Off-Season Post #1: Thoughts on the Off-Season so far (Pre-draft)...

Originally posted by Marvin49:
That was my point. It wasn't Moss so much as the way defenses PLAYED Moss. Even tho he didn't get deep very often, he had an effect by forcing them to play off. They also picked up a number of easy first downs because defenders were playing so far off. The REASON he didn't get deep too often is because defenders played off.

Boldin won't get that respect. This doesn't mean the team won't be as good as with Moss, it just means it'll be different.

I think the big difference between Boldin and Moss will be, Boldin doesnt need that respect he'd rather take the ball the hard way as opposed to Moss who actually needed that cushion this last season to get the ball.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
That rule only works for the draft.....and Colin Kaepernick.

LIES AND SLANDER I TELL YOU!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well of course!!

I'm just talking about where we stand TODAY. Alot can and will change in the coming weeks and months.

First off, awesome analysis as always! Speaking of the draft, what is your opinion on the 2012 Draft and how that turned out so far? Since then, the only players from that draft group I've heard about since are mainly James and Jenkins.

In a post, where I said there is the possibility they may draft players that are unexpected, I got this response:


"Drafting under the radar players did not work out for the 49ers last year, at least thus far.

Not one of the players contributed, except James, who only got to play when Hunter got hurt. It was as if Baalke outsmarted himself last year by going "off the radar" for guys that were valued by almost everyone else as lower than they were selected.

In this draft, Baalke needs to find 2-3 impact players, plus 2-3 other solid contributors. At this point for the 49ers, it's all about QUALITY over quantity."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1608890-why-the-san-francisco-49ers-should-be-super-bowl-favorites-for-2013#comments

Thanks for the time and effort as always Marvin49. Ran across this over at the Jets Insider and wanted to get your opinion on it-


3. Trade back from the #13 pick received from the Buccaneers to #31 with the San Francisco 49ers. The 49ers are loaded with eleven draft picks and few holes. That will allow them to trade up for Tavon Austin, who will be the final piece in their nuclear stockpile standoff with the Seattle Seahawks. In return, the Jets could receive the #31 and #34 picks.
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/4/16/4230950/three-new-york-jets-trades-that-should-happen

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
OK...if he's here for three years, at what price? 6 mil per? Is the #2 WR worth that? Does he have that much left?

I'd love to be wrong here BTW. I just don't think he's going to be huge. He'll contribute, but I'm not expecting a huge year from him.

I think he'll renegotiate sometime soon--for a three or four year deal that cuts his salary this year but guarantees more overall. Say 3.5 to 4 million this year, and three more years for a total contract of $18 million, with $8 million of it guaranteed, and backload it so if he's gone in year 4 there's no dead money there.

And I hate to disagree with you again, but I think Boldin is going to have a huge year this year. Kaep is every bit as good at throwing the ball as Flacco, and found a way to develop chemistry with Crabs almost immediately. I see the same thing happening with Boldin, doubling the open targets for Kaep on passing downs this year.

I hope you're right...but I just don't see it.

Here's hoping I'm wrong!!

Well, we know Boldin hasn't "lost a step" cause he wasn't that fast to begin with.

So he uses his size and route running ability to get open, and he still has the great hands, strength, and warrior mentality.

I can't think of any reason why he shouldn't be as good as he was last season, or even better, once he learns the Niner offense.

If he is as good as he was last year in Baltimore, that's a huge upgrade over what we had behind Crabtree last season.

Manningham is terrific, but seems really fragile. KW is good but small, and Moss was a help but ultimately too old and too focused on Moss.

I understand your caution about being too optimistic in the off season, but Boldin is a difference maker who only cost the Niners a 7th round pick. Hard not to be a little excited about him.

Sometimes one must look at what helps contribute to success for players...look around him. In this case, part of Boldin's success was having a burner (Jones on the outside) who could take the top off the defense and a constant threat. So in that regard, that is something Marvin is correct in...right now. Crabtree is a possession WR but our #1 (hate these terms). Boldin will be our #2. VD will be our speedster that defenses always have to respect BUT we have to get him out in the passing game and early (Roman is not great at this). So, to me, the success of both Crabtree and Boldin "may" be more centered on the speed, deep threat and ultra success of our slot receivers in Williams, Manningham and AJ. Another option that may help is another dominant 6'5"+ TE who is just as successful as VD and together, they just blow up the middle of the field and give DC's headaches every game with mismatch nightmares. And then, oh yeah...watch Boldin continue to make those clutch plays and TD's and 3rd downs.

