The NBA's image problem

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Somewhere around 40% of NBA players have criminal records (according to that book). I'd say the # is around 25% or lower for the NFL.

That's a bunch of bulls**t statistics made up by a guy with an agenda to demonize the NBA.

Maybe so, but it's ridiculous to think that the NBA has a lower % of criminals than the NFL.

How so?

There are two books written on the subject, one for the NFL and one for the NBA (2004 i think). The numbers in those books found that 21% for NFL players and 40% for NBA. Why those numbers would be considered "biased" or backed by an agenda, I don't know. Regardless, it's a study and people can't just throw it out the window and say they don't believe it. What other data do we have other than our opinions?

If you DO want to go to opinion, then it doesn't take more than simple intuition to know that the NBA is filled with more "thugs" than the NFL. I could write an essay on the reasons why I believe that is so...

I saw this also and believe the data is correct. There were two books on two sports, not just one book bashing an individual sport. Crzy, I don't understand how you can accuse other people of having agendas when you obviously have the biggest agenda in this thread.

I don't agree with the last paragraph.

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Somewhere around 40% of NBA players have criminal records (according to that book). I'd say the # is around 25% or lower for the NFL.

That's a bunch of bulls**t statistics made up by a guy with an agenda to demonize the NBA.

Maybe so, but it's ridiculous to think that the NBA has a lower % of criminals than the NFL.

How so?

There are two books written on the subject, one for the NFL and one for the NBA (2004 i think). The numbers in those books found that 21% for NFL players and 40% for NBA. Why those numbers would be considered "biased" or backed by an agenda, I don't know. Regardless, it's a study and people can't just throw it out the window and say they don't believe it. What other data do we have other than our opinions?

If you DO want to go to opinion, then it doesn't take more than simple intuition to know that the NBA is filled with more "thugs" than the NFL. I could write an essay on the reasons why I believe that is so...

Yeah, but those numbers don't necessarily correlate with being a "thug". A criminal record could be a number of things that aren't associated with being thugs.

And really, the percentage of thugs may be higher in the NBA, but is it really so high that you don't consider the NFL to be full of thugs? Seems to me like you're just arguing because you dislike the NBA, or think that one sport is superior.

When the NBA All-Star game was in Vegas, who got arrested?
Adam "Pacman" Jones.

Well do you want to set the table and define the word "thug" for us? haha. True having a crim record might be for some minor offense, but that would also knock down the % for NFL players. The point is, what measure do you want for "thug?" I would think criminal record is pretty damn good.

I'm not saying the NFL is free of "thuggery," I just think it's clear that the NBAs image problem is of their own doing.

Basketball is my favorite sport to play and I love the game...I'm just not nearly as big of an NBA fan as I was growing up.

the biggest problem with the NBA, IMO, is that there aren't enough playoff games on ABC. I don't have cable so don't get TNT. Or ESPN. Or anything, really.

...well, maybe that's more my problem than its the NBA's problem.

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Somewhere around 40% of NBA players have criminal records (according to that book). I'd say the # is around 25% or lower for the NFL.

That's a bunch of bulls**t statistics made up by a guy with an agenda to demonize the NBA.

Maybe so, but it's ridiculous to think that the NBA has a lower % of criminals than the NFL.

How so?

There are two books written on the subject, one for the NFL and one for the NBA (2004 i think). The numbers in those books found that 21% for NFL players and 40% for NBA. Why those numbers would be considered "biased" or backed by an agenda, I don't know. Regardless, it's a study and people can't just throw it out the window and say they don't believe it. What other data do we have other than our opinions?

If you DO want to go to opinion, then it doesn't take more than simple intuition to know that the NBA is filled with more "thugs" than the NFL. I could write an essay on the reasons why I believe that is so...

I saw this also and believe the data is correct. There were two books on two sports, not just one book bashing an individual sport. Crzy, I don't understand how you can accuse other people of having agendas when you obviously have the biggest agenda in this thread.

I don't agree with the last paragraph.

Oh, come on! Let's not act like the amount of thugs, or the percentage of thugs, is a significant difference. The NFL has so many thugs, I could sit here and list them all day. The NBA might have a higher percentage, but if the NFL had 15 players per team, the numbers would be similar. Hell, give the NBA kickers and punters, and their stats drop.

So let's stop acting like the NFL is some league where thugs are an anomaly, and it's the norm in the NBA. They both have thugs. They both have a significant amount. But one scares white people more because you can see their scary faces and tattoos.

