Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
I'm not going to waste my time saying that Stafford, Big Ben and Newton are better than Smith. I liked Smith and thought we could win a Super Bowl with him, but his numbers were inflated due to the system he was playing in. Plus, none of those QB's had the defense and running game to hide behind. Not to mention the offensive weapons, as well. The only teams if buy are the Bills, Cardinals, Jets, jags and chiefs. And maybe Romo.

So Colin's numbers are inflated too? Same system...just a few added plays. You don't change your entire offense in the middle of the season.

Interesting...

Originally posted by Jesu80ncleats:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by taney71:
I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).

Don't agree at all. Aaron Rodgers would have shown far more in 2005 with McCarthy AND he would have thrived under Norv Turner. Rodgers has the ability to carry teams in certain situations whereas Alex has rarely shown this even under the best conditions.

I don't know how you can under rate the actual talent Rodgers possesses. He has been talked about having the best ability to throw a football EVER by professionals.

I don't see how you can diminish the impact of being able to sit behind one of the all time greats for 3-4 seasons and learn as opposed to being thrown in the deep end and expected to swim? Case and Point : Steve Young before and after he was with the 49ers.

Steve Young was a runner first in college. Big difference. He had to learn how to sit in the pocket. Rodgers was a WCO QB and we would probably never go to Norv and would stick with the WCO because Rodgers wouldn't have had as much trouble in that offense as Alex. Therefore, one could say that the entire team would be working with one type of offense.

And you cannot deny the difference in Talent and how one was WAY more polished between the two QB's. Alex's inability to adjust to the pro style was a reason we switched to cator to his comfort.

So he sat and learned but came out with guns blazing. He was still the more pro ready QB. He would have probably exploded with us in his second or third year.

Rodgers may have developed faster, but he would not have exploded with us. Our pass protection, coaching, receivers were absolutely horrid up until recently. Rodgers isn't going to be tearing it up throwing to guys like Bryan Gilmore and Billy Bajema, with under 2 seconds to throw the ball, and s**tty coaches who have no idea how to groom a qb.

Urban Meyer was quoted as saying Alex Smith might take a bit of time to develop but once he gets it, he really gets it. When he was finally put into a decent situation for a qb to have success, we go 13-3 and he was only getting better this year. Remember coming out, Smith and Rodgers were looked at as nearly identical, when it came to throw power, accuracy, and getting the game. In fact, Smith was seen as the better athlete. Smith was favored because McCarthy wasn't fond of Rodgers attitude. McCarthy and Rodgers have butted heads a few times in Greenbay.

Nearly identical quarterbacks. One gets put into the optimal situation for a qb to succeed, and one gets put into the worst possible. Switch their situations and you most likely see similar results, smith would be successful in greenbay, while Rodgers would struggle a bit and get his shoulder hurt. Smith might have not been AS successful as Rodgers and Rodgers might not struggle AS much as Smith, but I would be willing to bet the situation would be reversed! Two very similar qbs coming out... and don't forget, Alex Smith has a good mental game, despite what might be portrayed. You have to have one hell of a mental game to get through what he's been through!

Then we just disagree as simple as that. There are some throws that Rodgers makes that Alex would NEVER attempt or be able to make. One would have had more success than the other no matter where they went.

See I agree to a certain point with the bolded, however if you watch Alex and Antonio Bryant, Alex is firing his throws in there with nice velocity. After his shoulder injury it's really obvious he lost some zip and maybe his confidence to stay in the pocket.

pwillis52beasty is right, there was almost no difference in Smith or Rodgers ability's at the time of the 2005 draft, other than instincts.

I didn't notice any impressive throws to Bryant. Most were to him when he was wide open and I actually NEVER thought he had elite type of arm strength where the ball quickly got onto a receiver.

Let's pretend we agree on athletic ability...just for the sake of not having difference of opinion getting in the way. Rodgers was the more NFL ready QB. That alone would have provided him more success in 2005 under McCarthy and that alone would have us replace McCarthy with a WCO.