That was my point. It wasn't Moss so much as the way defenses PLAYED Moss. Even tho he didn't get deep very often, he had an effect by forcing them to play off. They also picked up a number of easy first downs because defenders were playing so far off. The REASON he didn't get deep too often is because defenders played off.

Boldin won't get that respect. This doesn't mean the team won't be as good as with Moss, it just means it'll be different.

Absolutely agree! And to OND's point, both Boldin and Crabtree (by now) are used to their own skill set and how defenses play them as well...defenses may play more press coverage and use a S closer to them...to the LOS. They will have to beat these CB's off the LOS physically and fight for balls more. But like you said, if we can establish a deeper threat, it will force the S's off and they both should be a mismatch 1on1 all day, every day. Good point!

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Thanks for the time and effort as always Marvin49. Ran across this over at the Jets Insider and wanted to get your opinion on it-


3. Trade back from the #13 pick received from the Buccaneers to #31 with the San Francisco 49ers. The 49ers are loaded with eleven draft picks and few holes. That will allow them to trade up for Tavon Austin, who will be the final piece in their nuclear stockpile standoff with the Seattle Seahawks. In return, the Jets could receive the #31 and #34 picks.
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2013/4/16/4230950/three-new-york-jets-trades-that-should-happen

I'd lend it more credence if they could correctly quote the number of picks the Niners have.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Beeker:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Good stuff as usual, Marv.

I think you're a little harsh on Anquan Boldin. He was terrific in the playoffs, and obviously still has something left in the tank. And he's a fighter, a warrior. I can't think of a single WR to better go against the CBs in Seattle and their "tough guy" physical cheating . . . er, play. Boldin will make the other receivers better, too, cause defenses won't be able to focus so much on Crabs or VD.

The signing of Nnamdi is a virtually risk free gamble, and if it pays off, it may pay off really huge! I see him taking a starting CB role, and pushing someone to the bench or maybe to FS. And I think the secondary is gonna be different, and improved--more press coverage, which should allow for more ILB blitzing. And I agree with you about Woodson--maybe a later signing, but Baalke is a patient guy, like you said.

I do like Boldin. Don't get me wrong. The way its been billed tho....Seattle gets Harvin and Niners get Boldin. They are competing right? The moves aren't close to comparable.

Harvin will probably be the #1 in Seattle for the forseeable future. Boldin will probably be around for one year and be a good #2 or #3 option.

I'm not down on the move. I like Boldin...I just don't think it's as big a move as people have made it out to be.

I have to disagree a bit here Marvin. I think Boldin stays for more than one year. I think he's here for 3 years. His biggest asset for the 49ers will be on 3rd down and in the RZ. Toss it up there, and he'll most likely come down with it. That has been a strength of his his entire career. He's big, strong, and has a wrestlers mentality. I can think of a TON of plays last year where it would have been awesome to have Boldin along with Crabs and VD.

Mark my words - 3rd down and RZ.

Other than that, Outstanding edition of the Marvthoirtah Report!

OK...if he's here for three years, at what price? 6 mil per? Is the #2 WR worth that? Does he have that much left?

I'd love to be wrong here BTW. I just don't think he's going to be huge. He'll contribute, but I'm not expecting a huge year from him.

IF he performs as expected this coming season, how about giving him a three year 15 million contract with 10 million guaranteed? Still too high?

Originally posted by ayetee:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Beeker:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Good stuff as usual, Marv.

I think you're a little harsh on Anquan Boldin. He was terrific in the playoffs, and obviously still has something left in the tank. And he's a fighter, a warrior. I can't think of a single WR to better go against the CBs in Seattle and their "tough guy" physical cheating . . . er, play. Boldin will make the other receivers better, too, cause defenses won't be able to focus so much on Crabs or VD.

The signing of Nnamdi is a virtually risk free gamble, and if it pays off, it may pay off really huge! I see him taking a starting CB role, and pushing someone to the bench or maybe to FS. And I think the secondary is gonna be different, and improved--more press coverage, which should allow for more ILB blitzing. And I agree with you about Woodson--maybe a later signing, but Baalke is a patient guy, like you said.

