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University of Hawaii Warriors Football 2012

Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by AZ9er:
Damn that was a disappointing game, how is it possible that you don't target Salas more often? Or if they are double teaming him that you can't complete passes to other recievers, I know Pilares was out but come on, the guys are decent.

Also why can't the craft more plays for Green, dude is a huge back, relative to Hawaii standards, give him more run options please.

Oh well, they just need to run the table and hope for a good opponent in the Hawaii bowl, maybe a Pac-10 team?

Salas was not doubled, the Boise State D Line absolutely overwhelmed the Hawaii O Line and Moniz could not handle the pressure. He was sacked 7 times and was wildly inaccurate.

This game perfectly illustrated the problem with the Run and Shoot. Without TE's and a full backfield, when faced with a dominant Defensive Line (and Boise State has an elite D Line that could match up with any team in the country) the QB is a sitting duck. Normally even a minimal amount of time and someone like Moniz, who is not a great QB, but good enough to get the ball off quickly to an area, will pick apart of a Defense by having so many weapons out running the field. But Boise State was literally in the backfield before his Receivers could make their first moves.

Boise State does not have a great secondary (although I think Iloka is a fantastic Safety) but they were able to do their job well enough and when the Hawaii Receivers did make catches they did not get any YAC.

teams that run the RnS know that. which is why bubble screens and draws are so important for this style of offense. in order to keep those pass rushers off balance. and to wear them out. Hawaii often gets away from that part of the offense, i don't know why.

but IMO this game is more to do with a mismatch in talent rather than a failure of a system.

What i never understood is why a when a big school runs the run n shoot, spread option, or any other kind of spread offense it's no longer considered to be a "gimmick" (Oregon, Florida, Texas Tech, W.Virginia)
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by AZ9er:
Damn that was a disappointing game, how is it possible that you don't target Salas more often? Or if they are double teaming him that you can't complete passes to other recievers, I know Pilares was out but come on, the guys are decent.

Also why can't the craft more plays for Green, dude is a huge back, relative to Hawaii standards, give him more run options please.

Oh well, they just need to run the table and hope for a good opponent in the Hawaii bowl, maybe a Pac-10 team?

Salas was not doubled, the Boise State D Line absolutely overwhelmed the Hawaii O Line and Moniz could not handle the pressure. He was sacked 7 times and was wildly inaccurate.

This game perfectly illustrated the problem with the Run and Shoot. Without TE's and a full backfield, when faced with a dominant Defensive Line (and Boise State has an elite D Line that could match up with any team in the country) the QB is a sitting duck. Normally even a minimal amount of time and someone like Moniz, who is not a great QB, but good enough to get the ball off quickly to an area, will pick apart of a Defense by having so many weapons out running the field. But Boise State was literally in the backfield before his Receivers could make their first moves.

Boise State does not have a great secondary (although I think Iloka is a fantastic Safety) but they were able to do their job well enough and when the Hawaii Receivers did make catches they did not get any YAC.

teams that run the RnS know that. which is why bubble screens and draws are so important for this style of offense. in order to keep those pass rushers off balance. and to wear them out. Hawaii often gets away from that part of the offense, i don't know why.

but IMO this game is more to do with a mismatch in talent rather than a failure of a system.

What i never understood is why a when a big school runs the run n shoot, spread option, or any other kind of spread offense it's no longer considered to be a "gimmick" (Oregon, Florida, Texas Tech, W.Virginia)

As to why they get away from the draws/screen; I think Hawaii tends to become a victim of their own success in a way. They rarely face good, let alone great Defenses in the WAC. They are able to pass at will in most Conference games and rack up ridiculous amounts of yardage. Running without a lead successfully takes a lot of time and effort, and has to start at the beginning of the game. Often it results in negative yardage or short gains until the Defense wears down, and Hawaii has not traditionally shown the patience to be successful in the Running game.

It may be simplistic but I think Hawaii (and their fans ((no offense guys)) tends to get caught up in the big plays, and lose focus. It is easy to sit here as an arm chair QB and say Hawaii needs to run more, but probably completely different in the heat of battle when the passes are a quick "win".

