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The Soccer Thread 11/12

  • VDSF
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,419
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
I guess I don't understand the delegation process in Argentina

I saw River Plate will have to play a game vs one of the top teams from the B league to see who will get to be in the top league and I ASSUMED they were one of the 3 worst teams in the league.

However I then looked at the standings just to see how bad they had been and they were just middle of the pack both in the Apertura and Clausura so why the hell are they possible getting sent down?

By the way this is a BIG deal, River Plate is one of the most historic soccer clubs of all time, they have racked up many championships including a world title. And I ain't even a fan, I'm a Boca Jrs. fan, and I know we're supposed to wish the worst on our rivals but them doing THIS BAD is shocking it's the equivalent of Barca/Juventus/Man U finishing bottom 3 and getting sent down to 2nd division leagues.

I know, that would NEVER happen (juve for other reasons), that's why it's so shocking that River Plate is on the edge of falling that bad

I'm a BOCA JUNIORS fan too!!!!

Vamo Boca Carajo!!!!

Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!!

thank you for giving me absolutely ZERO answer to my question

River Plate face playoff torture as 2011 relegation battle is defined in Argentina

Argentine giant River Plate must face the agony of a two-legged playoff to avoid being relegated for the first time in its history, as a defeat against Lanus condemned it to the promocion in a thrilling finish to the 2010-11 Primera Division relegation battle.

With six teams directly fighting either to escape the direct drop or a playoff against a Nacional B side, no fewer than five games were scheduled concurrently on Saturday afternoon, including the Millo's crucial home clash against the Clausura's second-placed outfit Lanus.

The hosts went down early to a Silvio Romero goal, but saw their hopes raised when Erik Lamela equalized from close with a scruffy finish that nevertheless raised spirits in the Monumental. River subsequently pushed forward, but despite several decent chances could not find the winner. In the 93rd minute, Leandro Diaz sealed the Nunez club's fate with a delightful curling shot, which eluded Juan Pablo Carrizo to give Lanus a 2-1 victory.

River will move on to a match against Cordoba club Belgrano in the promocion, with the winner over two legs earning the right to play Primera soccer next year.

Playoff rivals Olimpo, meanwhile, ensured top-flight football next season by downing Quilmes 1-0 away from home, at the same time condemning Ricardo Caruso Lombardi's side to direct relegation. Tigre also celebrated the preservation of its Primera status, drawing 1-1 with Argentinos Juniors after falling behind to an early strike.

The other two matches played on Saturday afternoon would prove to be indecisive in determining who would join Quilmes in the Nacional B. Huracan had a torrid match at the hands of former coach and lifelong fan Antonio Mohamed; the Independiente boss appeared to have sent his idols down after handing out a fearsome 5-1 thrashing in Avellaneda, and was visibly distraught. The defeat meant that Gimnasia could book a place in the promocion with victory against Boca Juniors, and appeared to have reached its goal.


Link


Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!

I already knew ^^^ THAT.

but look at the Apertura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/seasonType/1/primera-division-de-argentina

now look at the Clausura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/primera-division-de-argentina

River's final position in both of those is FOURTH and 9th, so how come they are now in danger of being sent to the B league?

Thats why its called ''promicion'' or promotion in our terms, kinda like triple-a baseball player going to the mlb and sending your not so good player down from the majors and try to fight back for a spot in the majors, well in this case its for the team if im making any sense?, rosario central was in the bigs a year ago or so and they got sent down cause they were not performing ''A'' style soccer or close to the standings, it happens after every tournament Clausura/Apertura.
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
I guess I don't understand the delegation process in Argentina

I saw River Plate will have to play a game vs one of the top teams from the B league to see who will get to be in the top league and I ASSUMED they were one of the 3 worst teams in the league.

However I then looked at the standings just to see how bad they had been and they were just middle of the pack both in the Apertura and Clausura so why the hell are they possible getting sent down?

By the way this is a BIG deal, River Plate is one of the most historic soccer clubs of all time, they have racked up many championships including a world title. And I ain't even a fan, I'm a Boca Jrs. fan, and I know we're supposed to wish the worst on our rivals but them doing THIS BAD is shocking it's the equivalent of Barca/Juventus/Man U finishing bottom 3 and getting sent down to 2nd division leagues.

