Would you make this deal if you were the Giants GM?

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

Originally posted by WestCoast:
absolutley not

im probably the only person on the planet that thinks strasburg is gonna burnout in a couple of years

I'm starting to feel the same about Timmy right now...really not sure if he's going to get his fastball back to the mid-90's again, whereas even if Strasburg loses 5 MPH off his fastball, he'll still be throwing in the mid-90's.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

First of all your guarantees that every single GM in baseball would choose the Giants trio means nothing. Doubtful the Nats GM would trade those 3 for one thing. I cant speak to the other 29 GMS and make guarantees like you seem
to think you can.

Secondly, your homerism is showing if you actually think for a second that Panda has equal value to Zimmerman. You are talking a gold glove type 3b with big time power versus someone who doesnt have the work ethic to stay in shape and had 1 good year. I like Panda a lot but he is no Ryan Zimmerman. LOL at you proving their equal value though. Yes Panda had a great year last year but is he showing it now? Perhaps pitchers realize that he has absolutley no plate discipline and have adjusted to him. Batting title? Seriously doubt that. Until Panda proves he has the plate discipline and work ethic to get himself in shape I will have doubts on him for the long haul.

The question really isnt who I would rather have for 2010 or 2011. The question is.. who would I rather have for the next decade and who I think would be more likely to get the team to the WS and win. I believe its the Washington trio. You believe its the Giants group. Fair enough.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WestCoast:
absolutley not

im probably the only person on the planet that thinks strasburg is gonna burnout in a couple of years

I'm starting to feel the same about Timmy right now...really not sure if he's going to get his fastball back to the mid-90's again, whereas even if Strasburg loses 5 MPH off his fastball, he'll still be throwing in the mid-90's.

Obviously if you were asking who you would rather have for 1 year right now most people would take Timmy and I agree. However, I also agree with you that between the two I believe it will be Lincecum who will lose his stuff sooner. I think he has already lost 4-5 miles off his fastball. I believe that is the main reason that he has become overly dependent on his other pitches and has stuggled at times.

John, the other thing about the Kobe/Vlade trade was that the Lakers were trying to clear cap space to sign Shaq. We traded Anthony Peeler & George Lynch (a starter and our 6th man) for a couple of 2nd round picks in order to accomplish that as well. The fact that West was able to get Kobe as well was amazing, but the underlying motive was signing a 24 year old Shaq.

But I do get your point though, and it does make for interesting discussion. I'm not sure whether or not I'd do that trade, it's a great question.

I think the biggest wild card in this scenario is Bryce Harper. Strasburg's a bit of a different story, because his assets were measurable before he got to the majors. We know that a 102 MPH fastball and his breaking stuff are going to get major league hitters out. It's a lot easier to gauge.

For a hitter though...can he hit major league pitching? Sure, Harper has insane power, but we've never seen him go up against top notch pitching for any period of time. Now it's true that Strasburg hasn't pitched against major league hitters until recently as well, but the difference is that they have to react to him, instead of vice versa. We can measure what he can do, and it's very impressive.

I know very little about Posey, but his stats appear to indicate that he's on the fast track to the majors, and he appears to have good defensive numbers as well.

Neither team would do this trade, very interesting hypothetical deal though.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
John, the other thing about the Kobe/Vlade trade was that the Lakers were trying to clear cap space to sign Shaq. We traded Anthony Peeler & George Lynch (a starter and our 6th man) for a couple of 2nd round picks in order to accomplish that as well. The fact that West was able to get Kobe as well was amazing, but the underlying motive was signing a 24 year old Shaq.

But I do get your point though, and it does make for interesting discussion. I'm not sure whether or not I'd do that trade, it's a great question.

I think the biggest wild card in this scenario is Bryce Harper. Strasburg's a bit of a different story, because his assets were measurable before he got to the majors. We know that a 102 MPH fastball and his breaking stuff are going to get major league hitters out. It's a lot easier to gauge.

For a hitter though...can he hit major league pitching? Sure, Harper has insane power, but we've never seen him go up against top notch pitching for any period of time. Now it's true that Strasburg hasn't pitched against major league hitters until recently as well, but the difference is that they have to react to him, instead of vice versa. We can measure what he can do, and it's very impressive.

