun of us old guys in the Parking Lot. They need to show us old Ball Dudes some respect.

lol not making fun of you guys (well, maybe except for John cuz he rarely makes an appearance in the PL), but we just didn't know Ghost is as old as he is.
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