I know, that would NEVER happen (juve for other reasons), that's why it's so shocking that River Plate is on the edge of falling that bad

I'm a BOCA JUNIORS fan too!!!!

Vamo Boca Carajo!!!!

Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!!

thank you for giving me absolutely ZERO answer to my question

River Plate face playoff torture as 2011 relegation battle is defined in Argentina

Argentine giant River Plate must face the agony of a two-legged playoff to avoid being relegated for the first time in its history, as a defeat against Lanus condemned it to the promocion in a thrilling finish to the 2010-11 Primera Division relegation battle.

With six teams directly fighting either to escape the direct drop or a playoff against a Nacional B side, no fewer than five games were scheduled concurrently on Saturday afternoon, including the Millo's crucial home clash against the Clausura's second-placed outfit Lanus.

The hosts went down early to a Silvio Romero goal, but saw their hopes raised when Erik Lamela equalized from close with a scruffy finish that nevertheless raised spirits in the Monumental. River subsequently pushed forward, but despite several decent chances could not find the winner. In the 93rd minute, Leandro Diaz sealed the Nunez club's fate with a delightful curling shot, which eluded Juan Pablo Carrizo to give Lanus a 2-1 victory.

River will move on to a match against Cordoba club Belgrano in the promocion, with the winner over two legs earning the right to play Primera soccer next year.

Playoff rivals Olimpo, meanwhile, ensured top-flight football next season by downing Quilmes 1-0 away from home, at the same time condemning Ricardo Caruso Lombardi's side to direct relegation. Tigre also celebrated the preservation of its Primera status, drawing 1-1 with Argentinos Juniors after falling behind to an early strike.

The other two matches played on Saturday afternoon would prove to be indecisive in determining who would join Quilmes in the Nacional B. Huracan had a torrid match at the hands of former coach and lifelong fan Antonio Mohamed; the Independiente boss appeared to have sent his idols down after handing out a fearsome 5-1 thrashing in Avellaneda, and was visibly distraught. The defeat meant that Gimnasia could book a place in the promocion with victory against Boca Juniors, and appeared to have reached its goal.


Link


Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!

I already knew ^^^ THAT.

but look at the Apertura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/seasonType/1/primera-division-de-argentina

now look at the Clausura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/primera-division-de-argentina

River's final position in both of those is FOURTH and 9th, so how come they are now in danger of being sent to the B league?

Thats why its called ''promicion'' or promotion in our terms, kinda like triple-a baseball player going to the mlb and sending your not so good player down from the majors and try to fight back for a spot in the majors, well in this case its for the team if im making any sense?, rosario central was in the bigs a year ago or so and they got sent down cause they were not performing ''A'' style soccer or close to the standings, it happens after every tournament Clausura/Apertura.

nowai
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
I guess I don't understand the delegation process in Argentina

I saw River Plate will have to play a game vs one of the top teams from the B league to see who will get to be in the top league and I ASSUMED they were one of the 3 worst teams in the league.

However I then looked at the standings just to see how bad they had been and they were just middle of the pack both in the Apertura and Clausura so why the hell are they possible getting sent down?

By the way this is a BIG deal, River Plate is one of the most historic soccer clubs of all time, they have racked up many championships including a world title. And I ain't even a fan, I'm a Boca Jrs. fan, and I know we're supposed to wish the worst on our rivals but them doing THIS BAD is shocking it's the equivalent of Barca/Juventus/Man U finishing bottom 3 and getting sent down to 2nd division leagues.

I know, that would NEVER happen (juve for other reasons), that's why it's so shocking that River Plate is on the edge of falling that bad

I'm a BOCA JUNIORS fan too!!!!

Vamo Boca Carajo!!!!

Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!!

thank you for giving me absolutely ZERO answer to my question

River Plate face playoff torture as 2011 relegation battle is defined in Argentina

Argentine giant River Plate must face the agony of a two-legged playoff to avoid being relegated for the first time in its history, as a defeat against Lanus condemned it to the promocion in a thrilling finish to the 2010-11 Primera Division relegation battle.