Now if you want to say well what if Rodgers DID actually have a new system and OC as did Alex...well...that's when I must bring in Rodgers gunslinger mentality and we are right back in circles.


Biggest revelation of what Alex has to offer was that teams were not clamoring to acquire him after having a very good statistical 2011 along with being so close to a Superbowl appearance. Even if teams felt like he was not going to sign, I did not hear anything about other evaluators doing whatever it takes to acquire him. If the player, especially a QB, shows he is a top 10 QB, teams won't hesitate to offer 1st round picks.

Again, we will see this offseason as to what we do with Alex and who wants to give what for him. One cannot discount what he didn't show during those 6 or 7 years and what he was still lacking the past 2 years no matter the situation.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:
I'm not going to waste my time saying that Stafford, Big Ben and Newton are better than Smith. I liked Smith and thought we could win a Super Bowl with him, but his numbers were inflated due to the system he was playing in. Plus, none of those QB's had the defense and running game to hide behind. Not to mention the offensive weapons, as well. The only teams if buy are the Bills, Cardinals, Jets, jags and chiefs. And maybe Romo.

So Colin's numbers are inflated too? Same system...just a few added plays. You don't change your entire offense in the middle of the season.

Interesting...

This is true. Unless Colin was in a similar situation, such as WAS, his numbers would not be as good on a team like the Colts. HOWEVER, his playmaking ability would not be any different than it is no different than Andrew Luck who's numbers are not very efficient but his ability to make things happen are.

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Anyways here are teams with quarterbacks that I think Alex Smith is clearly better than and arguably as good or better than

Clearly better than- Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Buccaneers, Cardinals, Rams



Arguably as good or better than-


Ravens (I think he's similar to Joe Flacco status, although Flacco is playing lights out right now), Bengals, Steelers (Big Ben isn't all that good, a case can be made), Texans (Schaub looks kind of bad sometimes), Cowboys (Romo is a choke artist), Bears (Jay Cutler ain't all that), Lions (Stafford kind of sucked this year), Panthers (Cam Newton was also kind of boo boo and I think Smith is a better passer),


Now some of those guys may put up way bigger numbers, but I'd rather have Smith with the game on the line rather than a lot of them. So that is 20 teams with qbs that I think Smith may be on par with or better than. Out of those teams I think the Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Bucs, Cardinals, and maybe even the Rams could show interest in trading for him. I think we should at least get a 3rd round pick, possibly a 2nd.

Jaguars - Will give you this one.

Bills - Fitzpatrick is better than Smith IMO and probably in most people's...but this one could be arguable.

Dolphins - They have a potential QBof the future if Tannehill steps up next year. If you watched Miami games, you'd know he had a lot of ups and downs on a team with mediocre talent. I'd take him over Alex Smith for their situation.

Jets - Will give you this one.

Browns - You can't say he's definitely better than Weeden given their circumstances, but I'll give you this one as well.

Titans - Again, you can't say AS is better than Jake Locker given their circumstances. In this case, I'd take Locker over AS so I won't give you this one.

Chiefs - Alex Smith = Matt Cassel

Raiders - Will give you this one, but Palmer clearly has more physical tools (even now).

Bucs - Are you kidding me? Josh Freeman is much better than AS. I don't care what the QB rating says.

Cardinals - Will give you this one, but Kolb could be better next year.

Rams - Bradford > Smith, IMO. Similar players but I'd take Bradford.

Ravens - WTF. No.

Bengals - Again, no. Dalton is so much further along than AS and he's a 2nd year player.

Steelers - Just stop.

Texans - I'm not a Schaub fan at all, but AS isn't better than him and you certainly wouldn't start AS over Schaub.

Cowboys - Romo is 3x the QB Alex is. Nobody in their right mind would take AS over Romo.

Bears - Cutler is so mistake prone that this isn't as much of a blowout in his favor than you might think. Still Cutler > AS on any team I'm starting.

