Rosterbation - who are the 53

This seems more like Rosterotic Asphyxiation, not the good kind either...

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
I know everyone expects Okoye to make the practice squad, but there is one issue with that: PS players are free agents. If the kid shows any serious promise through minicamps/training camp/etc - and I believe he will - then the media will be hitting that story like crazy. So you get near the end of TC, you've got a 6'6, 300lb, 21 year old, world-class athlete who is showing promise...and you expose him to other teams, just for the sake of keeping around Fleming or McBath or somebody else who has a ceiling of a 3rd stringer? That's not great roster management to me. Teams like to talk about how you need all 53 to win, but you don't. If someone gets hurt, you can add guys (IR/PUP players dont count towards the 53). If this kid shows promise, I think it would be foolish to give every other NFL team free shots at him.

Fleming/Johnson, could go either way...I like Cam better.

Whitner...blegh. I know he'll probably be back, but its seriously Harbaugh's biggest blind spot. The guy can't cover and he's not the sure tackler people want to make him out to be. Get one of the young guys in there and at least have a chepa kid with upside make the mistakes that Whitner is already making.

He will still be a long way off by the end of this training camp. And any team who picks him up has to put him on their 53. And at that stage I just don't think he will be anywhere near ready. The guy would have to have an UNBELIEVABLE training camp to justify that. He is, at the least, a two year project and probably longer. For him to make the PS this year would be an amazing achievement.

Also keep in mind that Okoye can decline the other teams just like some of our practice squadders have done over the last couple of years. Its going to take a huge showing for him to earn a roster spot, he has never played organized football, he doesnt know play calls how to read defenses thats not something he is gonna pick up in one offseason

Originally posted by valrod33:
Also keep in mind that Okoye can decline the other teams just like some of our practice squadders have done over the last couple of years. Its going to take a huge showing for him to earn a roster spot, he has never played organized football, he doesnt know play calls how to read defenses thats not something he is gonna pick up in one offseason

Not a lot of defensive linemen who read the defense. He's not going to be the QB.

It's the 53rd spot. I'd rather have a freak athlete with upside than any of the other options.

Donte Whitner is a lock. Sorry bro...

Originally posted by valrod33:

Also keep in mind that Okoye can decline the other teams just like some of our practice squadders have done over the last couple of years. Its going to take a huge showing for him to earn a roster spot, he has never played organized football, he doesnt know play calls how to read defenses thats not something he is gonna pick up in one offseason

Agreed. Okoye is a great athlete but I think it's going to be rough on him early on. We should have no trouble stashing him on the practice squad. No team is going to dedicate a spot on their 53 for a guy who has never put on pads before. He won't sign with another team because we have a top notch coaching staff that is committed to teaching him the game. If he stays here, he will be rewarded big time.

Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:

Originally posted by valrod33:
Also keep in mind that Okoye can decline the other teams just like some of our practice squadders have done over the last couple of years. Its going to take a huge showing for him to earn a roster spot, he has never played organized football, he doesnt know play calls how to read defenses thats not something he is gonna pick up in one offseason

Not a lot of defensive linemen who read the defense. He's not going to be the QB.

It's the 53rd spot. I'd rather have a freak athlete with upside than any of the other options.

he doesnt even know the rules yet.....its like giving the Billy Madison education to this player

Really, whats the difference? You only dress 46. The only difference between those last 7 guys and the PS is their Free Agent eligibility, and the likelihood of them playing in a future game following an injury - when you can call guys up from the PS anyway. So for your 53rd guy, I'd rather keep the 21 year old freak athlete away from other interested teams and let them have a shot at whatever 0-snap space filler is going to be #53 instead.

Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
Really, whats the difference? You only dress 46. The only difference between those last 7 guys and the PS is their Free Agent eligibility, and the likelihood of them playing in a future game following an injury - when you can call guys up from the PS anyway. So for your 53rd guy, I'd rather keep the 21 year old freak athlete away from other interested teams and let them have a shot at whatever 0-snap space filler is going to be #53 instead.

You are giving your roster spot to a guy who has never played before, Yes he is an athlete but its gonna take time, im not saying he has no chance of making the 53 man roster because you never know but I think the odds are very slim.

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Donte Whitner is a lock. Sorry bro...

I don't know about that. Whitner has a lot of downsides. Yes, his leadership, experience, and run support will be missed. But his contract and pass coverage liability will not be missed.

To me, he has more going against him. If Reid is really, NFL ready and is as smart as he seems, I think he makes Whitner expendable.

Originally posted by blm7754:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Donte Whitner is a lock. Sorry bro...

I don't know about that. Whitner has a lot of downsides. Yes, his leadership, experience, and run support will be missed. But his contract and pass coverage liability will not be missed.

To me, he has more going against him. If Reid is really, NFL ready and is as smart as he seems, I think he makes Whitner expendable.