With six teams directly fighting either to escape the direct drop or a playoff against a Nacional B side, no fewer than five games were scheduled concurrently on Saturday afternoon, including the Millo's crucial home clash against the Clausura's second-placed outfit Lanus.

The hosts went down early to a Silvio Romero goal, but saw their hopes raised when Erik Lamela equalized from close with a scruffy finish that nevertheless raised spirits in the Monumental. River subsequently pushed forward, but despite several decent chances could not find the winner. In the 93rd minute, Leandro Diaz sealed the Nunez club's fate with a delightful curling shot, which eluded Juan Pablo Carrizo to give Lanus a 2-1 victory.

River will move on to a match against Cordoba club Belgrano in the promocion, with the winner over two legs earning the right to play Primera soccer next year.

Playoff rivals Olimpo, meanwhile, ensured top-flight football next season by downing Quilmes 1-0 away from home, at the same time condemning Ricardo Caruso Lombardi's side to direct relegation. Tigre also celebrated the preservation of its Primera status, drawing 1-1 with Argentinos Juniors after falling behind to an early strike.

The other two matches played on Saturday afternoon would prove to be indecisive in determining who would join Quilmes in the Nacional B. Huracan had a torrid match at the hands of former coach and lifelong fan Antonio Mohamed; the Independiente boss appeared to have sent his idols down after handing out a fearsome 5-1 thrashing in Avellaneda, and was visibly distraught. The defeat meant that Gimnasia could book a place in the promocion with victory against Boca Juniors, and appeared to have reached its goal.


Link


Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!

I already knew ^^^ THAT.

but look at the Apertura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/seasonType/1/primera-division-de-argentina

now look at the Clausura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/primera-division-de-argentina

River's final position in both of those is FOURTH and 9th, so how come they are now in danger of being sent to the B league?

Thats why its called ''promicion'' or promotion in our terms, kinda like triple-a baseball player going to the mlb and sending your not so good player down from the majors and try to fight back for a spot in the majors, well in this case its for the team if im making any sense?, rosario central was in the bigs a year ago or so and they got sent down cause they were not performing ''A'' style soccer or close to the standings, it happens after every tournament Clausura/Apertura.

WOW

is that really how it works? that's a pretty s**tty system. MLB teams having a say over which players should be in the bigs makes sense, but the league determining which teams are worthy of playing at the highest level is pretty f**king stupid IMO

again, don't even like River one bit, but the system is just ridiculous if it does indeed work they way you're describing it.
Although if I had to choose a team from Argentina, no doubt I would choose River Plate, its ironic that they're getting relegated. Since the system was changed so they would not get relegated some 20 or something years ago. Karma.
  • VDSF
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,419
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Originally posted by VDSF:
Originally posted by vrabbit:
I guess I don't understand the delegation process in Argentina

I saw River Plate will have to play a game vs one of the top teams from the B league to see who will get to be in the top league and I ASSUMED they were one of the 3 worst teams in the league.

However I then looked at the standings just to see how bad they had been and they were just middle of the pack both in the Apertura and Clausura so why the hell are they possible getting sent down?

By the way this is a BIG deal, River Plate is one of the most historic soccer clubs of all time, they have racked up many championships including a world title. And I ain't even a fan, I'm a Boca Jrs. fan, and I know we're supposed to wish the worst on our rivals but them doing THIS BAD is shocking it's the equivalent of Barca/Juventus/Man U finishing bottom 3 and getting sent down to 2nd division leagues.

I know, that would NEVER happen (juve for other reasons), that's why it's so shocking that River Plate is on the edge of falling that bad

I'm a BOCA JUNIORS fan too!!!!

Vamo Boca Carajo!!!!

Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!!

thank you for giving me absolutely ZERO answer to my question

River Plate face playoff torture as 2011 relegation battle is defined in Argentina

Argentine giant River Plate must face the agony of a two-legged playoff to avoid being relegated for the first time in its history, as a defeat against Lanus condemned it to the promocion in a thrilling finish to the 2010-11 Primera Division relegation battle.

With six teams directly fighting either to escape the direct drop or a playoff against a Nacional B side, no fewer than five games were scheduled concurrently on Saturday afternoon, including the Millo's crucial home clash against the Clausura's second-placed outfit Lanus.