Lions - Stafford had an off year. Still almost threw for 5K. He's better than AS and that's not even arguable. Just has to cut down the mistakes and needs a better cast.

Panthers - Cam is better. Again, closer than it seems. Cam has a better arm and is clearly the better runner. With a bit more seasoning, he's a top 7 QB.

Originally posted by skaw23:

Originally posted by Jesu80ncleats:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by taney71:
I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).

Don't agree at all. Aaron Rodgers would have shown far more in 2005 with McCarthy AND he would have thrived under Norv Turner. Rodgers has the ability to carry teams in certain situations whereas Alex has rarely shown this even under the best conditions.

I don't know how you can under rate the actual talent Rodgers possesses. He has been talked about having the best ability to throw a football EVER by professionals.

I don't see how you can diminish the impact of being able to sit behind one of the all time greats for 3-4 seasons and learn as opposed to being thrown in the deep end and expected to swim? Case and Point : Steve Young before and after he was with the 49ers.

Steve Young was a runner first in college. Big difference. He had to learn how to sit in the pocket. Rodgers was a WCO QB and we would probably never go to Norv and would stick with the WCO because Rodgers wouldn't have had as much trouble in that offense as Alex. Therefore, one could say that the entire team would be working with one type of offense.

And you cannot deny the difference in Talent and how one was WAY more polished between the two QB's. Alex's inability to adjust to the pro style was a reason we switched to cator to his comfort.

So he sat and learned but came out with guns blazing. He was still the more pro ready QB. He would have probably exploded with us in his second or third year.

Rodgers may have developed faster, but he would not have exploded with us. Our pass protection, coaching, receivers were absolutely horrid up until recently. Rodgers isn't going to be tearing it up throwing to guys like Bryan Gilmore and Billy Bajema, with under 2 seconds to throw the ball, and s**tty coaches who have no idea how to groom a qb.

Urban Meyer was quoted as saying Alex Smith might take a bit of time to develop but once he gets it, he really gets it. When he was finally put into a decent situation for a qb to have success, we go 13-3 and he was only getting better this year. Remember coming out, Smith and Rodgers were looked at as nearly identical, when it came to throw power, accuracy, and getting the game. In fact, Smith was seen as the better athlete. Smith was favored because McCarthy wasn't fond of Rodgers attitude. McCarthy and Rodgers have butted heads a few times in Greenbay.

Nearly identical quarterbacks. One gets put into the optimal situation for a qb to succeed, and one gets put into the worst possible. Switch their situations and you most likely see similar results, smith would be successful in greenbay, while Rodgers would struggle a bit and get his shoulder hurt. Smith might have not been AS successful as Rodgers and Rodgers might not struggle AS much as Smith, but I would be willing to bet the situation would be reversed! Two very similar qbs coming out... and don't forget, Alex Smith has a good mental game, despite what might be portrayed. You have to have one hell of a mental game to get through what he's been through!

Then we just disagree as simple as that. There are some throws that Rodgers makes that Alex would NEVER attempt or be able to make. One would have had more success than the other no matter where they went.

See I agree to a certain point with the bolded, however if you watch Alex and Antonio Bryant, Alex is firing his throws in there with nice velocity. After his shoulder injury it's really obvious he lost some zip and maybe his confidence to stay in the pocket.

pwillis52beasty is right, there was almost no difference in Smith or Rodgers ability's at the time of the 2005 draft, other than instincts.

Anyone who actually watched Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers play in COLLEGE, knows that Aaron Rodgers was a better pocket scrambler and had much, much better accuracy. Just watch the damn games. I did. Did you guys? So this whole notion about Alex and Aaron being on par with each other is ridiculous. The other thing people don't know is that the way that Aaron Rodgers throws the ball is different than how he did in college. Tedford changed his throwing motion at Cal, which he does with all of his QBs, but Rodgers reverted back to his old, relaxed motion when in the NFL. You would never see the quick sling pass when he was at Cal but if you knew enough about the history of his throwing motion, you could have figured it out very easily. Most importantly, Rodgers decision making was much, much better. Play breaks down, he could adjust and hit his latter options. Smith was not as good at this. At the end of the day, McCarthy didn't like Rodgers' attitude and neither did Nolan. They wanted someone who would be a Yes Man and they got it. It's too bad because that didn't serve Alex well at all and he had to learn the hard way.

