Would you make this deal if you were the Giants GM?

Stras and Harper for Hanson and Heyward?

Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Stras and Harper for Hanson and Heyward?

What do you think Skeet?

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Stras and Harper for Hanson and Heyward?

What do you think Skeet?

Tough cuz heyward is gonna be a stud for years to come and Hanson's a very good pitcher. May not have the top 5 talent as Stras does but he is certainly top 15...

I think Washington would because of talent of heyward and that he's proven he can play at this level. And still getting an ace in return.

Don't think the braves would

Originally posted by skeetskeet:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Stras and Harper for Hanson and Heyward?

What do you think Skeet?

Tough cuz heyward is gonna be a stud for years to come and Hanson's a very good pitcher. May not have the top 5 talent as Stras does but he is certainly top 15...

I think Washington would because of talent of heyward and that he's proven he can play at this level. And still getting an ace in return.

Don't think the braves would

I dont think Atlanta would either. Hansen and Heyward should be a fixture there for years. Its a pretty close deal but I would favor the Atlanta duo as well

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by notsoempty86:
I am the greatest giants fan of all time. I have an opinion, so I start a thread about it. When other people express their opinion I fail to even consider their points while reminding them that I am the greatest fan ever. I also love to call them homer's. Did I mention I was the best giants fan in the world? ---ninerjohn

ps. I love bryce harper. too bad he is underage.

Hey funny boy. Try making a good point rather than make some personal attack. I never said that I was the greatest Giants fan of all time. Show me anywhere that I said that. I said that no one was a bigger fan than me or probably has seen more games. The reason that I make that point is while I am a huge fan and have followed the team longer than most in here have been alive I am not biased when it comes to judging talent. The thread was meant to stimulate some converation but I guess you cant appreciate that.

in all honesty I actually enjoy most of your posts in the giants thread, and am really just messing around. You do follow baseball close and have some valuable insight for sure. However, this thread is about an opinion yet you have seemingly no respect for anybody else's thoughts. You like Strausburg and Harper and you should, they MAY be great. Tim Lincecum IS great, arguably the best in the game over the last 2 years.

If I was a gm (the point of the thread) I would take Lincecum over Strausburg at this moment in time. I think Tim might hold up longer, and he has already proven he can adapt and get better. While Zimmerman has better power numbers than pablo, I think the panda's ability to hit for high average with power in our ballpark makes that trade an almost wash. Maybe slight edge towards Zimmerman, but not much. Finally, Ill take posey over harper at this point, who may be at least 2-3 seasons from wearing a big league uniform. There is also no proof that harper will be any better than posey in the long run. We just dont know.

Originally posted by notsoempty86:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by notsoempty86:
I am the greatest giants fan of all time. I have an opinion, so I start a thread about it. When other people express their opinion I fail to even consider their points while reminding them that I am the greatest fan ever. I also love to call them homer's. Did I mention I was the best giants fan in the world? ---ninerjohn

ps. I love bryce harper. too bad he is underage.

Hey funny boy. Try making a good point rather than make some personal attack. I never said that I was the greatest Giants fan of all time. Show me anywhere that I said that. I said that no one was a bigger fan than me or probably has seen more games. The reason that I make that point is while I am a huge fan and have followed the team longer than most in here have been alive I am not biased when it comes to judging talent. The thread was meant to stimulate some converation but I guess you cant appreciate that.

in all honesty I actually enjoy most of your posts in the giants thread, and am really just messing around. You do follow baseball close and have some valuable insight for sure. However, this thread is about an opinion yet you have seemingly no respect for anybody else's thoughts. You like Strausburg and Harper and you should, they MAY be great. Tim Lincecum IS great, arguably the best in the game over the last 2 years.

