There are 51 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Would you make this deal if you were the Giants GM?

Would you make this deal if you were the Giants GM?

Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Of course he chooses all 3 east coast teams over the west coast teams. lol

He is more knowledgable on baseball talent than everyone in this room probably put together. Its just an opinion though.

he can predict the future?

I'm sorry but I'd take the Dodgers trio over ours and Tampa Bays

He didnt say he could predict the future. He is giving his opinion on who he would take and who he thinks will hold up better. I agree with him on most of it but thats pretty obvious given the thread. He does follow baseball and knows baseball better than anyone here so I guess his opinion should mean something.

there you go with your "knowledge" nonsense. an opinion is an opinion. just because he writes for Baseball America doesnt make his opinion a fact. he happens to like the Nats players longterm. i happen to like the Giants players longterm. we wont know who was right for another 10 years, so stop trying to win the argument right now. you cant.

him saying Strasburg and Johnson will hold up longer in the future is a pure guess. he hasnt even seen Strasburg pitch more than a couple starts in the majors yet. how can he predict how long he will last? the whole reason Lincecum fell to 10th overall was because everyone was all worried about his delivery, yet he has no injury history, and doesnt even have to ice his arm after starts. he pitches pain free from first pitch to last. his mechanics are perfect for his body.

prospect experts would be one of the worst opinions to get on this subject, since they all get infatuated with raw talent like Strasburg and Harper. scouts all drool over their "potential". you getting a Baseball America writer to say he thinks the Nats trio will be better in the future isnt that impressive. until weve seen Strasburgs weaknesses, and how he rebounds from them, you cant even begin to predict the career he will have.

Didnt you use this statement in your post when you tried to make a point..
"Baseball America is the foremost authority on the analysis of farm systems and prospects in baseball."

OK.. so now I email the executive editor of the site that you claim to be the foremost authority and you question his knowledge. I guess they are only good when it serves your purpose.

Of course its an opinion. No one has a crystal ball and can see the future. However
somehow I think I will value the opinion of Jim Callis who does this for a living and truly understands the game over someone like you.

By the way.. your "raw talent" Strasburg just set the ALL TIME record for K's for a pitcher in his first 3 starts. But... I guess that doesnt mean anything because he is unproven.

You are totally twisting the argument to your favor. When he mentioned baseball america, it was in reference to a PROSPECT (Villalona) being ranked #1 in the farm system.

It's valid for him to use the website to judge PROSPECTS and still criticize it for seeing more value in potential vs. established players.

I'm not twisting anything. Are you saying that the guy who is an expert on prospects suddendly doesnt have any knowledge on established players? Thats ridiculous. Jim Callis is one of the most respected men in his field and knows the game more than some amateur on the Niners Webzone. That is why I sought out his opinion. He was nice enough to respond with his opinion. Thats it.

What I find really funny though is the same guy who criticizies Callis doesnt think the Giants would trade Posey for Strasburg. He also thinks Posey is established and Strasburg is unproven. Go figure.

youve TOTALLY been twisting the things i say. you misconstrue what im trying to explain to you, and use it to talk crap. a Baseball America writer's OPINION on how good some players will end up in 10 years has literally NOTHING to do with my saying Baseball America ranked Villalona number 1 in 2007 to prove you wrong.

youve consistently through this whole argument misunderstood my statements, and instead of making sure you understand, you jump to conclusions and accuse me of being stupid.

let me map this out for you one last time. maybe this will be understood easily.

we were originally talking about a Lincecum/Sandoval/Posey for Strasburg/Zimmerman/Harper, with the emphasis on Lincecum and Strasburg, Sandoval and Zimmerman, and Posey and Harper.

i dont get why you keep taking the Strasburg/Posey argument out of context. when youre comparing Posey and Harper in that deal, hes WAY more proven. Posey has breezed through the minors, living up to the hype. hes came the majors and proven he can hit up here as well. Harper hasnt done anything yet. hes a kid with very raw potential whos years away from even being called up.