How about you go back and look at all of the scouting reports. Almost all of the scouts, gms, etc. had rodgers and smith labeled as nearly identical quarterbacks. I'm sure you are able to identify and distinguish between quarterbacks better than a majority of the scouts though.... If Rodgers had so much better accuracy it would have been a no brainer who to pick, correct? You don't realize that Smith was highly accurate in college. Go back and watch some film on smith.

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
How about you go back and look at all of the scouting reports. Almost all of the scouts, gms, etc. had rodgers and smith labeled as nearly identical quarterbacks. I'm sure you are able to identify and distinguish between quarterbacks better than a majority of the scouts though.... If Rodgers had so much better accuracy it would have been a no brainer who to pick, correct? You don't realize that Smith was highly accurate in college. Go back and watch some film on smith.

Actually, the biggest reason Rodgers dropped was the Tedford affect. That was being thrown around a lot during the draft. Rodgers shut those doubters up.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Anyways here are teams with quarterbacks that I think Alex Smith is clearly better than and arguably as good or better than

Clearly better than- Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Buccaneers, Cardinals, Rams



Arguably as good or better than-


Ravens (I think he's similar to Joe Flacco status, although Flacco is playing lights out right now), Bengals, Steelers (Big Ben isn't all that good, a case can be made), Texans (Schaub looks kind of bad sometimes), Cowboys (Romo is a choke artist), Bears (Jay Cutler ain't all that), Lions (Stafford kind of sucked this year), Panthers (Cam Newton was also kind of boo boo and I think Smith is a better passer),


Now some of those guys may put up way bigger numbers, but I'd rather have Smith with the game on the line rather than a lot of them. So that is 20 teams with qbs that I think Smith may be on par with or better than. Out of those teams I think the Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Bucs, Cardinals, and maybe even the Rams could show interest in trading for him. I think we should at least get a 3rd round pick, possibly a 2nd.

Jaguars - Will give you this one.

Bills - Fitzpatrick is better than Smith IMO and probably in most people's...but this one could be arguable. - Fitzpatricks 83 qb rating 24-16 td in ratio compared to Alex Smith projected 2013 had he played the whole season 104 qb rating 26 tds 10 int... really?

Dolphins - They have a potential QBof the future if Tannehill steps up next year. If you watched Miami games, you'd know he had a lot of ups and downs on a team with mediocre talent. I'd take him over Alex Smith for their situation. - I'm talking about right now! Not potentials! You'd take a raw tannehill over a very good vet like Alex.. Wow

Jets - Will give you this one.

Browns - You can't say he's definitely better than Weeden given their circumstances, but I'll give you this one as well. -Easily better than Weeden

Titans - Again, you can't say AS is better than Jake Locker given their circumstances. In this case, I'd take Locker over AS so I won't give you this one.- Lol, ok have fun with that. You think Alex Smith has accuracy issues?

Chiefs - Alex Smith = Matt Cassel- OMG, NO... geez

Raiders - Will give you this one, but Palmer clearly has more physical tools (even now).- Clearly has more physical tools? Alex is by far the superior athlete, throws on the run... Palmer better arm, that's it.

Bucs - Are you kidding me? Josh Freeman is much better than AS. I don't care what the QB rating says.- I guess if you like quarterbacks that make completely boneheaded throws and mistakes

Cardinals - Will give you this one, but Kolb could be better next year. - Thank God, you gave us the Cardinals. Not even close to debate here.

Rams - Bradford > Smith, IMO. Similar players but I'd take Bradford. Really? Bradford has played better than Smith these last two years... really?