The hosts went down early to a Silvio Romero goal, but saw their hopes raised when Erik Lamela equalized from close with a scruffy finish that nevertheless raised spirits in the Monumental. River subsequently pushed forward, but despite several decent chances could not find the winner. In the 93rd minute, Leandro Diaz sealed the Nunez club's fate with a delightful curling shot, which eluded Juan Pablo Carrizo to give Lanus a 2-1 victory.

River will move on to a match against Cordoba club Belgrano in the promocion, with the winner over two legs earning the right to play Primera soccer next year.

Playoff rivals Olimpo, meanwhile, ensured top-flight football next season by downing Quilmes 1-0 away from home, at the same time condemning Ricardo Caruso Lombardi's side to direct relegation. Tigre also celebrated the preservation of its Primera status, drawing 1-1 with Argentinos Juniors after falling behind to an early strike.

The other two matches played on Saturday afternoon would prove to be indecisive in determining who would join Quilmes in the Nacional B. Huracan had a torrid match at the hands of former coach and lifelong fan Antonio Mohamed; the Independiente boss appeared to have sent his idols down after handing out a fearsome 5-1 thrashing in Avellaneda, and was visibly distraught. The defeat meant that Gimnasia could book a place in the promocion with victory against Boca Juniors, and appeared to have reached its goal.


Link


Se va la B!!!! Se va la B!!!! Che riBer plate!!!! Se va la B!!!!!!

I already knew ^^^ THAT.

but look at the Apertura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/seasonType/1/primera-division-de-argentina

now look at the Clausura standings http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/posiciones/_/liga/arg.1/primera-division-de-argentina

River's final position in both of those is FOURTH and 9th, so how come they are now in danger of being sent to the B league?

Thats why its called ''promicion'' or promotion in our terms, kinda like triple-a baseball player going to the mlb and sending your not so good player down from the majors and try to fight back for a spot in the majors, well in this case its for the team if im making any sense?, rosario central was in the bigs a year ago or so and they got sent down cause they were not performing ''A'' style soccer or close to the standings, it happens after every tournament Clausura/Apertura.

WOW

is that really how it works? that's a pretty s**tty system. MLB teams having a say over which players should be in the bigs makes sense, but the league determining which teams are worthy of playing at the highest level is pretty f**king stupid IMO

again, don't even like River one bit, but the system is just ridiculous if it does indeed work they way you're describing it.


Oh and thats not all, if you win the copa libertadores your secured for the ''A'' league for 2 years and if you suck after winning the libertadores and are not at least top 10 in the standings, guess what, promotion time for the top ''B'' league team to fight for the spot.
can somebody link me to a document where this bogus rule is stated? one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard
  • NickV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,560
some small transfer rumor tidbits:

Quote:
Porto's Radamel Falcao could follow Andre Villas-Boas to Chelsea - report

Quote:
Juventus have €50m to spend on transfers & 'number one target' is Atletico Madrid's Sergio Aguero

Quote:
Benfica make £6.2m offer for Almeria's Pablo Piatti - report

Quote:
Chelsea, Manchester United & Manchester City could sign Inter’s Wesley Sneijder
I've been closely following the Aguero to Juve rumors for the past month and a half...lulz...
well, there're gone for sure now
Quote:
Argentinian Primera División (Level 1, 20 teams): relegates the two teams with the lowest average points per match over a three year period, and teams placed 17th and 18th in the average points per match table play-off against the 3rd and 4th placed sides of that season's Nacional B table. The 1st and 2nd placed teams in the Nacional B are directly promoted to Primera Division, without a play-off.

Ok so I understand the system now

I don't really agree with it though

River Plate did finish last in Apertura '08, which is completely unacceptable, but even then they bounced back in Clausura '09 finishing 8th



why can't it just be like in most European leagues (to not say all since I don't know how they all work) where the bottom 3 teams at the end of the season are sent down? This is some crappy ass rule, no more Super Clasico, at least for next season
  • VDSF
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,419
Originally posted by vrabbit:
Quote:
Argentinian Primera División (Level 1, 20 teams): relegates the two teams with the lowest average points per match over a three year period, and teams placed 17th and 18th in the average points per match table play-off against the 3rd and 4th placed sides of that season's Nacional B table. The 1st and 2nd placed teams in the Nacional B are directly promoted to Primera Division, without a play-off.

