There are 163 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Agree?: Lack of Depth Lead to our Bad Pass D

Depth is a concern but so is personnel. No one wants to say it so I will:

Aldon Smith is mediocre against the run, and sucks in coverage.

Last year the only thing we did differently defensively was sub Haralson out for Smith on passing downs. That right there should tell you where the problem lies.

Teams have figured him out. Like Ndamukong Suh, all you have to do is run at him. Between that and him running himself out of the play by constantly over pursuing, he'll wear down and then we become (even more) vulnerable down the field.

Justin Smith getting hurt was a big blow, but there's simply no reason why without him to occupy blockers for Aldon, our pass rush becomes virtually non-existent.

So the solution here is to yes, add more depth but we also need to tweak the scheme. Blitzing Willis and Bowman more would be a good start.
  • dmax
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,145
went justin went down..we couldnt get to the qb.thus our cbs were exposed...something needs to be done
Lack of the starters not getting it done led to the wack secondary play. The front 7 and secondary didn't step up and play well. They need to focus on improving all units. Instead of trying to place blame all on one unit b/c it appears like a easy fix to fix one unit over multiple. They could have had 7 Reggie Whites in the front 7 and Culliver & Whitner would still be lost. No doubt they need to draft d line man. They should draft them every year. Plus we need to figure out if Fangio is against a lot of subs or just doesn't trust the guys they currently have.
[ Edited by lamontb on Feb 20, 2013 at 9:29 AM ]
Originally posted by Wubbie:
But here's the question, how much faith do you have in Tukuafu, RJF, Dobbs, and our other back-up front 7 players? Personally, I thought we'd be fine if they ever came into the game, yet the coaching staff rarely subs them in. Are the backups not even rotation-quality players, or does the coaching staff not want to sub out our starters? Thoughts?

This! We also had Haggans, an experienced vet who could have spelled Aldon as well and save him ala Gore/Hunter for the end of the season and maximize his potential. Yet we rarely used him. Dobbs injury did hurt but they used RJF a bit and he seemed to do better at RDE than NT (by far). I think coaching was the issue here and their philosophy of not utilizing a rotation like many other teams use to stay fresh. I think it's even more critical when you run a 3-4 as well. You need to have 6 quality starters here to wear down that OL and stuff the run and maximize your 4 pass rushers.
Originally posted by baltien:
Depth is a concern but so is personnel. No one wants to say it so I will:

Aldon Smith is mediocre against the run, and sucks in coverage.

Last year the only thing we did differently defensively was sub Haralson out for Smith on passing downs. That right there should tell you where the problem lies.

Teams have figured him out. Like Ndamukong Suh, all you have to do is run at him. Between that and him running himself out of the play by constantly over pursuing, he'll wear down and then we become (even more) vulnerable down the field.

Justin Smith getting hurt was a big blow, but there's simply no reason why without him to occupy blockers for Aldon, our pass rush becomes virtually non-existent.

So the solution here is to yes, add more depth but we also need to tweak the scheme. Blitzing Willis and Bowman more would be a good start.

100% agree!

Nobody even bothers to run on Brooks side...ever. Brooks knows exactly what spot upfield to get to to either force the RB inside, tackle him himself or continue on the pashrush (knock down passes). Aldon is all over the map and all his talk about being double-teamed? I didn't see it. In fact, Brooks remains the guy that is double-teamed b/c he plays on the strong side (SAM - where the TE typically lines up). Brooks is stronger at the POC and keeps his eyes in the backfield (a point Baalke made when drafting Aldon). This year, teams seemed to run at Aldon and he seemed more concerned with the one blocker on him than using proper technique and getting upfield to the right spot where he can force the RB inside, contain the edge, tackle the RB or continue on to the QB. And the dude is 8" tall and has he had one knock-down pass?

And if he and Justin were hurt that badly (and it seemed like they were), why were they playing FT?