Ravens - WTF. No.- LOL how is this WTF no? Just last year it was a toss up when they were both in the Championship games. Smith was playing better than Flacco up until Smith got hurt. Flacco has only been playing lights out recently.

Bengals - Again, no. Dalton is so much further along than AS and he's a 2nd year player. This is a debate, but I'd take Smith in a big game situation. Trust smith more than a young guy like Dalton

Steelers - Just stop.- Big Ben is probably better, but he makes some huge mistakes and leaves you scratching your head from time to time. Things Alex Would never do. Again, Alex Smith with a better rating, far higher completion percentage and just as many tds if you project his season.

Texans - I'm not a Schaub fan at all, but AS isn't better than him and you certainly wouldn't start AS over Schaub.

Cowboys - Romo is 3x the QB Alex is. Nobody in their right mind would take AS over Romo.- Lol ok. You can have Romo in the playoffs, I'll take Smith who plays well in big games. And the Giants NFCC game was not a problem with the quarterback, a problem with no weapons and no pass protection.

Bears - Cutler is so mistake prone that this isn't as much of a blowout in his favor than you might think. Still Cutler > AS on any team I'm starting. - Arguable. One guy puts up huge numbers, but isn't very reliable, while the other guy puts up respectable production but is reliable and efficient. Same applies to Stafford.

Lions - Stafford had an off year. Still almost threw for 5K. He's better than AS and that's not even arguable. Just has to cut down the mistakes and needs a better cast.

Panthers - Cam is better. Again, closer than it seems. Cam has a better arm and is clearly the better runner. With a bit more seasoning, he's a top 7 QB. - Alex Smith far superior at reading defenses, passing accuracy. Newton better arm and runner.

See the bolded

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
See the bolded

I think my overall point on a lot of those is that you can't just look at QB rating and stats bc of how different situations are.

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

See post #376. Read it over and over. Let it go, man. Kaepernick is better, we all see that. The fact that you feel the need to continue to knock Smith makes your position look weak.

No one ever said he was John Elway. He just was never as bad as you guys made him seem to be.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

See post #376. Read it over and over. Let it go, man. Kaepernick is better, we all see that. The fact that you feel the need to continue to knock Smith makes your position look weak.

No one ever said he was John Elway. He just was never as bad as you guys made him seem to be.

Don't mind Joe...he's waffled on Smith, too. Loved him for a while...

Originally posted by Joecool:

Actually, the biggest reason Rodgers dropped was the Tedford affect. That was being thrown around a lot during the draft. Rodgers shut those doubters up.

Eventually.

Originally posted by Joecool:

I didn't notice any impressive throws to Bryant. Most were to him when he was wide open and I actually NEVER thought he had elite type of arm strength where the ball quickly got onto a receiver.

Let's pretend we agree on athletic ability...just for the sake of not having difference of opinion getting in the way. Rodgers was the more NFL ready QB. That alone would have provided him more success in 2005 under McCarthy and that alone would have us replace McCarthy with a WCO.

Now if you want to say well what if Rodgers DID actually have a new system and OC as did Alex...well...that's when I must bring in Rodgers gunslinger mentality and we are right back in circles.


Biggest revelation of what Alex has to offer was that teams were not clamoring to acquire him after having a very good statistical 2011 along with being so close to a Superbowl appearance. Even if teams felt like he was not going to sign, I did not hear anything about other evaluators doing whatever it takes to acquire him. If the player, especially a QB, shows he is a top 10 QB, teams won't hesitate to offer 1st round picks.

Again, we will see this offseason as to what we do with Alex and who wants to give what for him. One cannot discount what he didn't show during those 6 or 7 years and what he was still lacking the past 2 years no matter the situation.

I think the biggest difference between the two is Smith was gun shy and Rogers was not. Look at their personalities, Rogers is cocky and there isn't a single throw he's afraid to make. That to me separates the good from the great QB's. The greats aren't afraid to make a mistake. The current starter plays the same way.