I do like Boldin. Don't get me wrong. The way its been billed tho....Seattle gets Harvin and Niners get Boldin. They are competing right? The moves aren't close to comparable.

Harvin will probably be the #1 in Seattle for the forseeable future. Boldin will probably be around for one year and be a good #2 or #3 option.

I'm not down on the move. I like Boldin...I just don't think it's as big a move as people have made it out to be.

I have to disagree a bit here Marvin. I think Boldin stays for more than one year. I think he's here for 3 years. His biggest asset for the 49ers will be on 3rd down and in the RZ. Toss it up there, and he'll most likely come down with it. That has been a strength of his his entire career. He's big, strong, and has a wrestlers mentality. I can think of a TON of plays last year where it would have been awesome to have Boldin along with Crabs and VD.

Mark my words - 3rd down and RZ.

Other than that, Outstanding edition of the Marvthoirtah Report!

OK...if he's here for three years, at what price? 6 mil per? Is the #2 WR worth that? Does he have that much left?

I'd love to be wrong here BTW. I just don't think he's going to be huge. He'll contribute, but I'm not expecting a huge year from him.

IF he performs as expected this coming season, how about giving him a three year 15 million contract with 10 million guaranteed? Still too high?

Well what is "as expected"? I expect 600-800 yards and 5 or 6 TDs. Remember, he'll be a #2 WR. Yes, those numbers are too high if that's what he'll produce.

Even as a #2 WR, he'll be no better than the third option in the pass game (Crabtree, Vernon).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
OK...if he's here for three years, at what price? 6 mil per? Is the #2 WR worth that? Does he have that much left?

I'd love to be wrong here BTW. I just don't think he's going to be huge. He'll contribute, but I'm not expecting a huge year from him.

I think he'll renegotiate sometime soon--for a three or four year deal that cuts his salary this year but guarantees more overall. Say 3.5 to 4 million this year, and three more years for a total contract of $18 million, with $8 million of it guaranteed, and backload it so if he's gone in year 4 there's no dead money there.

And I hate to disagree with you again, but I think Boldin is going to have a huge year this year. Kaep is every bit as good at throwing the ball as Flacco, and found a way to develop chemistry with Crabs almost immediately. I see the same thing happening with Boldin, doubling the open targets for Kaep on passing downs this year.

I hope you're right...but I just don't see it.

Here's hoping I'm wrong!!

Well, we know Boldin hasn't "lost a step" cause he wasn't that fast to begin with.

So he uses his size and route running ability to get open, and he still has the great hands, strength, and warrior mentality.

I can't think of any reason why he shouldn't be as good as he was last season, or even better, once he learns the Niner offense.

If he is as good as he was last year in Baltimore, that's a huge upgrade over what we had behind Crabtree last season.

Manningham is terrific, but seems really fragile. KW is good but small, and Moss was a help but ultimately too old and too focused on Moss.

I understand your caution about being too optimistic in the off season, but Boldin is a difference maker who only cost the Niners a 7th round pick. Hard not to be a little excited about him.

Sometimes one must look at what helps contribute to success for players...look around him. In this case, part of Boldin's success was having a burner (Jones on the outside) who could take the top off the defense and a constant threat. So in that regard, that is something Marvin is correct in...right now. Crabtree is a possession WR but our #1 (hate these terms). Boldin will be our #2. VD will be our speedster that defenses always have to respect BUT we have to get him out in the passing game and early (Roman is not great at this). So, to me, the success of both Crabtree and Boldin "may" be more centered on the speed, deep threat and ultra success of our slot receivers in Williams, Manningham and AJ. Another option that may help is another dominant 6'5"+ TE who is just as successful as VD and together, they just blow up the middle of the field and give DC's headaches every game with mismatch nightmares. And then, oh yeah...watch Boldin continue to make those clutch plays and TD's and 3rd downs.

Frankly, I believe both Crabtree and Boldin are crafty enough, shifty enough, good enough route runners, and tough enough to beat double teams. And now there are two of them on the field at the same time--one is always gonna get open, even if both are double covered. IMHO.

You are, of course, correct that their jobs would be made easier with a speed receiver, a deep threat who would force safetys to stay back. Along with VD, enter Morrah, Lockett, KW, AJ and perhaps a WR draft pick. I think they're gonna need a couple of deep threats, so they can spell each other rather than one guy running deep routes every play.