Compounding this, is that Boise State not only has an elite Defense, their Offense is just ridiculous this year. So you are the Offensive coordinator (former Run and Shoot QB also, and a pretty dang good one), and while your studs are sitting on the sideline, you are watching Boise State carve the Defense up and march down the field virtually at will.


As to the gimmick question; pretty much anything is a gimmick until it gets widely incorporated. Look at "The Pistol". Sure everyone uses it now to some degree, but Chris Ault was known as gimmicky for years because he used it.

Hell even the spread option was a gimmick when it first came out. I remember when it first started gaining popularity in the College game and people were calling it "The Sproption" () and saying it wouldn't last, etc. Now the best Offense in the country is running it.

Personally I am not a fan of the Run and Shoot. I just think it limits teams too much. They generally don't even have the personnel to deal with Goal Line/Short Yardage situations effectively, and if they do, they are not comfortable with it because so much practice time is spent on Run n Shoot formations. Obviously it is effective against inferior Defensive Lines, and gaudy stats get run up using it. I would not call it a "gimmick", it has been around way too long and has been used too much by too many smart Football people. It is just not what I would ever want for a base Offense.
  • AZ9er
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Why the heck is Nevada still ranked? I know they are 8-1 with wins over Cal and BYU, but both are having down years. I mean they lost at Hawaii and have not played Fresno or Boise. I just don't get the polls.


BTW I am not trying to argue for Hawaii to be ranked, just a little baffled as to why Nevada is
  • AZ9er
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Did not know where to post this so here goes.

So you guys living in Hawaii, what is your take on the whole Kahuku football team disqualification? Its to me the OIA was a bit overboard in its interpretation of the situation, if as the Principle said the kid was enrolled in 9th, but was sent back to 8th than his "9th" grade did not start until after he repeated 8th grade.

Just curious to see what your take is.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by AZ9er:
Did not know where to post this so here goes.

So you guys living in Hawaii, what is your take on the whole Kahuku football team disqualification? Its to me the OIA was a bit overboard in its interpretation of the situation, if as the Principle said the kid was enrolled in 9th, but was sent back to 8th than his "9th" grade did not start until after he repeated 8th grade.

Just curious to see what your take is.

Fugg Kahuku, those guys get away with s**t all the time. You should see some of their players, they look like grown men.
  • AZ9er
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Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by AZ9er:
Did not know where to post this so here goes.

So you guys living in Hawaii, what is your take on the whole Kahuku football team disqualification? Its to me the OIA was a bit overboard in its interpretation of the situation, if as the Principle said the kid was enrolled in 9th, but was sent back to 8th than his "9th" grade did not start until after he repeated 8th grade.

Just curious to see what your take is.

Fugg Kahuku, those guys get away with s**t all the time. You should see some of their players, they look like grown men.

So Kahuku, turned into the old St. Louis, with Cal Lee?
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by AZ9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by AZ9er:
Did not know where to post this so here goes.

So you guys living in Hawaii, what is your take on the whole Kahuku football team disqualification? Its to me the OIA was a bit overboard in its interpretation of the situation, if as the Principle said the kid was enrolled in 9th, but was sent back to 8th than his "9th" grade did not start until after he repeated 8th grade.

Just curious to see what your take is.

Fugg Kahuku, those guys get away with s**t all the time. You should see some of their players, they look like grown men.

So Kahuku, turned into the old St. Louis, with Cal Lee?

Both of those schools are crooked.
Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by AZ9er:
Damn that was a disappointing game, how is it possible that you don't target Salas more often? Or if they are double teaming him that you can't complete passes to other recievers, I know Pilares was out but come on, the guys are decent.

Also why can't the craft more plays for Green, dude is a huge back, relative to Hawaii standards, give him more run options please.

Oh well, they just need to run the table and hope for a good opponent in the Hawaii bowl, maybe a Pac-10 team?

Salas was not doubled, the Boise State D Line absolutely overwhelmed the Hawaii O Line and Moniz could not handle the pressure. He was sacked 7 times and was wildly inaccurate.