I know very little about Posey, but his stats appear to indicate that he's on the fast track to the majors, and he appears to have good defensive numbers as well.

Pete, I know that wasnt the perfect analogy. Just was trying to make a point about having the vision to trade an established, excellent player for a totally unproven kid. I'm sure I could have come up with a better example.

Harper is certainly unknown as to how he will hit in the majors. I have not even seen him play in a live game. However, I am going by the words of scouts and other baseball people that say his ability is off the charts and that his power potential is immense. Time will tell. As far as Posey goes.. he will be a damn good player. No debating that at all.

I don't think people realize the potential of Bryce Harper! I mean dude was belting homers with a wood bat as a 17 year old!!!

fast forward to about 3 min

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

First of all your guarantees that every single GM in baseball would choose the Giants trio means nothing. Doubtful the Nats GM would trade those 3 for one thing. I cant speak to the other 29 GMS and make guarantees like you seem
to think you can.

Secondly, your homerism is showing if you actually think for a second that Panda has equal value to Zimmerman. You are talking a gold glove type 3b with big time power versus someone who doesnt have the work ethic to stay in shape and had 1 good year. I like Panda a lot but he is no Ryan Zimmerman. LOL at you proving their equal value though. Yes Panda had a great year last year but is he showing it now? Perhaps pitchers realize that he has absolutley no plate discipline and have adjusted to him. Batting title? Seriously doubt that. Until Panda proves he has the plate discipline and work ethic to get himself in shape I will have doubts on him for the long haul.

The question really isnt who I would rather have for 2010 or 2011. The question is.. who would I rather have for the next decade and who I think would be more likely to get the team to the WS and win. I believe its the Washington trio. You believe its the Giants group. Fair enough.

....................................................................................................................

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by TheNaitch:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
95-97 mph CURVEBALLS!

Insanity

Let's not get carried away. It's an 83-84 MPH Curve ball.

No s**t.



There's more to winning the world series than having a young stud pitcher. Case in point, the SF Giants and their 2 time Cy Young Award winning youngster.

Yes but the Giants dont have any hitters with the upside of Zimmerman or Harper.

Don't forget the chosen one....Mr. Posey

Love Buster but I just dont believe he will have the power upside of either Zimmerman or Harper. That isnt a slight on Buster at all.

lol come on...really? because of a slow start youre already dropping Sandoval out of a discussion with upside compared to Zimmerman? Zim isnt THAT good. imo Sandoval shouldve won the Silver Slugger over Zim last year. he had an avg 40 pts higher...

but anyways, you cant claim Bryce Harper is anything more than a "prospect" who could easily flame out. so many players have been "cant miss" guys. they look like those Harper type hitters, and end up crapping out. Buster Posey is hitting like a 10 year vet at the major league level at age 23. a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Zimmerman is a great 3B, but at this point id still take Sandoval and Posey over him and Harper.

besides, the Nationals clearly dont have a good understanding of how to win. i dont exactly trust them to handle these players development correctly, or support them with a team around them. at the end of their rookie contract they could be telling the Nats to kick rocks.

You are nuts. I promise you there isnt a GM in baseball that takes Panda Fat Boy over Ryan Zimmerman. Zimmerman has 35-40 hr potentia every year. He is also a much better defender. That isnt close.

I didnt say that Buster wasnt good but that Harper had the much bigger power upside. Buster will be a 15 hr guy most likely. However time will tell.

I would take Zimmerman and Harper over Posey and Panda any day of the week.

Strasburg,Harper, and Zimmerman would be chosen over Lincecum, Panda, and Posey by any GM in baseball. It would be a no brainer actually.

Zimmerman has never hit 35HR's..the most he hit was 33 and that was last year (4th full season)

Panda hit 25 in his first full season with a .330 avg...the most Zimm got before last year was 24...His defense is much better than Panda's ill give u that but Zimmerman is not that much better than Panda..the only thing he's proven over Panda is that he can hit over 30 HR's...

Harper? The guy hasn't played in the MLB ever, it's dumb to say its a no brainer. Same goes for Strasburg, he could end up like Kerry Wood..