Lol then who plays FS? Dahl? Reid and Whitner will be our starters.

Where did all this nonsense about our safeties all sucking arse start? I swear it snowballs and has now grown out of control. Give me the best safeties of all time and put them up against Roddy White, Julio Jones, and Tony Gonzalez with no pass rush and I guarantee you they get roasted like a Thanksgiving turkey. We fielded a top five pass defense for most of the season and yet they had a couple down games and all of a sudden are trash? This is getting old.

Whitner isn't the best safety in coverage I get that but he is a STRONG safety for crying out loud. Goldson had much better range than he'll ever be given credit for by this fan base too. Way too many people judging these players entire skillsets and careers from way too few games. Its like they completely forgot about all the great plays that player made. The 49ers placed the franchise tag on Goldson once, his peers voted him to the top 100 players list, probowls, and the Bucs signed him to very lucrative deal all because he's not very good! This is coming from the fans of the team they play for!! All of these players, coaches, and professional sports organizations have no idea what they're talking about I guess. And one more thing, the term "ballhawk" is thrown around way too loosely around here. Both FS and SS have to cover, both have to tackle, and both have to be able to bring the wood. The notion that coverage safeties can't tackle and big hitters can't play coverage is ridiculous.

Donte Whitner is not the worst starting safety in the league, and it's not even close. You do realize guys like Taylor Mays, Michael Griffin, Brandon Meriweather are penciled in as starters for their teams, right? Not to mention the mash group of safeties the Rams, Cowboys, and Jets plan to go with? Sure, Whitner isn't good in coverage, but he's still fantastic as an in the box run defender... which is more than you can say about any of those other safeties.

Originally posted by toppdogg32:
I say Fleming makes it over Johnson, and we keep Whitner (1 more yr.), and put Okoye on PSquad..That's my 53..

I agree with this...

1) Fleming has gained 10 lbs. of muscle since he was drafted and now weighs 255. He can ILB or OLB and has pass rush skills. Cam Johnson goes back to the PS in my opinion. He is now healthy but probably needs some coaching up.

2) Whitner is going to make the team. First, with Goldson gone, he is the guy making the calls in the secondary. Second, he is a great teammate and leader. Third, the Niners can always keep him off the field on 3rd downs if they need to. In fact, I'm surprised they didn't do that last year.

3) A guy like Okoye is going to be put on the PS...he just has too much catching up to do. Also, guys like Manningham and Lattimore are going to be put on the PUP. I don't think you guys realize just how serious Manningham's injury was last year. That is why he took a huge pay cut. We probably won't see the real Mario until 2014 if then. It is a bummer but the Niners are probably going to have to make due with Jenkins and Patton as their 3 and 4 receivers, which may not be a bad thing.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by blm7754:

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Donte Whitner is a lock. Sorry bro...

I don't know about that. Whitner has a lot of downsides. Yes, his leadership, experience, and run support will be missed. But his contract and pass coverage liability will not be missed.

To me, he has more going against him. If Reid is really, NFL ready and is as smart as he seems, I think he makes Whitner expendable.

Lol then who plays FS? Dahl? Reid and Whitner will be our starters.

Trenton Robinson plays FS. You know, our 6th round pick last year? Great cover skills. Fell in the draft due to the fact that he's not built like a safety.

Plenty of good free safeties are short (Earl Thomas, Eric Weddle, Reggie Nelson, Mike Adams, Ed Reed).

Originally posted by DarkKnight1680:
I know everyone expects Okoye to make the practice squad, but there is one issue with that: PS players are free agents. If the kid shows any serious promise through minicamps/training camp/etc - and I believe he will - then the media will be hitting that story like crazy. So you get near the end of TC, you've got a 6'6, 300lb, 21 year old, world-class athlete who is showing promise...and you expose him to other teams, just for the sake of keeping around Fleming or McBath or somebody else who has a ceiling of a 3rd stringer? That's not great roster management to me. Teams like to talk about how you need all 53 to win, but you don't. If someone gets hurt, you can add guys (IR/PUP players dont count towards the 53). If this kid shows promise, I think it would be foolish to give every other NFL team free shots at him.

Fleming/Johnson, could go either way...I like Cam better.

Whitner...blegh. I know he'll probably be back, but its seriously Harbaugh's biggest blind spot. The guy can't cover and he's not the sure tackler people want to make him out to be. Get one of the young guys in there and at least have a cheap kid with upside make the mistakes that Whitner is already making.

I suspect there's some sort of handshake deal, where the 49ers basically say this is at least a 2 year commitment, and by being on the 49ers PS, you'd have the best chance to learn to play football and the DL position from a guy like Tomsula with NFL Europe experience. the 49ers PS would be a much better way of becoming a good player than making the 53 and being inactive on another team. This guy is smart enough to know that joining a random team's 53 man squad isn't the best for his development, unless that team promises regular starting time (which is unlikely).