If I was a gm (the point of the thread) I would take Lincecum over Strausburg at this moment in time. I think Tim might hold up longer, and he has already proven he can adapt and get better. While Zimmerman has better power numbers than pablo, I think the panda's ability to hit for high average with power in our ballpark makes that trade an almost wash. Maybe slight edge towards Zimmerman, but not much. Finally, Ill take posey over harper at this point, who may be at least 2-3 seasons from wearing a big league uniform. There is also no proof that harper will be any better than posey in the long run. We just dont know.

Actually, I do understand why Giants fans wouldnt make the deal. I also respect a post like this one where you make good points and offer a real opinion. There isnt one right answer. I would make the deal because I think the upside is big enough to take the risk. Many agree and many disagree. That is cool and was kind of the point of the thread. A fun topic that would make people think a bit about the future versus the present.

By the way, the only person that I had an issue with at all was Rabbit who chose not to make an opinion but just attacked me for making the thread at all. I may disagree with others but thats ok. I'm glad you chose to make a good post this time.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

First of all your guarantees that every single GM in baseball would choose the Giants trio means nothing. Doubtful the Nats GM would trade those 3 for one thing. I cant speak to the other 29 GMS and make guarantees like you seem
to think you can.

Secondly, your homerism is showing if you actually think for a second that Panda has equal value to Zimmerman. You are talking a gold glove type 3b with big time power versus someone who doesnt have the work ethic to stay in shape and had 1 good year. I like Panda a lot but he is no Ryan Zimmerman. LOL at you proving their equal value though. Yes Panda had a great year last year but is he showing it now? Perhaps pitchers realize that he has absolutley no plate discipline and have adjusted to him. Batting title? Seriously doubt that. Until Panda proves he has the plate discipline and work ethic to get himself in shape I will have doubts on him for the long haul.

The question really isnt who I would rather have for 2010 or 2011. The question is.. who would I rather have for the next decade and who I think would be more likely to get the team to the WS and win. I believe its the Washington trio. You believe its the Giants group. Fair enough.

lol your opinions are so arrogant for someone thats always off base.

Sandoval finished 2nd for the NL batting title last year to Hanley Ramirez. he HAS batting title ability. hes still a kid dude, give him some time to learn how to hit. at his age most guys are still in the minors. hes been up since age 22 hitting .330+. his swing went cold for a few weeks this year, but hes getting it back. it doesnt take major league pitching 2 years of a guy hitting nearly .340 to adjust to not pitch him in the zone. he puts balls in play 2 feet outside the zone. hes got a Vlad approach.

its amusing how you use the fact that hes overweight to call him a lazy slob, and thats the reason why hes slumping this year. funny, because he was fat last year and raked .330 with pop, and you werent complaining about him being a fat and lazy. is Aaron Rowand lazy too? or because hes not fat, his slump is just a slump...

Ryan Zimmerman has no more power than Sandoval. big time power? you cant be serious. he has "solid" power. hes a 25 homer guy, settling into that after 5-6 seasons in the majors. the fact that hes a .285 hitter and Sandoval hits .285 in his slumps, makes up a HUGE difference from his D. Sandoval isnt a bad defensive player, just average. give anyone a choice between a GG 3B or a .330 avg 3B and everyone would pick the .330 guy. those are pretty darn rare.

if youre such a big Giants fan, you have seen Pablo's HR. when he get ahold of one, they go a long way. the power is there, it will just come later as he understands the strike zone better. right now he swings at everything, and every once and a while runs into one. when he learns to stay in the strike zone more often, hes going to be a special player.

a 23 year old catcher who can rake gap to gap whos proving hes major league tested, a 24 year old 3B who has proven he can hit for very high avg with power potential at the major league level, and a 25 year old ace whos won the CY in his first 2 seasons. think about it. for the next decade, youd rather have the other 3, 2 of which have proven nothing at the major league level....

you dont seem to have a good grasp on whats valuable to ballclubs. certain positions are coveted over others. a young ace SP, a young stud hitting C, and a young stud hitting 3B who are all major league ready, are GOLD. you dont find these guys easily. all 3 have made the majors, and proven theyre for real.