Of course all the Giants fans will disagree with this. I've been a Giants fan longer than anyone here (except for Ron) but I also look at things objectively and know that any GM would take the Nationals 3 players for the next decade over the Giants 3. That isnt taking anything away from Lincy, Panda, or Posey. Its simply recognzing great talent.

Posey will be a damn good player but I just dont think he is going to be a middle of the order power hitting stud like Harper may be. Panda may be out of the league in 5 years if he doesnt get a handle on his weight and Zimmerman is one of the best 3b in baseball right now. timmy vs Strasburg is the interesting debate but I seriously dont see any baseball guy taking Lincecum in that.

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

First of all your guarantees that every single GM in baseball would choose the Giants trio means nothing. Doubtful the Nats GM would trade those 3 for one thing. I cant speak to the other 29 GMS and make guarantees like you seem
to think you can.

Secondly, your homerism is showing if you actually think for a second that Panda has equal value to Zimmerman. You are talking a gold glove type 3b with big time power versus someone who doesnt have the work ethic to stay in shape and had 1 good year. I like Panda a lot but he is no Ryan Zimmerman. LOL at you proving their equal value though. Yes Panda had a great year last year but is he showing it now? Perhaps pitchers realize that he has absolutley no plate discipline and have adjusted to him. Batting title? Seriously doubt that. Until Panda proves he has the plate discipline and work ethic to get himself in shape I will have doubts on him for the long haul.

The question really isnt who I would rather have for 2010 or 2011. The question is.. who would I rather have for the next decade and who I think would be more likely to get the team to the WS and win. I believe its the Washington trio. You believe its the Giants group. Fair enough.

....................................................................................................................

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by TheNaitch:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
95-97 mph CURVEBALLS!

Insanity

Let's not get carried away. It's an 83-84 MPH Curve ball.

No s**t.



There's more to winning the world series than having a young stud pitcher. Case in point, the SF Giants and their 2 time Cy Young Award winning youngster.

Yes but the Giants dont have any hitters with the upside of Zimmerman or Harper.

Don't forget the chosen one....Mr. Posey

Love Buster but I just dont believe he will have the power upside of either Zimmerman or Harper. That isnt a slight on Buster at all.

lol come on...really? because of a slow start youre already dropping Sandoval out of a discussion with upside compared to Zimmerman? Zim isnt THAT good. imo Sandoval shouldve won the Silver Slugger over Zim last year. he had an avg 40 pts higher...

but anyways, you cant claim Bryce Harper is anything more than a "prospect" who could easily flame out. so many players have been "cant miss" guys. they look like those Harper type hitters, and end up crapping out. Buster Posey is hitting like a 10 year vet at the major league level at age 23. a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Zimmerman is a great 3B, but at this point id still take Sandoval and Posey over him and Harper.

besides, the Nationals clearly dont have a good understanding of how to win. i dont exactly trust them to handle these players development correctly, or support them with a team around them. at the end of their rookie contract they could be telling the Nats to kick rocks.

You are nuts. I promise you there isnt a GM in baseball that takes Panda Fat Boy over Ryan Zimmerman. Zimmerman has 35-40 hr potentia every year. He is also a much better defender. That isnt close.

I didnt say that Buster wasnt good but that Harper had the much bigger power upside. Buster will be a 15 hr guy most likely. However time will tell.

I would take Zimmerman and Harper over Posey and Panda any day of the week.

Strasburg,Harper, and Zimmerman would be chosen over Lincecum, Panda, and Posey by any GM in baseball. It would be a no brainer actually.

Zimmerman has never hit 35HR's..the most he hit was 33 and that was last year (4th full season)

Panda hit 25 in his first full season with a .330 avg...the most Zimm got before last year was 24...His defense is much better than Panda's ill give u that but Zimmerman is not that much better than Panda..the only thing he's proven over Panda is that he can hit over 30 HR's...

Harper? The guy hasn't played in the MLB ever, it's dumb to say its a no brainer. Same goes for Strasburg, he could end up like Kerry Wood..

Of course all the Giants fans will disagree with this. I've been a Giants fan longer than anyone here (except for Ron) but I also look at things objectively and know that any GM would take the Nationals 3 players for the next decade over the Giants 3. That isnt taking anything away from Lincy, Panda, or Posey. Its simply recognzing great talent.