And of course it helps that there's a QB with the arm strength to make deep throws with accuracy as well as fire the ball into the smaller windows allowed by double coverage.

I still say its hard not to get somewhat excited at the addition of Anquan Boldin.

Marvin, extremely thoughtful and encompassing look at the pre-draft 9ers. A few thoughts:

1. Kap...I share your enthusiasm.

2. Dorsey....Agree Soap had fallen off and then we get Dorsey at half what Soap signed for in Philly. They overpaid, we didn't. I hope you are correct about Dorsey being a good runstopper...that remains to be seen.

3. Boldin...Marv, I hate to disagree, but I think Boldin is 4X the player Moss was. Besides, aside from Jacoby and Hernandez, how many other guys in the NFL can consistently make the sideline jumpball catch? Right, darn few. Boldin is a chain mover and RZ bonanza we haven't had since guys like Dwight Clark, et al. Who cares if he stretches the field lengthwise? Anquan stretches it side to side...every stinking inch. Cushion or not, sideline jumpballs...they go to Anquan. He is the 3rd down playmaker we have needed the last 2 yrs to be a complete O. As for salary at $6 mil /yr, he is a steal and will probably have to restructure to $4-5 mil/yr but with more guaranteed.

I think the plan here was to compete w/ the sideline jumpball b.s., move the chains, and eliminate need for the tier 1 WR in this draft. Mission accomplished. If he does well and gets extended, even better. But he better play like it or he is 1 yr wonder.

4.Colt ...As a dyed in the wool Longhorn fan, I needn't say much. Great arm, great head on his shoulders, excellent runner, tough, and he started 4 yrs at UT. Also he had a # of starts at Cleveland until the concussion. Weeden did to him what Kap did to alex...except Weeden is no Alex. What i wonder is why did Raids, Cards, Jax, Jets, not to mention cleveland and philly did not pull the trigger on him? And at $1mil? That is a ridiculous bargain and he is way, way better than the QB slugs at the aforementioned teams who are "starters". The truly great part is that if Kap gets hurt, Colt comes in and won't miss a beat. What a phenomenal QB to have as backup.

5.Nnamdi ....agree 100%.

6. Phil Dawson....baalke is amazing.

7. Woodson...agree, he'll probably be here after the draft. We probably won't be able to sign a top tier FS, but who is to say which of the 8 or 9 FSs in draft is best.

8. Summary so far: Ouch!. We have:

improved backup QB who is ready to go
improved dramatically the STs
improved over Soap( i hope)
acquired a 3rd down machine in Anquan
acquired a FS who virtually agreed to play for free if he doesn't make team...and he is hungry to get his rep back.
huge PK improvement, worth 9-12 guaranteed pts/game if needed.
acquired a high 2nd rd pick this yr and another in 2014

Marvin, we haven't even made it to draft yet (w/ 13 picks), and looking at above, I am mystified how you can think we are net negative. We gotta have two top tier DLs, and at #31 and 34, BPA will be two DLs. True we have to settle for a 2nd tier FS, but who is to say which FSs will be top tier?

9. Draft: Agreed, favorite time of yr as long as noln, erikson and B.M. are not HC. I like your two picks, altho i expect 2 DLs drafting BPA. Hunt is excellent, so are sly and jesse Williams. I love ertz at TE, but that is minor need compared to 2 DLs and FS. Fourth pick I honestly believe we go BPA OT, but board could change a lot with QBs being taken way above where they should have been. No idea who we take at #5, but another FS, TE, maybe WR, and then I think that is it. I believe baalke takes only 5 picks plus 3 comps( PK, and 2 true BPAs). Remaining 5 picks all go into pushing our 5 picks up the board. He could also bank roll 2 or 3 picks as upgrade into 2014.

10. Offseason Championship: I hope you are not whistling Dixie here. SEA IS vastly improved, and we are much improved. We catch up in the draft where they have no #1 ( or is it #2) pick, due to Harvin. It seems Marvin, that you aren't buying SEA is dramatically better than last yr. I sure hope you are right, but i suspect they are as much better as it seems. Last yr I thot their HC was a jackazz. Wrong. Like it or not he is very good, and I am afraid McCloughan has helped him a lot with talent.

I won't miss Dashon's dumb azz penalties, nor will i miss his "great coverage", yet he allowed the pass to be completed. And against Jacoby and Boldin, Goldson made good tackles, but didn't, to my recollection, break up any passes....good riddance.