Harper is Angel Villalona. hes 17. he cant even buy cigarettes legally. he may not even make it to the majors. who knows? like i said, what if he cant hit major league caliber off speed pitches? hes done.

im not a Giants homer at all. ive avoided that for years. im actually very critical of them, but you have to give credit where its due, and the Giants have several young, potential laden talents on their team, none of which you would deal for unproven prospects.

[ Edited by Niners99 on Jun 16, 2010 at 02:07:53 ]

Zimm>>panda that's the only argument for the trade

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

First of all your guarantees that every single GM in baseball would choose the Giants trio means nothing. Doubtful the Nats GM would trade those 3 for one thing. I cant speak to the other 29 GMS and make guarantees like you seem
to think you can.

Secondly, your homerism is showing if you actually think for a second that Panda has equal value to Zimmerman. You are talking a gold glove type 3b with big time power versus someone who doesnt have the work ethic to stay in shape and had 1 good year. I like Panda a lot but he is no Ryan Zimmerman. LOL at you proving their equal value though. Yes Panda had a great year last year but is he showing it now? Perhaps pitchers realize that he has absolutley no plate discipline and have adjusted to him. Batting title? Seriously doubt that. Until Panda proves he has the plate discipline and work ethic to get himself in shape I will have doubts on him for the long haul.

The question really isnt who I would rather have for 2010 or 2011. The question is.. who would I rather have for the next decade and who I think would be more likely to get the team to the WS and win. I believe its the Washington trio. You believe its the Giants group. Fair enough.

lol your opinions are so arrogant for someone thats always off base.


Sandoval finished 2nd for the NL batting title last year to Hanley Ramirez. he HAS batting title ability. hes still a kid dude, give him some time to learn how to hit. at his age most guys are still in the minors. hes been up since age 22 hitting .330+. his swing went cold for a few weeks this year, but hes getting it back. it doesnt take major league pitching 2 years of a guy hitting nearly .340 to adjust to not pitch him in the zone. he puts balls in play 2 feet outside the zone. hes got a Vlad approach.


its amusing how you use the fact that hes overweight to call him a lazy slob, and thats the reason why hes slumping this year. funny, because he was fat last year and raked .330 with pop, and you werent complaining about him being a fat and lazy. is Aaron Rowand lazy too? or because hes not fat, his slump is just a slump...

Ryan Zimmerman has no more power than Sandoval. big time power? you cant be serious. he has "solid" power. hes a 25 homer guy, settling into that after 5-6 seasons in the majors. the fact that hes a .285 hitter and Sandoval hits .285 in his slumps, makes up a HUGE difference from his D. Sandoval isnt a bad defensive player, just average. give anyone a choice between a GG 3B or a .330 avg 3B and everyone would pick the .330 guy. those are pretty darn rare.



if youre such a big Giants fan, you have seen Pablo's HR. when he get ahold of one, they go a long way. the power is there, it will just come later as he understands the strike zone better. right now he swings at everything, and every once and a while runs into one. when he learns to stay in the strike zone more often, hes going to be a special player.

a 23 year old catcher who can rake gap to gap whos proving hes major league tested, a 24 year old 3B who has proven he can hit for very high avg with power potential at the major league level, and a 25 year old ace whos won the CY in his first 2 seasons. think about it. for the next decade, youd rather have the other 3, 2 of which have proven nothing at the major league level....

you dont seem to have a good grasp on whats valuable to ballclubs. certain positions are coveted over others. a young ace SP, a young stud hitting C, and a young stud hitting 3B who are all major league ready, are GOLD. you dont find these guys easily. all 3 have made the majors, and proven theyre for real.

Harper is Angel Villalona. hes 17. he cant even buy cigarettes legally. he may not even make it to the majors. who knows? like i said, what if he cant hit major league caliber off speed pitches? hes done.

im not a Giants homer at all. ive avoided that for years. im actually very critical of them, but you have to give credit where its due, and the Giants have several young, potential laden talents on their team, none of which you would deal for unproven prospects.