Timid play should not be blamed on coaching. Smith still plays timid even under Harbaugh. If we had Rogers, I don't think he'd be as good as he is now, but I don't think he would have been as poor as Smith in his earlier days. I don't buy the narrative that Smith did the best any QB could have done in his position. I don't buy that one bit.

As far as the new systems. Yes, it's unfortunate, but he never played in Martz's system. He also had 2 years in Raye's offense (Johnson took over but they ran the exact same offense) and his play had not improved. 2nd year in Harbaugh's offense and his play was up and down.

Smith is a solid QB but he needs a lot of help to be successful. What happens this weekend without Hunter, Mario, Kyle, down 17, a missed field goal and a fumble at the goal line? Personally I don't think Smith wins that game but that's just my opinion. We'd also be here dissecting each problem he had to overcome.

Smith gets way too much hate, but he also gets way too much love. I'm in the middle.

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Anyways here are teams with quarterbacks that I think Alex Smith is clearly better than and arguably as good or better than

Clearly better than- Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Buccaneers, Cardinals, Rams



Arguably as good or better than-


Ravens (I think he's similar to Joe Flacco status, although Flacco is playing lights out right now), Bengals, Steelers (Big Ben isn't all that good, a case can be made), Texans (Schaub looks kind of bad sometimes), Cowboys (Romo is a choke artist), Bears (Jay Cutler ain't all that), Lions (Stafford kind of sucked this year), Panthers (Cam Newton was also kind of boo boo and I think Smith is a better passer),


Now some of those guys may put up way bigger numbers, but I'd rather have Smith with the game on the line rather than a lot of them. So that is 20 teams with qbs that I think Smith may be on par with or better than. Out of those teams I think the Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Bucs, Cardinals, and maybe even the Rams could show interest in trading for him. I think we should at least get a 3rd round pick, possibly a 2nd.

Dude, the comment about Alex beign on par or better than Big Ben is ridiculous. You're going to have to explain that one.

Flacco is better, period. It can't even be disputed.
Big Ben is better, period.
Schaub is better but Alex is close
Romo is better. He's asked to do far more than Smith. He's also fearless. I give points for that.
Cutler IMO is better but I can understand people who think he isn't.
Cam? NO way is Smith better
Smith is better than Henne but they're in the same mold IMO.
He's better than Sanchez, Locker, Cards QB
I'd put him in the same category as Palmer, Kolb, Cassel, Fitzpatrick, Bucs QB, etc.

I'd say he's better than about 10 starters in the league.

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by cciowa:
rogers can say the right things but i wonder if he ever learned anything from the guy ahead of him. i heard he was very rude and cool to rogers. young can say the right nice things to about montana but sometimes i wonder about the setting and learning theory. going back to the old days, while alex may not have learned alot from garcia,, nolan really f**ked up when he opted not to bring back garcia for a couple years and threw alex in to the wolves.

Garcia left in 2003... Alex was drafted in 2005

i know that, did you know that when nolan was hired garcia openly campaigned for the niners to bring him back ,saying he would be the water boy on the team. nolan did not give him a look, i think that was a mistake , under garcia we may have had some success and alex probably would have done better had he set for a couple years

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by cciowa:

rogers can say the right things but i wonder if he ever learned anything from the guy ahead of him. i heard he was very rude and cool to rogers. young can say the right nice things to about montana but sometimes i wonder about the setting and learning theory. going back to the old days, while alex may not have learned alot from garcia,, nolan really f**ked up when he opted not to bring back garcia for a couple years and threw alex in to the wolves.

Garcia left in 2003... Alex was drafted in 2005

i know that, did you know that when nolan was hired garcia openly campaigned for the niners to bring him back ,saying he would be the water boy on the team. nolan did not give him a look, i think that was a mistake , under garcia we may have had some success and alex probably would have done better had he set for a couple years

Rice wanted to come back too.
We cycled through other old ass WRs instead. f**kin Nolan.