Posey will be a damn good player but I just dont think he is going to be a middle of the order power hitting stud like Harper may be. Panda may be out of the league in 5 years if he doesnt get a handle on his weight and Zimmerman is one of the best 3b in baseball right now. timmy vs Strasburg is the interesting debate but I seriously dont see any baseball guy taking Lincecum in that.

Hahahaha. I had a feeling that I had said that earlier but didnt go back to look. I believe it though. It is amazing that someone who was so upset about this thread from the beginning still comes in even if it really isnt to contribute but just to antagonize.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

First of all your guarantees that every single GM in baseball would choose the Giants trio means nothing. Doubtful the Nats GM would trade those 3 for one thing. I cant speak to the other 29 GMS and make guarantees like you seem
to think you can.

Secondly, your homerism is showing if you actually think for a second that Panda has equal value to Zimmerman. You are talking a gold glove type 3b with big time power versus someone who doesnt have the work ethic to stay in shape and had 1 good year. I like Panda a lot but he is no Ryan Zimmerman. LOL at you proving their equal value though. Yes Panda had a great year last year but is he showing it now? Perhaps pitchers realize that he has absolutley no plate discipline and have adjusted to him. Batting title? Seriously doubt that. Until Panda proves he has the plate discipline and work ethic to get himself in shape I will have doubts on him for the long haul.

The question really isnt who I would rather have for 2010 or 2011. The question is.. who would I rather have for the next decade and who I think would be more likely to get the team to the WS and win. I believe its the Washington trio. You believe its the Giants group. Fair enough.

....................................................................................................................

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by TheNaitch:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
95-97 mph CURVEBALLS!

Insanity

Let's not get carried away. It's an 83-84 MPH Curve ball.

No s**t.



There's more to winning the world series than having a young stud pitcher. Case in point, the SF Giants and their 2 time Cy Young Award winning youngster.

Yes but the Giants dont have any hitters with the upside of Zimmerman or Harper.

Don't forget the chosen one....Mr. Posey

Love Buster but I just dont believe he will have the power upside of either Zimmerman or Harper. That isnt a slight on Buster at all.

lol come on...really? because of a slow start youre already dropping Sandoval out of a discussion with upside compared to Zimmerman? Zim isnt THAT good. imo Sandoval shouldve won the Silver Slugger over Zim last year. he had an avg 40 pts higher...

but anyways, you cant claim Bryce Harper is anything more than a "prospect" who could easily flame out. so many players have been "cant miss" guys. they look like those Harper type hitters, and end up crapping out. Buster Posey is hitting like a 10 year vet at the major league level at age 23. a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Zimmerman is a great 3B, but at this point id still take Sandoval and Posey over him and Harper.

besides, the Nationals clearly dont have a good understanding of how to win. i dont exactly trust them to handle these players development correctly, or support them with a team around them. at the end of their rookie contract they could be telling the Nats to kick rocks.

You are nuts. I promise you there isnt a GM in baseball that takes Panda Fat Boy over Ryan Zimmerman. Zimmerman has 35-40 hr potentia every year. He is also a much better defender. That isnt close.

I didnt say that Buster wasnt good but that Harper had the much bigger power upside. Buster will be a 15 hr guy most likely. However time will tell.

I would take Zimmerman and Harper over Posey and Panda any day of the week.

Strasburg,Harper, and Zimmerman would be chosen over Lincecum, Panda, and Posey by any GM in baseball. It would be a no brainer actually.

Zimmerman has never hit 35HR's..the most he hit was 33 and that was last year (4th full season)

Panda hit 25 in his first full season with a .330 avg...the most Zimm got before last year was 24...His defense is much better than Panda's ill give u that but Zimmerman is not that much better than Panda..the only thing he's proven over Panda is that he can hit over 30 HR's...

Harper? The guy hasn't played in the MLB ever, it's dumb to say its a no brainer. Same goes for Strasburg, he could end up like Kerry Wood..

Of course all the Giants fans will disagree with this. I've been a Giants fan longer than anyone here (except for Ron) but I also look at things objectively and know that any GM would take the Nationals 3 players for the next decade over the Giants 3. That isnt taking anything away from Lincy, Panda, or Posey. Its simply recognzing great talent.