In reality the NFL has probably more thugs, because when you got guys that play football, to go out and WANT to lay somebody out or HIT somebody means you need to be somewhat aggressive. The NFL has a lot of guys who have gotten in trouble, but everybody blows it off. Name the last NBA player to Donte Stallworth someone and run them over? Name the last NBA player to get in trouble for shooting a bouncer at a club? Name the last NBA player to get sued for throwing a glass at someone's face in a club? Name the last NBA player to get accused of rape TWICE? You can't...

I'm a white guy saying this but I think part of it is racism. There are more white superstars in the NFL because it's a passing league and the majority of the QBs are white, so people think there's not a whole lot of thugs. And in the NBA, there are a few white stars like Nash and Dirk, but there's not a whole lot of good white players on the rest of that list that people really identify with(like they do a QB, people identify easier with a white QB than a white 7 footer like a Bogut or a Kaman). So to be honest I think part of it is racism unfortunately, and the whole officiating questions don't help the NBA either.

I didn't want to play the race card, but the lack of white superstars in the NBA does play into it somewhat.

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by crzy:
Leonard Little, Donte Stallworth, Ray Lewis, Chris Henry, Michael Vick, PacMan Jones, Santonio Holmes, Ben Rothelisberger, Rae Carruth, Pacman Jones, Marvin Harrison, OJ Simpson, Brandon Marshall, Plaxico Burress, Lawrence Phillips, Nate Newton, QUincy Carter, Michael Irvin, Dexter Manley, Eugene Robinson, Bryant McKinnie, Ricky Manning Jr, Najeh Davenport, Corey Rodgers, Rhett Bomar, Tank Johnson, Marshawn Lynch, Ryan Leaf, Quincy Carter, Travis Henry, Cedric Benson, David Meggett, Jamal Lewis, Jamal Anderson, Maurice CLarrett, Todd McNair, Charles Rodgers, Randy Moss, Matt Jones, Richard Quinn, Orlando Brown, Nick Kaczur, barrett Robbins, Jerremy Bridges, Danny Villa, Stockar McDougle, Tony Fein, LRoy Hill, Eugene Lockhart, Usama Young, Donte Whitner, Aquib Talib, Jeff Reed, Tony Zendejas, Todd Saubrun, Mike Patterson, Randy Starks, Daniel Graham



lol at the NBA having more criminals.

You seem to be missing the fact that there are 53 players on 32 teams in the NFL, as opposed to 13 players on 30 teams.

A percentage would be more accurate here.

I agree with this. And who the hell is Todd McNair?

[ Edited by Fincham11 on May 2, 2010 at 17:32:41 ]

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Somewhere around 40% of NBA players have criminal records (according to that book). I'd say the # is around 25% or lower for the NFL.

That's a bunch of bulls**t statistics made up by a guy with an agenda to demonize the NBA.

Maybe so, but it's ridiculous to think that the NBA has a lower % of criminals than the NFL.

How so?

There are two books written on the subject, one for the NFL and one for the NBA (2004 i think). The numbers in those books found that 21% for NFL players and 40% for NBA. Why those numbers would be considered "biased" or backed by an agenda, I don't know. Regardless, it's a study and people can't just throw it out the window and say they don't believe it. What other data do we have other than our opinions?

If you DO want to go to opinion, then it doesn't take more than simple intuition to know that the NBA is filled with more "thugs" than the NFL. I could write an essay on the reasons why I believe that is so...

I saw this also and believe the data is correct. There were two books on two sports, not just one book bashing an individual sport. Crzy, I don't understand how you can accuse other people of having agendas when you obviously have the biggest agenda in this thread.

I don't agree with the last paragraph.

Oh, come on! Let's not act like the amount of thugs, or the percentage of thugs, is a significant difference. The NFL has so many thugs, I could sit here and list them all day. The NBA might have a higher percentage, but if the NFL had 15 players per team, the numbers would be similar. Hell, give the NBA kickers and punters, and their stats drop.

So let's stop acting like the NFL is some league where thugs are an anomaly, and it's the norm in the NBA. They both have thugs. They both have a significant amount. But one scares white people more because you can see their scary faces and tattoos.

It is... The more people you have the more chance that there is to have criminals. The fact that the NBA has less people and a higher percentage is very telling.

The percentages say that's untrue. If the percentages were the same that would be a valid argument. Take Kickers and Punters off teams. That's around 1446 players now instead of around 1500. The NBA still has around 600 (at most) players giving each team two more players. You're reaching for straws there. The percentage is almost double even though the NBA has almost a third of the players as the NFL.


I never said that. I never said the NFL didn't have a problem with thugs. That's a big assumption to think that I feel that way.

I don't like the NBA because the officiating is horrible/biased and a majority of the players I watch seem more interested in looking good (both physically and Ego-wise[for lack of a better phrase]) than winning.