This game perfectly illustrated the problem with the Run and Shoot. Without TE's and a full backfield, when faced with a dominant Defensive Line (and Boise State has an elite D Line that could match up with any team in the country) the QB is a sitting duck. Normally even a minimal amount of time and someone like Moniz, who is not a great QB, but good enough to get the ball off quickly to an area, will pick apart of a Defense by having so many weapons out running the field. But Boise State was literally in the backfield before his Receivers could make their first moves.

Boise State does not have a great secondary (although I think Iloka is a fantastic Safety) but they were able to do their job well enough and when the Hawaii Receivers did make catches they did not get any YAC.

teams that run the RnS know that. which is why bubble screens and draws are so important for this style of offense. in order to keep those pass rushers off balance. and to wear them out. Hawaii often gets away from that part of the offense, i don't know why.

but IMO this game is more to do with a mismatch in talent rather than a failure of a system.

What i never understood is why a when a big school runs the run n shoot, spread option, or any other kind of spread offense it's no longer considered to be a "gimmick" (Oregon, Florida, Texas Tech, W.Virginia)

As to why they get away from the draws/screen; I think Hawaii tends to become a victim of their own success in a way. They rarely face good, let alone great Defenses in the WAC. They are able to pass at will in most Conference games and rack up ridiculous amounts of yardage. Running without a lead successfully takes a lot of time and effort, and has to start at the beginning of the game. Often it results in negative yardage or short gains until the Defense wears down, and Hawaii has not traditionally shown the patience to be successful in the Running game.

100% AGREED.

Quote:

It may be simplistic but I think Hawaii (and their fans ((no offense guys)) tends to get caught up in the big plays, and lose focus. It is easy to sit here as an arm chair QB and say Hawaii needs to run more, but probably completely different in the heat of battle when the passes are a quick "win".

that's the case for every style of offense. remember when people wanted Mooch fired and Garcia traded and we basically ditch the WCO because it was a nickle and dime offense?

Quote:

Compounding this, is that Boise State not only has an elite Defense, their Offense is just ridiculous this year. So you are the Offensive coordinator (former Run and Shoot QB also, and a pretty dang good one), and while your studs are sitting on the sideline, you are watching Boise State carve the Defense up and march down the field virtually at will.

don't remind me. but as i've said, this game was more about a mismatch in talent. and not a failure in the offensive system.

Quote:

As to the gimmick question; pretty much anything is a gimmick until it gets widely incorporated. Look at "The Pistol". Sure everyone uses it now to some degree, but Chris Ault was known as gimmicky for years because he used it.

Hell even the spread option was a gimmick when it first came out. I remember when it first started gaining popularity in the College game and people were calling it "The Sproption" () and saying it wouldn't last, etc. Now the best Offense in the country is running it.

Personally I am not a fan of the Run and Shoot. I just think it limits teams too much. They generally don't even have the personnel to deal with Goal Line/Short Yardage situations effectively, and if they do, they are not comfortable with it because so much practice time is spent on Run n Shoot formations. Obviously it is effective against inferior Defensive Lines, and gaudy stats get run up using it. I would not call it a "gimmick", it has been around way too long and has been used too much by too many smart Football people. It is just not what I would ever want for a base Offense.

personally, the RNS wouldn't be my first choice either. but i can't say i hate it. as long as the offensive coordinator can stay patient. then it's all good.

goal line situations can be addressed by implementing a little more option and bit more under center time in practice.

to each their own though.


(at least i've run into someone now at least open minded about the spread. usually i run to people that say the spread will never work with big school....... after Florida won the NC)
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by AZ9er:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by AZ9er:
Did not know where to post this so here goes.

So you guys living in Hawaii, what is your take on the whole Kahuku football team disqualification? Its to me the OIA was a bit overboard in its interpretation of the situation, if as the Principle said the kid was enrolled in 9th, but was sent back to 8th than his "9th" grade did not start until after he repeated 8th grade.

Just curious to see what your take is.

Fugg Kahuku, those guys get away with s**t all the time. You should see some of their players, they look like grown men.

So Kahuku, turned into the old St. Louis, with Cal Lee?

Both of those schools are crooked.