Posey will be a damn good player but I just dont think he is going to be a middle of the order power hitting stud like Harper may be. Panda may be out of the league in 5 years if he doesnt get a handle on his weight and Zimmerman is one of the best 3b in baseball right now. timmy vs Strasburg is the interesting debate but I seriously dont see any baseball guy taking Lincecum in that.

Hahahaha. I had a feeling that I had said that earlier but didnt go back to look. I believe it though. It is amazing that someone who was so upset about this thread from the beginning still comes in even if it really isnt to contribute but just to antagonize.

well, someone has to call you on the irony right? I mean you tried to discredit niners99 argument by ridiculing a statement equal to one you made just yesterday I think.

just keeping you straight

Originally posted by maximill15:
I don't think people realize the potential of Bryce Harper! I mean dude was belting homers with a wood bat as a 17 year old!!!

fast forward to about 3 min

LOl , those HRs were not with a wood bat

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by vrabbit:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Niners99:


youre buying WAY too much into the hype. you place Strasburg and Harper WAY too high on a pedestal just because of raw talent. all the talent in the world doesnt mean crap unless you prove it at the major league level.

salaries aside, call up ANY major league team and offer them Lincecum, Sandoval, and Posey or Strasburg, Zimmerman, and Harper, i GUARANTEE you every single major league team takes the Giants trio. proven commodities are worth ALOT more than prospects. Strasburg HOPES to be Tim Lincecum in a few years.

go look at Zimmermans career stats. in 4 full major league seasons, he averages 96 R, 26 HR, 98 RBI, .351 OB%, .286 avg, and he strikes out alot. 119 k's per season on average.

youre telling me a younger Sandoval who could EASILY match those stats every year while hitting 40+ pts higher and getting base more often, is significantly less valuable? who gives a flying frick if hes fat. Prince Fielder is even fatter, and im pretty sure youd be ok with being a Giant.

Zim and Sandoval are very similar values. Zim's a GG defender, Pablo is average. Pablo could win a batting title, Zim cant. they both could score 85-100 runs, drive in 85-100 rbis, and hit 25 homers.

and you could easily argue that a young catcher that can hit well enough to be a middle of the order batter, as well as having a great arm, and is major league ready now, proving hes for real, is a much safer bet than some 17 year old kid who hits moonshots in BP.

listen to yourself. ive already proven why Sandoval and Zim are very similar valued players. Lincecum is a 25 year old ace whos won the CY twice in 2 seasons at the big league level. and Buster Posey one of the elite young catchers who breezed through the minors and is already raking major league pitching at age 23.

take away salaries, and the Giants trio is chosen over the Nats trio by all 31 other teams, including the Nationals. easily. youve let the Strasburg hype cloud your judgement. hes going to miss bats for a while until the major leagues gets a good scouting report on how to hit him.

we havent seen him work through a slump, or if he can even keep this up long term. what happens if he loses his velocity? can he pitch, or just throw? Lincecum has proven this year even with lost velocity, he can be smart and pitch his way through it ala Greg Maddux.

First of all your guarantees that every single GM in baseball would choose the Giants trio means nothing. Doubtful the Nats GM would trade those 3 for one thing. I cant speak to the other 29 GMS and make guarantees like you seem
to think you can.

Secondly, your homerism is showing if you actually think for a second that Panda has equal value to Zimmerman. You are talking a gold glove type 3b with big time power versus someone who doesnt have the work ethic to stay in shape and had 1 good year. I like Panda a lot but he is no Ryan Zimmerman. LOL at you proving their equal value though. Yes Panda had a great year last year but is he showing it now? Perhaps pitchers realize that he has absolutley no plate discipline and have adjusted to him. Batting title? Seriously doubt that. Until Panda proves he has the plate discipline and work ethic to get himself in shape I will have doubts on him for the long haul.

The question really isnt who I would rather have for 2010 or 2011. The question is.. who would I rather have for the next decade and who I think would be more likely to get the team to the WS and win. I believe its the Washington trio. You believe its the Giants group. Fair enough.

....................................................................................................................

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by BirdmanJr:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by TheNaitch:

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
95-97 mph CURVEBALLS!

Insanity

Let's not get carried away. It's an 83-84 MPH Curve ball.

No s**t.