A two-gap NT would be ideal for our team (no more one-gapper-slashers). Period. It will help about three waves of defenders around and behind him. We also need a taller, stronger DE to rotate with Justin/McDonald. I'm not very impressed with McDonald at all and would love someone who is taller, can time his jumps, push/collapse the pocket and push the OL backwards vs. just holding the edge. Just b/c we run a 3-4 it doesn't mean we can't pay in the backfield.

Some of this is on the coaches/their philosophy!
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 20, 2013 at 9:44 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
But here's the question, how much faith do you have in Tukuafu, RJF, Dobbs, and our other back-up front 7 players? Personally, I thought we'd be fine if they ever came into the game, yet the coaching staff rarely subs them in. Are the backups not even rotation-quality players, or does the coaching staff not want to sub out our starters? Thoughts?

This! We also had Haggans, an experienced vet who could have spelled Aldon as well and save him ala Gore/Hunter for the end of the season and maximize his potential. Yet we rarely used him. Dobbs injury did hurt but they used RJF a bit and he seemed to do better at RDE than NT (by far). I think coaching was the issue here and their philosophy of not utilizing a rotation like many other teams use to stay fresh. I think it's even more critical when you run a 3-4 as well. You need to have 6 quality starters here to wear down that OL and stuff the run and maximize your 4 pass rushers.

do you mean 6 quality starters for the d-line? if so, that aint happening
Originally posted by crabman82:
do you mean 6 quality starters for the d-line? if so, that aint happening

Why not? McDonald, Sopoaga and Smith were the starters but Harbaugh felt RJF was a starter as well and Dobbs seemed to be ideal at RDE. There is no reason we can't upgrade the DL and use a heavy rotation like we did with Gore/Hunter/James.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,757
Originally posted by dmax:
went justin went down..we couldnt get to the qb.thus our cbs were exposed...something needs to be done
it should be very very scary that one person or the lack of one person can have such a negative impact on our team. aldon needs to get in better shape, he needs to learn to not be so dependent on justin. the team needs depth on the line,, they needed last year but it was ignored. also i think the coaches did a bad job of using our talent like willis and bowman. i think we could have easily brought them with pressure much more than what we did. i think this should have been done in the super bowl. what the hell good is it to have two pro bowl guys setting around playing checkers in pass coverage. sure that is important but i think they could have been used a bit more than what they were
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,757
Originally posted by 9moon:
Personally, the only difference from last year was that Carlos Rogers hauled in more INTs.. This year, as solid as he was, he dropped about 4 INTs and QBs didn't hesitate to throw the ball on his side..

Another reason in my opinion is that aside from the 1st game (GBay), we didn't really call a lot of blits this year..

Chris Culliver also played w/ too much confidence that lead to penalties after penalties.. By the time we got in the playoffs, those freakin zebras just blew their whistles even when Culliver was not guilty.. Just like that 3rd down play in the Super Bowl..

Why can't the competition committee include the refs and have an agreement that foolish defensive past interference should also be called when the offensive player is guilty as well..
maybe if our secondary would not act like the keystone cops half the time we would not have to go to the nfl and ask for thier help to make our secondary better
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crabman82:
do you mean 6 quality starters for the d-line? if so, that aint happening

Why not? McDonald, Sopoaga and Smith were the starters but Harbaugh felt RJF was a starter as well and Dobbs seemed to be ideal at RDE. There is no reason we can't upgrade the DL and use a heavy rotation like we did with Gore/Hunter/James.


jim harbaugh also said he thought he had 5 #1 wr's before the season remember? they'll have 6 d-lineman on the roster, but quality starters? i dont think so. it will be more like the starters from last year plus another 2 guys they feel comfortable with to rotate, but that doesnt make them quality starters.
[ Edited by crabman82 on Feb 20, 2013 at 9:54 AM ]
Originally posted by cciowa:
it should be very very scary that one person or the lack of one person can have such a negative impact on our team. aldon needs to get in better shape, he needs to learn to not be so dependent on justin. the team needs depth on the line,, they needed last year but it was ignored. also i think the coaches did a bad job of using our talent like willis and bowman. i think we could have easily brought them with pressure much more than what we did. i think this should have been done in the super bowl. what the hell good is it to have two pro bowl guys setting around playing checkers in pass coverage. sure that is important but i think they could have been used a bit more than what they were

