Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by real9erfan:
Based on what Harbaugh said in his press conference, it doesn't sound like they will just release Alex.

Hinted they might keep him on the roster...oh..some people are gonna hate that.

I'm guessing it is posturing so they can get more value in a trade.

I hope they do keep him if they can reduce his salary. I've always believed Alex would be a great back up QB.

Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think when we seemingly changed to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

No. He can't run for 183 yards.

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

Kaep had one of the highest QBR of the playoffs.

The Defensive failure was what hurt us and I don't think Alex overcomes that much bad defense.

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

This is exactly how I feel about the whole thing. What irks me to no end is that people view it as a Kaep vs. Alex thing, when it isn't. I think Kaep is more than capable of playing the slower, more methodical, efficient style of offense. But Harbaugh won't let him do it. What the reason is, who knows.

I prefer the more controlled style of offense. Take chances when the opportunity presents itself, don't just force the issue constantly. You may lose some games by being "too conservative," but you enable your team to be competitive and in EVERY game. Over time, that efficiency and control increases, so by year 3, 4, 5 of a system like that - you have a well oiled machine. THAT is how the 49ers dynasty was built.

I preferred Smith for this style because of his skill set and experience. Kaepernick has shown that he has more than enough ability, but has also shown a lack of experience. It will take a lot more time for him to get as comfortable with it as Smith was, if Harbaugh ever even returns to this type of offensive mindset.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

Kaep had one of the highest QBR of the playoffs.

The Defensive failure was what hurt us and I don't think Alex overcomes that much bad defense.

Did you even read what he wrote? He's saying that a more controlled style slows the game down and gives the defense more chance to rest. A controlled offense eats up clock, wins the field position battle, and gives the defense more room to work with. I don't think we would have been down 22 points with Smith behind center. But not simply because it's Smith, it's because our offensive style is so different when he is in. I'd just like to see us run the offense more like that with Kaep in there.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

This is exactly how I feel about the whole thing. What irks me to no end is that people view it as a Kaep vs. Alex thing, when it isn't. I think Kaep is more than capable of playing the slower, more methodical, efficient style of offense. But Harbaugh won't let him do it. What the reason is, who knows.

I prefer the more controlled style of offense. Take chances when the opportunity presents itself, don't just force the issue constantly. You may lose some games by being "too conservative," but you enable your team to be competitive and in EVERY game. Over time, that efficiency and control increases, so by year 3, 4, 5 of a system like that - you have a well oiled machine. THAT is how the 49ers dynasty was built.

I preferred Smith for this style because of his skill set and experience. Kaepernick has shown that he has more than enough ability, but has also shown a lack of experience. It will take a lot more time for him to get as comfortable with it as Smith was, if Harbaugh ever even returns to this type of offensive mindset.

My thoughts as well. Every game is different and style of play also dictates flow of game. When we turned into the gunslinger type of offense, in turn, our defense went downhill.

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

No...no...no. We've had many 3 and out drives with Smith. It's not like Kaep was airing the ball out. He had 8 attempts in the 1st half. You forgot the fumble that was going to put up points. Kaep threw a pick, but again... but I don't think there would be that much of a difference with Smith. I look at the 1st half of the Seahawks, Giants, Vikings, Rams games and wonder what you're talking about. The D couldn't get off the field and there's really nothing Alex would have been able to about it.

The D's woes have nothing to do with Smith's style of play. It has to do with Justin Smith being injured. It's clear as day to see he is the heart of the D.

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

No...no...no.

So you see no connection between the style of offense that is played, and the performance of the defense?

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

No...no...no.

So you see no connection between the style of offense that is played, and the performance of the defense?

Our defense started to struggle whe Justin Smith got hurt in the Pats game and teams started to expose Whitner and Goldson in coverage and the lack of pass rush.

Originally posted by Furlow:
So you see no connection between the style of offense that is played, and the performance of the defense?

I edited my post. No. I see no connection.

