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All22 analysis: Red Zone issues

Originally posted by thl408:
Two tendencies that stick out from the two ARI red zone possessions thus far. The 49ers wanted to run to the weak side of the formation. ARI brings the heat on Kap when he drops back to throw - man to man, no safety help, heavy pressure. ARI had lots of confidence playing man coverage on the outside. This means they liked the matchup of their CBs on the 49ers WRs and who can blame them with KW the #2 and Baldwin the #3.


Good point, little fear selling out on a blitz.

I've noitced in all of these redzone plays, if its base or jumbo (with maybe 2-3 exceptions) its a run. If its 3/4/5 WR in either gun or undercenter it has been a pass. I think there is a great opportunity to pass out of base/heavy sets and run out of gun/undercenter 3/4/5 WR sets. Now I not talking all the time, but more than 2-3 in the base situation and more than seemingly zero in the more spread out sets. Thinking of it, we did see more PA out of jumbo sets down the stretch, but I really don't recall seeing much running out of spread sets.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jun 17, 2014 at 4:23 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
I mentioned the game situation above. It must be considered when analyzing this particular red zone possession.

Point taken. But regardless of the blowout, this is a run formation that is utilized by Roman FAR too often. I think Roman is a master of intricate run formations when it comes to maneuvering our O Line. But many of the plays still result in the FB hitting the desired hole and it tips off the defense every time.

The better teams figure this out and stuff us and when this happens we tend to unravel and go into panic mode (too many eggs in one basket). All I'm saying is that I wish we'd take a few pages from the Bill Walsh playbook and learn how to mix things up a bit. I realize I'm preaching to the choir but I REALLY want to see this offense evolve away from that play and excel at keeping the defense on it's heels using more variety.

Look at the weapons we have at WR! I'll be very disappointed if Roman only expands the passing playbook by 10-15% instead sticking with that damned bread and butter FB Lead run. It's like shooting 22 caliber bullets out of 357 Magnum.
[ Edited by pete98146 on Jun 17, 2014 at 5:23 PM ]
#8
1st down
49ers: counter right as the 49ers attack the weak side of the formation.


Iupati will pull and provide the kickout block with Miller leading through the hole. The blue defender (SS Bell) is Boldin's block.


Boldin misses on the block and Bell will chase the play down from behind.


Gore gain of +3


2nd down
49ers: Boldin and KW run the Levels concept on the left. VD and Miller run a Hi-Lo on the right side. By this point in the game, it's a given that ARI will come with man coverage.
ARI: cover0


When running the Levels concept against man coverage, it's important that the slot WR (KW) releases properly off the line of scrimmage while maintaining proper distance with the WR lined up wide (Boldin). The orange arrow shows the path that KW actually took. By taking the orange path, there is no pick (interference) set on the defender covering Boldin as Boldin cuts underneath KW. Might be a moot point on this play as Kap completes the play fake and rolls right looking for VD who has his corner route properly defended by the defender (red) playing with outside leverage. Miller (blue) is covered by the SS Bell.


Boldin runs into the referee in the middle of the field. No one is open.


By slightly pushing off and coming to a quick stop, Miller gets a bit of separation. Kap is mid windup, targeting Miller.


The pass is tipped and intercepted by Bell.


[ Edited by thl408 on Jun 17, 2014 at 5:41 PM ]
^^^second down looks like it's "spider 2 y banana". Cue the gruden grilling Andrew luck video



At least kaep didn't throw the Venus, cause you never throw the Venus on spider y banana .
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jun 17, 2014 at 6:25 PM ]
Originally posted by SofaKing:

I hear tho there is this perfect gnome like qb up in the northwest that is chuck Norris-like and he can throw the Venus.
In all seriousness though, Arizona covered that play damn near perfectly. That should be a money play. You can tell that zona made kaep hold that ball longer than he wanted to.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jun 17, 2014 at 6:22 PM ]
Originally posted by Niners816:
^^^second down looks like it's "spider 2 y banana". Cue the gruden grilling Andrew luck video
At least kaep didn't throw the Venus, cause you never throw the Venus on spider y banana .

Spider 2Y Banana! You're right, the front side looked exactly the same. It even had the crossing route across the middle (Boldin). A bit of variation in that they used Levels and tried to get a pick play (rub) for the crosser. Then the ref came into the play and defeated Boldin's crosser.

Originally posted by thl408:
Spider 2Y Banana! You're right, the front side looked exactly the same. It even had the crossing route across the middle (Boldin). A bit of variation in that they used Levels and tried to get a pick play (rub) for the crosser. Then the ref came into the play and defeated Boldin's crosser.

You know I love the concept of spider. I just wish there was a way scheme/motion/shift to get VD in that FB position. Because it's true that the FB is usually open 90% of the time. Now if that held true with VD that's a lot of easy touches. Now I would be willing to bet that opposing defense would be alerting for Vernon and in that case it should open up the TE corner or the crosser. This should be our money play.
Originally posted by thl408:
Spider 2Y Banana! You're right, the front side looked exactly the same. It even had the crossing route across the middle (Boldin). A bit of variation in that they used Levels and tried to get a pick play (rub) for the crosser. Then the ref came into the play and defeated Boldin's crosser.

As I mentioned, I love the spider concept. Between the FB to the flat, the TE to the corner and the crosser from the weak side you get the Walsh triangle. Now in the play above it looks like due to the field position the TE corner really wasn't allowed to provided the vertical stretch needed to open everything else up and as you mention the umpire covered boldin Sherman-like and didn't allow the triangle to be formed in a timely manner.