Totally agreed. Some of Brooks best plays (pick 6, sacks, pressures) were from moving him around and lining up at DT, RDE, delayed blitzes, etc. Aldon had some mild success with this as well. But for the most part, Aldon, Willis and Bowman played straight up and predictable. Now, I understand the underneath coverage by the MLB's but they were still beat badly primarily b/c our S's can't cover the middle of the field and esp. can't do it solo. Conversely, the Raven's brought the house on all 4 final downs with ONE safety back (Reed). So why not utilize the 4 LBers to create mismatches and create confusion like a 3-4 is designed to do? I don't get it. I had this same issue with Nolan and now with Vic. I think two solutions to this is a two-gap NT and a true FS (sign/move Goldson to SS). But these S's need to be able to cover solo. We were weak, very weak again, right down the middle of the field in pressure AND coverage esp. in the RZ.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crabman82:
do you mean 6 quality starters for the d-line? if so, that aint happening

Why not? McDonald, Sopoaga and Smith were the starters but Harbaugh felt RJF was a starter as well and Dobbs seemed to be ideal at RDE. There is no reason we can't upgrade the DL and use a heavy rotation like we did with Gore/Hunter/James.


jim harbaugh also said he thought he had 5 #1 wr's before the season remember? they'll have 6 d-lineman on the roster, but quality starters? i dont think so. it will be more like the starters from last year plus another 2 guys they feel comfortable with to rotate, but that doesnt make them quality starters.

Agreed...to me personally, I don't think much of RJF and have no idea about Ian. That said, Dobbs seemed to be for real and that doesn't mean we can't bring in quality starters to rotate this offseason. We have 14+ draft picks and FA.

While the DL in a 3-4 is not exactly a glorified position, don't be surprised to see some quality DL brought in to rotate more and even push for a starting position (esp. at NT). There is no reason why we can't have 6 quality starting caliber players on the DL splitting the load.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crabman82:
do you mean 6 quality starters for the d-line? if so, that aint happening

Why not? McDonald, Sopoaga and Smith were the starters but Harbaugh felt RJF was a starter as well and Dobbs seemed to be ideal at RDE. There is no reason we can't upgrade the DL and use a heavy rotation like we did with Gore/Hunter/James.


jim harbaugh also said he thought he had 5 #1 wr's before the season remember? they'll have 6 d-lineman on the roster, but quality starters? i dont think so. it will be more like the starters from last year plus another 2 guys they feel comfortable with to rotate, but that doesnt make them quality starters.

Agreed...to me personally, I don't think much of RJF and have no idea about Ian. That said, Dobbs seemed to be for real and that doesn't mean we can't bring in quality starters to rotate this offseason. We have 14+ draft picks and FA.

While the DL in a 3-4 is not exactly a glorified position, don't be surprised to see some quality DL brought in to rotate more and even push for a starting position (esp. at NT). There is no reason why we can't have 6 quality starting caliber players on the DL splitting the load.


if we draft and develop them, sure its possible, but how long until they're quality starters? we wont be signing guys like starks (i know quite a few want him) i like dobbs a lot, think he has chance to be a future starter.
I told you, Whitner is still suck and nope talent at coverage.. He is bad read the offense.. You don't doubt me cuz u are late for delay.. Now u see Whitner was stink for plays at Super Bowl Championship! I am very disappoined about A. Smith #99 is fail for nope sacks in playoff championship but A.Smith is very good for sacks at Regulars than Playoff? Hmm.. interest... I wonder about that..
I think Dilfer was right on the money. He said all year our defense was pretty basic we just would wear teams down bc we were so physical. We have to do a better job of disguising things pre snap