Cheer up Marvin, we done good...maybe great with not much. FA has been pure Baalke, and once again he pulled rabbits out of hats

Nice to see these posts, they were a highlight last season. Keep up the good work!

Now...

• I agree with you about Anquan. I think that will one of those trades that looks the best when the trade was made, and it wont be a huge difference for us in the long run.

• You mentioned we have 9 picks next year. Do you know which ones? I know we have a 2/3 from the Chiefs, but what's the other pick?
• I also agree that the draft is a great time of year for sports!

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Nice to see these posts, they were a highlight last season. Keep up the good work!

Now...

• I agree with you about Anquan. I think that will one of those trades that looks the best when the trade was made, and it wont be a huge difference for us in the long run.

• You mentioned we have 9 picks next year. Do you know which ones? I know we have a 2/3 from the Chiefs, but what's the other pick?
• I also agree that the draft is a great time of year for sports!

10 picks, per Matt Barrows...

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Marvin, extremely thoughtful and encompassing look at the pre-draft 9ers. A few thoughts:

1. Kap...I share your enthusiasm.

2. Dorsey....Agree Soap had fallen off and then we get Dorsey at half what Soap signed for in Philly. They overpaid, we didn't. I hope you are correct about Dorsey being a good runstopper...that remains to be seen.

3. Boldin...Marv, I hate to disagree, but I think Boldin is 4X the player Moss was. Besides, aside from Jacoby and Hernandez, how many other guys in the NFL can consistently make the sideline jumpball catch? Right, darn few. Boldin is a chain mover and RZ bonanza we haven't had since guys like Dwight Clark, et al. Who cares if he stretches the field lengthwise? Anquan stretches it side to side...every stinking inch. Cushion or not, sideline jumpballs...they go to Anquan. He is the 3rd down playmaker we have needed the last 2 yrs to be a complete O. As for salary at $6 mil /yr, he is a steal and will probably have to restructure to $4-5 mil/yr but with more guaranteed.

I think the plan here was to compete w/ the sideline jumpball b.s., move the chains, and eliminate need for the tier 1 WR in this draft. Mission accomplished. If he does well and gets extended, even better. But he better play like it or he is 1 yr wonder.

4.Colt ...As a dyed in the wool Longhorn fan, I needn't say much. Great arm, great head on his shoulders, excellent runner, tough, and he started 4 yrs at UT. Also he had a # of starts at Cleveland until the concussion. Weeden did to him what Kap did to alex...except Weeden is no Alex. What i wonder is why did Raids, Cards, Jax, Jets, not to mention cleveland and philly did not pull the trigger on him? And at $1mil? That is a ridiculous bargain and he is way, way better than the QB slugs at the aforementioned teams who are "starters". The truly great part is that if Kap gets hurt, Colt comes in and won't miss a beat. What a phenomenal QB to have as backup.

5.Nnamdi ....agree 100%.

6. Phil Dawson....baalke is amazing.

7. Woodson...agree, he'll probably be here after the draft. We probably won't be able to sign a top tier FS, but who is to say which of the 8 or 9 FSs in draft is best.

8. Summary so far: Ouch!. We have:

improved backup QB who is ready to go
improved dramatically the STs
improved over Soap( i hope)
acquired a 3rd down machine in Anquan
acquired a FS who virtually agreed to play for free if he doesn't make team...and he is hungry to get his rep back.
huge PK improvement, worth 9-12 guaranteed pts/game if needed.
acquired a high 2nd rd pick this yr and another in 2014

Marvin, we haven't even made it to draft yet (w/ 13 picks), and looking at above, I am mystified how you can think we are net negative. We gotta have two top tier DLs, and at #31 and 34, BPA will be two DLs. True we have to settle for a 2nd tier FS, but who is to say which FSs will be top tier?

9. Draft: Agreed, favorite time of yr as long as noln, erikson and B.M. are not HC. I like your two picks, altho i expect 2 DLs drafting BPA. Hunt is excellent, so are sly and jesse Williams. I love ertz at TE, but that is minor need compared to 2 DLs and FS. Fourth pick I honestly believe we go BPA OT, but board could change a lot with QBs being taken way above where they should have been. No idea who we take at #5, but another FS, TE, maybe WR, and then I think that is it. I believe baalke takes only 5 picks plus 3 comps( PK, and 2 true BPAs). Remaining 5 picks all go into pushing our 5 picks up the board. He could also bank roll 2 or 3 picks as upgrade into 2014.