Also I would be willing to bet that the levels variation you mentioned is also due to the confined space. There is just not enough room to threat the vertical in the space allowed. That why I would guess this is what our spider looks like in endZone situations.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jun 18, 2014 at 9:40 AM ]
Originally posted by Niners816:
As I mentioned, I love the spider concept. Between the FB to the flat, the TE to the corner and the crosser from the weak side you get the Walsh triangle. Now in the play above it looks like due to the field position the TE corner really wasn't allowed to provided the vertical stretch needed to open everything else up.

Also I would be willing to bet that the levels variation you mentioned is also due to the confined space. There is just not enough room to threat the vertical in the space allowed. That why I would guess this is what our spider looks like in endZone situations.

I think that's exactly right. The defender that covered VD's corner route had no fear of being beat deep since they were already in the end zone. He saw Kap roll right and knew VD would break to the outside (right). I also think that because ARI called up cover0, rushing 7, the defender covering Miller was not threatened by the play fake because he knew a blitz was coming, a blitz that would have eaten up any run play. He stayed disciplined in his pass coverage assignment (cover Miller). That said, Miller gave a nice pushoff and created some separation. I wonder what would have happened had the pass not been tipped.
Originally posted by thl408:
I think that's exactly right. The defender that covered VD's corner route had no fear of being beat deep since they were already in the end zone. He saw Kap roll right and knew VD would break to the outside (right). I also think that because ARI called up cover0, rushing 7, the defender covering Miller was not threatened by the play fake because he knew a blitz was coming, a blitz that would have eaten up any run play. He stayed disciplined in his pass coverage assignment (cover Miller). That said, Miller gave a nice pushoff and created some separation. I wonder what would have happened had the pass not been tipped.

With no tip that's a td in my mind and spider y banana get a fullback another catch. I remember this play in game and thinking kaeps gonna get ripped but it really was great defense and it still required a tip to prevent a FB td. This should be what flanker drive was to our dynasty offense, that is our go to money play. It already emulates one of our best runs and kaeps leg provide even another level of option outside of what the play does already.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jun 18, 2014 at 9:49 AM ]
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Originally posted by thl408:
Two tendencies that stick out from the two ARI red zone possessions thus far. The 49ers wanted to run to the weak side of the formation. ARI brings the heat on Kap when he drops back to throw - man to man, no safety help, heavy pressure. ARI had lots of confidence playing man coverage on the outside. This means they liked the matchup of their CBs on the 49ers WRs and who can blame them with KW the #2 and Baldwin the #3.

As much as I like the TD'S vs FG's, in the second quarter of that first AZ game, I think we scored 14 against them. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that even with a depleted receiving corps, our offense between the 20's was still pretty good. Despite all our redzone problems.
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Originally posted by thl408:
#8


On both AZ defensive plays, it looks like AZ was run blitzing. On the gore +3 play and on the Kaep interception, they were playing very aggressive run defense in my opinion. The interception was I think a very late read by Colin and he should have thrown it away or taken a sack. If anything, both in the superbowl play against the Ravens and the seadderall play in the NFC Championship game, he's had trouble dealing with blitzes in the red zone. This probably what they are working on in the offseason. If an opposing team does not have quality recievers, it makes sense for a DC to run blitz them in the redzone.
#9

1st down & 10
22 personnel with Snyder as second TE. 49ers run counter right to attack the weak side of the formation while pulling Iupati with Miller also coming across the formation.


After faking to the left for some counter action, Gore comes back to the left to take the handoff. Iupati will pull to lead. Miller will follow.


#95 Charles Johnson shoots Iupati's inside shoulder to gain penetration, to be disruptive. Miller will get the kickout block on the LB #56. #21 of CAR will come up to fill.


Once Gore sees #21 coming up to fill the hole, Gore stops and cuts back against the grain to find some daylight.


Gore for +5.


2nd down & 5
49ers: Playaction left while sneaking VD behind the line of scrimmage against the flow of the play. Mesh concept with Boldin and Ham. This play was discussed rather in depth during the season.
CAR: Looks like cover3 zone although the FS quickly will abandon his zone.


Kap completes the play fake to Gore and looks up to see this. VD has gone against the flow of the play, trying to sneak himself open. As Ham gets into his route, a poster (I want to say Joecool) said that Ham should have ran a bit of interference on the blue defender (FS). Just to get that blue defender to sidestep Ham. Ham does not do this.


Kap is mid windup, targeting VD. I think this is cover3, but the FS (blue defender) quickly has abandoned his zone to zero in on VD. Boldin and Ham are about to create the mesh, but it's not man coverage so no pick is set.


Same time as picture above. The three defenders in blue are flowing towards the sideline. Is Boldin open? It would be a tough throw for Kap to throw it across his body.


VD gets a concussion. Incomplete pass.


3rd down and 5
49ers will pull Staley right to lead for Gore. This is 11 personnel.


The key blocks here are Boone's and Goodwin's as the hole is to be in between ADavis and Boone.


Staley pulls. Boone and Goodwin double team block the DT.


Boone moves off the double team in order to block the LB #58. Boone needs to clear the lane for Staley to lead through (yellow arrow). Goodwin must sustain his block, but #99 will put up a mean fight.


Notice how much #99 has been able to flow to his left and collapse the hole that was supposed to be there for Staley to come through. Boone is about to block his man into ADavis and that will affect the play.


ADavis is seen stumbling over because Boone blocked his man into ADavis. Gore doesn't see the hole where it's supposed to be and bounces it a bit outside (yellow arrow). Gore runs right into #95, the defender that ADavis was blocking.


Gore for +4 to make it 4th & 1. The 49ers would then line up to act as if they were going to go for it on 4th down, trying to draw CAR offsides. It did not work. Bring on the FG unit.