Ok so I understand the system now

I don't really agree with it though

River Plate did finish last in Apertura '08, which is completely unacceptable, but even then they bounced back in Clausura '09 finishing 8th



why can't it just be like in most European leagues (to not say all since I don't know how they all work) where the bottom 3 teams at the end of the season are sent down? This is some crappy ass rule, no more Super Clasico, at least for next season


Violence, riots break out as River Plate relegated

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP)—Historic soccer team River Plate was relegated to the Argentine second division for the first time in its 110-year existence Sunday, sparking riots between police and fans with dozens injured inside and outside Monumental stadium.

The relegation came after a 1-1 draw with Belgrano in the second leg— Belgrano won the first 2-0—of a demotion playoff. Mariano Pavone scored in the sixth minute for River, and Guillermo Farre tied it in 62nd.

Violence broke a minute before the match was over. Angry fans pelted players with objects from the stands, and police replied with high-powered fire hoses with some fans climbing fences topped with razor wire.

As fans were pounded with jets of water, River Plate’s players huddled on the pitch, many in tears, including goalkeeper Juan Pablo Carrizo.

The mayhem quickly spread outside River’s 50,000-seat stadium. Alberto Crescenti, head of emergency medical services, said at least 55 people had been injured.

Nilda Garre, the minister for security, said 35 police officers were injured.

“Fortunately, none have their lives at risk,” the Argentine news agency DyN reported her saying.

Police used water cannons outside the stadium immediately after the match, hoping to disperse fans quickly. Fans who poured out of the stadium faced police with batons and shields at every exit, while attack dogs were ready and helicopters hovered over the stadium.

The area outside the stadium, located in the leafy northern suburb of Nunez, looked like a war zone with police battling hand to hand with River Plate hooligans, who are known by the colorful nickname “Los Borrachos del Tablon”— the Drunks in the Stands.

Police fired rubber bullets and tear gas, and brought in mounted units to try to keep order.

Young, angry fans responded by throwing rocks at police, setting fire to rubbish bins and vehicles, and ripping down metal street barriers. Smoke also billowed from one end of the stadium with reports that concession areas and other parts of the stadium had been set on fire.

Fans also ripped up stadium seats and used them as weapons in fights.

Half a half dozen ambulances entered the stadium area about 45 minutes after the match ended, with live television coverage showing medics working on the injured while street fights erupted just a few feet away.

As the troublemakers were driven away from the stadium, there were reports of stores and shops being broken into on one of Buenos Aires’ most famous thoroughfares—Avenida Del Libertador.

Fearing this kind of violence, Argentine authorities deployed about 2,200 police—reported to be the largest security operation for a soccer match—to control the crowd.

Suggestions to play the match in an empty stadium were turned down by interior ministry officials after consulting with the Argentine Football Association and its president Julio Grondona.

The violence was predicted. On Wednesday, the first leg in Corboda was stopped for 20 minutes early in the second half after River Plate hooligans ripped through a fence and raced across the field taunting and pushing River Plate players.

Link



[ Edited by VDSF on Jun 26, 2011 at 22:17:27 ]
  • 4ML
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 28,480
Pozzo (owner Udinese): "We only talk with Barcelona. We never opened talks with Man City because the boy only wants to join Barcelona."

Trade him already you f**kin' chump!
  • NickV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,560
Originally posted by 1251alex:
I've been closely following the Aguero to Juve rumors for the past month and a half...lulz...

got more news for ya then

Quote:
Liverpool target Keisuke Honda pleased with reports linking him with Juventus move]

link
as pleased as I am with the Honda linkage, I doubt CSKA sells him for anything less than 18 million euros. Our new coach Conte, uses a 4-2-4 formation, so idk how an attacking midfielder would fit into that system unless he can play as a left wing. I think this is just being used to get either the prices of Meireles or Nani to come down. or anyone else really. I dont see Honda coming here. Especially if he doesnt have a EU passport.