LOL where's jon voight and varsity blues when you need them.....
Kahuku is is a boss team. You might not like the way they run s**t, but they know football. Kahuku will always be a top team because of the bloodline..... Samoans, big nasty, fast, strong Samoans. They recruit from Samoa and always find ways to bring in horses. lol.

  • Kolohe
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HAWAII MOVING TO THE MWC IN 2012 or 2013!!!!!!

Finally some respect!!!!!

link

[ Edited by Kolohe on Nov 18, 2010 at 21:19:19 ]
Originally posted by Kolohe:
HAWAII MOVING TO THE MWC IN 2012 or 2013!!!!!!

Finally some respect!!!!!

link

Congrats but I don't know if I would say it is about respect. This almost certainly means TCU will be receiving an all-sports invite to the Big East.

The MWC has (almost) officially become the WAC 2.0.

What a shame for that Conference. Every time it looked like they were on the verge of getting AQ status a team leaves.

If Utah/BYU/TCU had stuck around, then you throw in Boise State, Hawaii, Fresno and Nevada paired with San Diego's resurgence and Air Force's dependable 8 wins and there is no way anyone could have said the Big East or ACC were more deserving of an auto bid to a BCS game.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
HAWAII MOVING TO THE MWC IN 2012 or 2013!!!!!!

Finally some respect!!!!!

link

Congrats but I don't know if I would say it is about respect. This almost certainly means TCU will be receiving an all-sports invite to the Big East.

The MWC has (almost) officially become the WAC 2.0.

What a shame for that Conference. Every time it looked like they were on the verge of getting AQ status a team leaves.

If Utah/BYU/TCU had stuck around, then you throw in Boise State, Hawaii, Fresno and Nevada paired with San Diego's resurgence and Air Force's dependable 8 wins and there is no way anyone could have said the Big East or ACC were more deserving of an auto bid to a BCS game.

Damn right its about respect, Hawaii has been the longest member of the WAC with 32 years, you think we'd get an invite if we only were a .500 team?? No sir.

And I didn't know TCU is about to leave the MWC, when is this bound to happen??
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
HAWAII MOVING TO THE MWC IN 2012 or 2013!!!!!!

Finally some respect!!!!!

link

Congrats but I don't know if I would say it is about respect. This almost certainly means TCU will be receiving an all-sports invite to the Big East.

The MWC has (almost) officially become the WAC 2.0.

What a shame for that Conference. Every time it looked like they were on the verge of getting AQ status a team leaves.

If Utah/BYU/TCU had stuck around, then you throw in Boise State, Hawaii, Fresno and Nevada paired with San Diego's resurgence and Air Force's dependable 8 wins and there is no way anyone could have said the Big East or ACC were more deserving of an auto bid to a BCS game.

Damn right its about respect, Hawaii has been the longest member of the WAC with 32 years, you think we'd get an invite if we only were a .500 team?? No sir.

And I didn't know TCU is about to leave the MWC, when is this bound to happen??

A lot of speculation that the announcement will be forthcoming within the next week or so.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,252
Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by RogueStout:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
HAWAII MOVING TO THE MWC IN 2012 or 2013!!!!!!

Finally some respect!!!!!

link

Congrats but I don't know if I would say it is about respect. This almost certainly means TCU will be receiving an all-sports invite to the Big East.

The MWC has (almost) officially become the WAC 2.0.

What a shame for that Conference. Every time it looked like they were on the verge of getting AQ status a team leaves.

If Utah/BYU/TCU had stuck around, then you throw in Boise State, Hawaii, Fresno and Nevada paired with San Diego's resurgence and Air Force's dependable 8 wins and there is no way anyone could have said the Big East or ACC were more deserving of an auto bid to a BCS game.

Damn right its about respect, Hawaii has been the longest member of the WAC with 32 years, you think we'd get an invite if we only were a .500 team?? No sir.

And I didn't know TCU is about to leave the MWC, when is this bound to happen??

A lot of speculation that the announcement will be forthcoming within the next week or so.

With Utah leaving for the PAC 12 and now TCU leaving, then yah I agree WAC 2.0.

But I'm more excited about the BYU vs. Hawaii rivalry starting back up.
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