Strasburg is being compared to Lincecum in this deal, meaning Lincecum has already won 2 CY, and Strasburg has 3 starts in his career. my opinion that the Giants wouldnt deal their stud hitting catching prospect (a need position) for Strasburg (not a need position) should have nothing to do with thinking Posey is more proven than Harper, or Lincecum is more proven than Strasburg. youre mixing 2 different things.

youre coming across as an arrogant a-hole when you dismiss my opinions as "amateur", and beleive yours are fact. unless you call up Brian Sabean and get his answer to whether or not they would deal Posey for Strasburg, your opinion is just that, with no proof. a Baseball America writer can say whatever they think as well about those 3 player deals, but until 10 years from now when everything pans out, he cant be proven right either.

i disagree with your opinion, but respect it. you disagree with mine, and patronize me. youre talking down to me over an opinion you cant even prove.

i tend to side with common sense, which says "hey, a 26 year old whos already won 2 CY, a 5th overall pick catching prospect whos passed the minor league test with flying colors and is already looking like a veteran hitter at the major league level, and a 24 year old whos already finished 2nd for a batting title and 7th in an MVP voting, is a more valuable trio than a guy whos made 3 career starts, a guy whos 17 years old with no professional experience yet, and a GG 3B whos made one AS team and is a solid, proven player."

you feel differently. thats fine. i dont care that youve played, i dont care that youve umped, i dont care that youve seen more games than me (only because youre older), i dont care that youve been a Giants fan longer, and i dont care if you THINK all that means your opinions are somehow better than mine. i have no doubt in my mind that my baseball IQ is very high compared to most other fans, and that ive had enough experience with baseball in general to have a legit opinion on most anything.

i can tell that you dont like being wrong, and you dont like being disagreed with. sometimes people disagree with you, and sometimes there isnt a right or wrong answer. get over it.

You are right. I dont respect your opinion as much as I do someone that does this for a living who really knows the game. I could care less if you dont think my baseball experience means anything. I am done with you on this subject.
I still don't understand how he wouldn't take the dodgers trio. Two proven young hitters who both hit Go power and average and a young pitcher with great talent and proven with an era under 3 last year... weird IMO
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
I still don't understand how he wouldn't take the dodgers trio. Two proven young hitters who both hit Go power and average and a young pitcher with great talent and proven with an era under 3 last year... weird IMO

exactly..he's biased.

Kemp and Ethier?? They are f**king BEASTS...Kershaw is good he just doesn't go past 6 innings...but man Kemp and Ethier....I would love to have them..
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
I still don't understand how he wouldn't take the dodgers trio. Two proven young hitters who both hit Go power and average and a young pitcher with great talent and proven with an era under 3 last year... weird IMO

exactly..he's biased.

Kemp and Ethier?? They are f**king BEASTS...Kershaw is good he just doesn't go past 6 innings...but man Kemp and Ethier....I would love to have them..

And when kershaw does keep his pitch count low he's a double digit strike out kind of guy.

Not to mention most lefties don't hot their potential til they are about 30
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
I still don't understand how he wouldn't take the dodgers trio. Two proven young hitters who both hit Go power and average and a young pitcher with great talent and proven with an era under 3 last year... weird IMO

exactly..he's biased.

Kemp and Ethier?? They are f**king BEASTS...Kershaw is good he just doesn't go past 6 innings...but man Kemp and Ethier....I would love to have them..

Ya Im sure he hates LA and all West Coast teams.

I was also surprised that he put the LA trio last but I seriously doubt it is because of any bias. They are all close and all great trios. I would absolutely trade Lincy, Posey, and Panda for Kemp, Ethier, and Kershaw so I have to agree with you on this one.
Not to beat a dead horse but Keith Law from ESPN and former Blue Jays front office executive finally got back to me regarding the Nats vs Giants trio for the next decade. Since I took the time to email him I thought I would post his answer. Again, its just his opinion and I'm sure will be ridiculed from one person anyway.

Keith.

One quick question For the next decade would you prefer

Strasburg,Harper and Zimmerman or Lincecum,Sandoval, and Posey.

John

Keith's reply: 'The Nats

With that I am finished and thank all those that had constructive opinions and comments in this thread. I actually found most of it very interesting and especially enjoyed the comments from Skeet who may have disagreed but understood the idea of the thread.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Not to beat a dead horse but Keith Law from ESPN and former Blue Jays front office executive finally got back to me regarding the Nats vs Giants trio for the next decade. Since I took the time to email him I thought I would post his answer. Again, its just his opinion and I'm sure will be ridiculed from one person anyway.

Keith.

One quick question For the next decade would you prefer

Strasburg,Harper and Zimmerman or Lincecum,Sandoval, and Posey.

John

Keith's reply: 'The Nats

With that I am finished and thank all those that had constructive opinions and comments in this thread. I actually found most of it very interesting and especially enjoyed the comments from Skeet who may have disagreed but understood the idea of the thread.

if harper doesnt sign with them we need to get him
Would you still?
Linecum is playing some strange ball lately.
Get the Latest News at Giants365.com