Sorry but I think you are the one who has a limited grasp on things.

I'm pretty sure that I only said he was fat and not dedicated to keeping himself in shape. That is actually a fact. Secondly I never said that I didnt like him. I DID say that I would take Ryan Zimmerman over him anyday and I believe virttually every GM would. If you look at the posts in here others agree.

Zimmerman hit over 30 homers and 100 rbis last year and won the Gold Glove. He is on pace to hit 37 homers this year and again drive in over 100 runs. Yet, you seem to think Panda has as much power and would be more coveted than Zimmerman. Umm... ok. I SERIOUSLY doubt that. Now, if Panda WAS in shape and a good defender I might agree with you. However, he isnt.

Then, you compare Harper to Villalona. That is simply a joke. Why? Because of their age? I guess all the major league scouts and people who really understand baseball are completely wrong and you are right. Every single person that I have heard talk about this kid say he is a sure thing to be a very good major league hitter with power. Will he be a superstar? Maybe not. Comparing him to Angel Villalona is a ridiculous and you should know that. Villalona was never even considered the Giants top prospect in the organization let alone the #1 pick in the entire draft.

You say the Giants have "several young potential laden talents on their team, none of which you would deal for unproven talents" Really? Who would those be? Tell me.. which players would you not trade for Stephen Strasburg who is an unproven talent besides Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum? You wouldnt deal Panda for Strasburg?????? You wouldnt trade ANY prospect in our minor league system right now for Harper? REALLY? I know that I would. Bumgarner is the only one who would even be close.

I dont have a problem at all with disagreeing but when you make completely silly comments like these it really does make me wonder about your "grasp" of things.

Again my point is.. which trio has the biggest upside and would be most likely to lead the team to the WS if they all reached their potential. Would there be some risk? OF COURSE! I really only think Harper is an unknown. Strasburg has already shown me enough to know he is the real deal.

[ Edited by Ninerjohn on Jun 16, 2010 at 09:28:49 ]

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Stras and Harper for Hanson and Heyward?

What do you think Skeet?

I thought about this again from a giants perspective...

Lincecum is better than Hanson who isn't quite elite top tier caliber... yet.

And Heyward will be a very good player but not in the Braun/eithier catagory.

And in my opinion I think a top 5/top 3 catcher is much more valuable to have. And if posey was left handed they would all talk about how beautiful his swing is.

So I dunno if I was the GM of the giants if I would trade Timmy and Posey for Heyward and Hanson.

Originally posted by skeetskeet:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Stras and Harper for Hanson and Heyward?

What do you think Skeet?

I thought about this again from a giants perspective...

Lincecum is better than Hanson who isn't quite elite top tier caliber... yet.

And Heyward will be a very good player but not in the Braun/eithier catagory.

And in my opinion I think a top 5/top 3 catcher is much more valuable to have. And if posey was left handed they would all talk about how beautiful his swing is.

So I dunno if I was the GM of the giants if I would trade Timmy and Posey for Heyward and Hanson.

To me this would clearly come down to how great you think Heyward will be. If you think he is the next superstar in baseball that will be hitting 40+ homers then I would do that deal. I'm not as high on Hansen as I am Strasburg but there is no doubt he is a very good young pitcher. Atlanta would never make the deal though.

I think heyward is a 40+ homer type guy!

Originally posted by maximill15:
I think heyward is a 40+ homer type guy!

I dont, i think he is more of a 20-30 guy

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by maximill15:
I think heyward is a 40+ homer type guy!

I dont, i think he is more of a 20-30 guy

opo jacks at AT&T park, 6'5 and can still fill into his frame!

Originally posted by maximill15:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by maximill15:
I think heyward is a 40+ homer type guy!

I dont, i think he is more of a 20-30 guy

opo jacks at AT&T park, 6'5 and can still fill into his frame!

Heyward definitely projects as a 40+ HR guy.