You want to look at numbers not percentages? There are more players that have records in the NFL? The NFL also has more players without records than the NBA does. There are more players in the NFL without a criminal record than there are players in the entire NBA, according to those books. . So, according to your logic, the NFL is full of saints right?

[ Edited by foreign49er on May 2, 2010 at 17:47:39 ]

I agree with pants on this one. I'd be curious to see the statistics that are being referred to in this thread.

Originally posted by crzy:
I didn't want to play the race card, but the lack of white superstars in the NBA does play into it somewhat.

Oh, well since you played it now, I guess you've convinced everybody that you are correct. I can't believe nobody thought of this yet.

I think its because you have the celebrity element to basketball. Its more famous to a certain degree.

You always see Movie or Music stars court side (you dont see that often at mlb, nhl, or nfl games).

NFL players have to go to college for at least 3 years while NBA players tend to only go for 1 year so there may be a perception that the NFL players are more educated and more mature since they are arriving in the league at an older age.

I think that may play a small part in it

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by foreign49er:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Somewhere around 40% of NBA players have criminal records (according to that book). I'd say the # is around 25% or lower for the NFL.

That's a bunch of bulls**t statistics made up by a guy with an agenda to demonize the NBA.

Maybe so, but it's ridiculous to think that the NBA has a lower % of criminals than the NFL.

How so?

There are two books written on the subject, one for the NFL and one for the NBA (2004 i think). The numbers in those books found that 21% for NFL players and 40% for NBA. Why those numbers would be considered "biased" or backed by an agenda, I don't know. Regardless, it's a study and people can't just throw it out the window and say they don't believe it. What other data do we have other than our opinions?

If you DO want to go to opinion, then it doesn't take more than simple intuition to know that the NBA is filled with more "thugs" than the NFL. I could write an essay on the reasons why I believe that is so...

I saw this also and believe the data is correct. There were two books on two sports, not just one book bashing an individual sport. Crzy, I don't understand how you can accuse other people of having agendas when you obviously have the biggest agenda in this thread.

I don't agree with the last paragraph.

Oh, come on! Let's not act like the amount of thugs, or the percentage of thugs, is a significant difference. The NFL has so many thugs, I could sit here and list them all day. The NBA might have a higher percentage, but if the NFL had 15 players per team, the numbers would be similar. Hell, give the NBA kickers and punters, and their stats drop.

So let's stop acting like the NFL is some league where thugs are an anomaly, and it's the norm in the NBA. They both have thugs. They both have a significant amount. But one scares white people more because you can see their scary faces and tattoos.

It is... The more people you have the more chance that there is to have criminals. The fact that the NBA has less people and a higher percentage is very telling.

The percentages say that's untrue. If the percentages were the same that would be a valid argument. Take Kickers and Punters off teams. That's around 1446 players now instead of around 1500. The NBA still has around 600 (at most) players giving each team two more players. You're reaching for straws there. The percentage is almost double even though the NBA has almost a third of the players as the NFL.


I never said that. I never said the NFL didn't have a problem with thugs. That's a big assumption to think that I feel that way.

I don't like the NBA because the officiating is horrible/biased and a majority of the players I watch seem more interested in looking good (both physically and Ego-wise[for lack of a better phrase]) than winning.

You want to look at numbers not percentages? There are more players that have records in the NFL? The NFL also has more players without records than the NBA does. There are more players in the NFL without a criminal record than there are players in the entire NBA, according to those books. . So, according to your logic, the NFL is full of saints right?

I never said anything about looking at numbers instead of percentages. I just said that the percentages were likely insignificant. The kicker/punter thing was a joke.

I don't think you get my point. They're equally thuggish, but there's something else that makes you feel the NBA is worse. It isn't criminal records, because you don't know what their crimes are. You're just citing that data to try to prove your point.

Then, you mention personal appearance, which is my guess as to why the NBA is considered worse. On an NFL player, you can't see more than some shin, and a little forearm. So you just avoided, up until this point, why you really feel that way, and it's because of appearance.

Who are the people that you would consider to be "thugs" in the NBA?

I don't know the percentages, but it seems like in the last 5 years the most high profile cases have been in the NFL. Vick, Big Ben, Plaxico, Pacman, Stallworth, etc.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on May 2, 2010 at 18:07:13 ]

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by crzy:
I didn't want to play the race card, but the lack of white superstars in the NBA does play into it somewhat.

Oh, well since you played it now, I guess you've convinced everybody that you are correct. I can't believe nobody thought of this yet.

I'm not trying to act like that's the primary reason.

People have the right to be disillusioned with the NBA for whatever reason.

But you're being naive if you don't think that race plays a part in this discussion.