There's more to winning the world series than having a young stud pitcher. Case in point, the SF Giants and their 2 time Cy Young Award winning youngster.

Yes but the Giants dont have any hitters with the upside of Zimmerman or Harper.

Don't forget the chosen one....Mr. Posey

Love Buster but I just dont believe he will have the power upside of either Zimmerman or Harper. That isnt a slight on Buster at all.

lol come on...really? because of a slow start youre already dropping Sandoval out of a discussion with upside compared to Zimmerman? Zim isnt THAT good. imo Sandoval shouldve won the Silver Slugger over Zim last year. he had an avg 40 pts higher...

but anyways, you cant claim Bryce Harper is anything more than a "prospect" who could easily flame out. so many players have been "cant miss" guys. they look like those Harper type hitters, and end up crapping out. Buster Posey is hitting like a 10 year vet at the major league level at age 23. a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Zimmerman is a great 3B, but at this point id still take Sandoval and Posey over him and Harper.

besides, the Nationals clearly dont have a good understanding of how to win. i dont exactly trust them to handle these players development correctly, or support them with a team around them. at the end of their rookie contract they could be telling the Nats to kick rocks.

You are nuts. I promise you there isnt a GM in baseball that takes Panda Fat Boy over Ryan Zimmerman. Zimmerman has 35-40 hr potentia every year. He is also a much better defender. That isnt close.

I didnt say that Buster wasnt good but that Harper had the much bigger power upside. Buster will be a 15 hr guy most likely. However time will tell.

I would take Zimmerman and Harper over Posey and Panda any day of the week.

Strasburg,Harper, and Zimmerman would be chosen over Lincecum, Panda, and Posey by any GM in baseball. It would be a no brainer actually.

Zimmerman has never hit 35HR's..the most he hit was 33 and that was last year (4th full season)

Panda hit 25 in his first full season with a .330 avg...the most Zimm got before last year was 24...His defense is much better than Panda's ill give u that but Zimmerman is not that much better than Panda..the only thing he's proven over Panda is that he can hit over 30 HR's...

Harper? The guy hasn't played in the MLB ever, it's dumb to say its a no brainer. Same goes for Strasburg, he could end up like Kerry Wood..

Of course all the Giants fans will disagree with this. I've been a Giants fan longer than anyone here (except for Ron) but I also look at things objectively and know that any GM would take the Nationals 3 players for the next decade over the Giants 3. That isnt taking anything away from Lincy, Panda, or Posey. Its simply recognzing great talent.

Posey will be a damn good player but I just dont think he is going to be a middle of the order power hitting stud like Harper may be. Panda may be out of the league in 5 years if he doesnt get a handle on his weight and Zimmerman is one of the best 3b in baseball right now. timmy vs Strasburg is the interesting debate but I seriously dont see any baseball guy taking Lincecum in that.

Hahahaha. I had a feeling that I had said that earlier but didnt go back to look. I believe it though. It is amazing that someone who was so upset about this thread from the beginning still comes in even if it really isnt to contribute but just to antagonize.

well, someone has to call you on the irony right? I mean you tried to discredit niners99 argument by ridiculing a statement equal to one you made just yesterday I think.

just keeping you straight

Fair enough. I wouldnt have a problem with anyone else calling me out on it. I did make the statement similar to his. However, all you are doing is being obnoxious and antagonistic again and going in a thread that you ridiculed from the beginning. Maybe you should just stick to the MLB discussion where you think all baseball related conversation should go.

To Niner99.. I think we were both probably wrong with "guaranteeing" anything about what the other GMS would so since neither of us really know for sure. We both have our feelings though obviously.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by maximill15:
I don't think people realize the potential of Bryce Harper! I mean dude was belting homers with a wood bat as a 17 year old!!!

fast forward to about 3 min

LOl , those HRs were not with a wood bat

yeah I know, but he used a wood bat in a junior college league and cranked out a lot of jacks! This kids has it all!!

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by maximill15:
I don't think people realize the potential of Bryce Harper! I mean dude was belting homers with a wood bat as a 17 year old!!!

fast forward to about 3 min

LOl , those HRs were not with a wood bat

You are right. They weren't. However, the swing and the power is pretty impressive no matter what type of bat is used. A 17 year old hitting the ball that distance is remarkable in my opinion.