10. Offseason Championship: I hope you are not whistling Dixie here. SEA IS vastly improved, and we are much improved. We catch up in the draft where they have no #1 ( or is it #2) pick, due to Harvin. It seems Marvin, that you aren't buying SEA is dramatically better than last yr. I sure hope you are right, but i suspect they are as much better as it seems. Last yr I thot their HC was a jackazz. Wrong. Like it or not he is very good, and I am afraid McCloughan has helped him a lot with talent.

I won't miss Dashon's dumb azz penalties, nor will i miss his "great coverage", yet he allowed the pass to be completed. And against Jacoby and Boldin, Goldson made good tackles, but didn't, to my recollection, break up any passes....good riddance.

Cheer up Marvin, we done good...maybe great with not much. FA has been pure Baalke, and once again he pulled rabbits out of hats

OK....

#3) Boldin: It would appear you aren't alone in disagreeing with me on this one. Don't get me wrong. I like the player. I just don't think he'll have the kind of impact some in the medai say he will. I hope I'm wrong.

#8) I think peeps are misunderstanding what I mean by "net negative". First, I mean RIGHT NOW. PRE-Draft. I'm not accounting for what happens next week. Second, I'm talking into account wh was on the roster last year and is no longer. McCoy isn't an UPGRADE behind Kaep because Alex was the backup. BTW, Asomugha isn't gonna be a FS. He can't play zone. Thats not a guy you want at FS. I'm not accounting for the picks. I'm just talking about where the team stands TODAY, not where it'll be 2 weeks from now.

Where it stands today is without a FS. It stands without a quality #2 TE in an offense that runs 2 TEs ALOT. Is Anquan an upgrade? Sure...I just think the holes that haven't been filled outweigh they additions. Thats all. A good draft can change all of that.

I think we have had a good off-season. We might be slightly down but we obviously still have the draft and more FA that could happen (Woodson).

We did lose Goldson, Issac, Walker, Akers, Ginn, Moss, Alex, and RJF so far.

With that being said only Goldson is a pretty big loss and got overpaid. Issac, Walker, RJF all got overpaid and we have replaced everyone but Walker with upgrades IMO at lower prices. Dorsey is better than Issac. RJF should be able to be replaced by Ian. Will work on replacing Walker, but it's not that amazing of a loss.

We added Dorsey, Nnamdi, Dawson, Boldin, Colt. While I think Colt is a downgrade from Alex but he's much better value. NNamdi is great value so is Dorsey. Boldin is a little expensive but gotten for effectively nothing.

I'm excited to see what happens. A full year with in off-season drills. You have VD, Jenkins, Crab, and others who will improve. Our losses have been minimal and our gains have been pretty strong and we aren't done yet. I bet we draft a FS in the draft and bring in Woodson for 1 year as a fill in. While Goldson was pretty good, he had his issues b/c he and Whitner are both truly SSs.

Getting a TE who is as good as Walker in the draft should not be tough especially if we use a pick from the first 4 rounds. Walker did bring it on special teams and did work well in the running game but honestly, the guy couldn't catch and we could easily upgrade him in the draft.

Marvin there is another way to take care of FS...and that is with a dynamic, 35 pts/game Offense. I wasn't that hot on Ertz....and then I saw his tape and the NFL channel "science" on Ertz. If Ertz is taken high, along with two DLs, so what if our FS can't cover. With Ertz, vernon, crbs, anquan, (maybe mario, maybe AJ) plus LMJ and with kyle back, and the exceptional Kap at Qb, why not just go out and outscore everybody like NE. True we are so close to a really solid 11 man D....and it would be nice to have the FS and SS with CBs to stop Offenses cold. But if we don' t get that FS we have to have this yr, why not just get ERtz, and outscore everyone we play. Maybe said slightly in jest, but think about it for moment, considering our RBs an QB. It could happen.

Other thing is : so we don't move up 15 slots or more to get our FS. How does anyone KNOW who the best FS is? I've seen a lot of film and for me it is a pick 'em, altho, sure I like vaccaro best. Still we could take a 2nd tier FS( and trent and jH will know which guy it is) and find he is really a top tier FS, even tho taken in rd 2.