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think when we seemingly changed to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

I don't know about that. I think it's more perception than reality. People think that Alex Smith would have controlled the clock because when he DOES drive it's usually a longer, more sustained drive. But the reality is that Alex Smith has his fair share of 3 and outs. It's not like the Niners were moving the ball everytime they had the ball under Alex Smith. And the issue with the NFCCG is that the defense was giving up quick scores and the offense went 3 and out on its first two possessions. You are assuming that Alex would not have gone 3 and out, and there's no way for us to know that, but the evidence doesn't show that they would have surely moved the ball. As for the Super Bowl, there were a slew of mistakes that had nothing to do with the offense's style under Kaepernick. I still don't think the Niners would have been in the Super Bowl under Alex Smith.

As a University of Utah fan, I can't wait for Alex to out of this team.. Hes' gotten a raw deal all around. Sure he's made a lot of money but that comes with the territory. This is crap. They better trade or release him. I can't imagine him being happy as a backup. This years playoffs was scripted for Alex. First game against Rodgers, what else needs to be said? Second game against Nolan as DC of Atlanta, then the game he should have won, the Superbowl!. The ravens have proven that you don't need a flashy run and gun QB to win.....it should have been alex hoisting the trophy. He's been nothing but class, the organization has been anything but. And that's my two cents. I'm out!

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:

Originally posted by Furlow:
So you see no connection between the style of offense that is played, and the performance of the defense?

I edited my post. No. I see no connection.

You have obviously never played, coached, or been associated with any type of football team. Even still, the connection should be obvious to anyone who is more than just a casual fan. My 12 year old who played his first season of football this year even pointed this out about the 49ers.

Originally posted by Caligula66:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Caligula66:
Let me preface this by saying, I am one of the biggest CK fans out there. With CK, our offense is more exciting, more dynamic. We can score quickly and sometimes almost effortlessly. Getting behind early isn't a problem because of this factor. We can easily catch up with big chunk of yards via Ck's big arm. Many question whether we would have made up those big deficits if Smith was still the qb. In my opinion,

I don't think we would have been behind that much leading to the second half in some games if Smith were behind center. The offense behind Smith is a more controlled short yardage offense that methodically moves down the field. The running game with Gore is established early and is complimented by short pass plays to convert 2nd or 3rd downs. Boring...yes, but effective. More time is consumed which keeps our defense on the sideline, therefore more rest for them.

I just think with our seemingly change to this quick score, almost all or nothing offense, is when our defense started to struggle. What say you?

This is exactly how I feel about the whole thing. What irks me to no end is that people view it as a Kaep vs. Alex thing, when it isn't. I think Kaep is more than capable of playing the slower, more methodical, efficient style of offense. But Harbaugh won't let him do it. What the reason is, who knows.

I prefer the more controlled style of offense. Take chances when the opportunity presents itself, don't just force the issue constantly. You may lose some games by being "too conservative," but you enable your team to be competitive and in EVERY game. Over time, that efficiency and control increases, so by year 3, 4, 5 of a system like that - you have a well oiled machine. THAT is how the 49ers dynasty was built.

I preferred Smith for this style because of his skill set and experience. Kaepernick has shown that he has more than enough ability, but has also shown a lack of experience. It will take a lot more time for him to get as comfortable with it as Smith was, if Harbaugh ever even returns to this type of offensive mindset.

My thoughts as well. Every game is different and style of play also dictates flow of game. When we turned into the gunslinger type of offense, in turn, our defense went downhill.

Smith vs a great defense is a bunch of 3 and outs waiting to happen. He rarely played well vs top defenses.

Also, we ran 26 times and passed 28. Not sure what more you want in terms of balance. Any more weighed to the carries and you may as well say you don't believe in your QB.

Another note: if Smith plays BAL also changes their game plan to run blitz more. Do you know why they sacked Alex 9 times last year and Gore only averaged 2.9? It's because they run-blitzed him and did not fear his passing, which was correct.