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Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young was NOT a runner first in college! Did you ever watch him play? I don't think he ever ran more than 500 yards in a season. He was a scrambler but he threw way more yards than he ran.
Originally posted by 49ermark:So much of my niner fan hood in the mid to late 2000 have been anger towards alex smith the QB not the man- IMHO the worse draft pick ever! - he redeemed himself to me last year making bold moves and finally getting over the hump the ultimate game manager. Congrats Alex leaf smith ! I will miss my hate for you after every INT , over thrown ball and fumble. No more alexcuses, the smith era is over and I for one am really really happy! I hope he ends up on the cardinals so we see him twice every week. We have come full circle there's not a chance in hell he will be here next year. I hope we get a good trade for him I think it's real possible. Thank you Alex !
Originally posted by 49ermark:
So much of my niner fan hood in the mid to late 2000 have been anger towards alex smith the QB not the man- IMHO the worse draft pick ever! - he redeemed himself to me last year making bold moves and finally getting over the hump the ultimate game manager. Congrats Alex leaf smith ! I will miss my hate for you after every INT , over thrown ball and fumble. No more alexcuses, the smith era is over and I for one am really really happy! I hope he ends up on the cardinals so we see him twice every week. We have come full circle there's not a chance in hell he will be here next year. I hope we get a good trade for him I think it's real possible. Thank you Alex !
Championship
Originally posted by Jcool:Originally posted by aTx49er:Steve Young was NOT a runner first in college! Did you ever watch him play? I don't think he ever ran more than 500 yards in a season. He was a scrambler but he threw way more yards than he ran.
269 attempts 1084 yards in two years starting... Might not be a run first QB more then just a scrambler.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by taney71:
I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).
Don't agree at all. Aaron Rodgers would have shown far more in 2005 with McCarthy AND he would have thrived under Norv Turner. Rodgers has the ability to carry teams in certain situations whereas Alex has rarely shown this even under the best conditions.
I don't know how you can under rate the actual talent Rodgers possesses. He has been talked about having the best ability to throw a football EVER by professionals.
I don't see how you can diminish the impact of being able to sit behind one of the all time greats for 3-4 seasons and learn as opposed to being thrown in the deep end and expected to swim? Case and Point : Steve Young before and after he was with the 49ers.
Steve Young was a runner first in college. Big difference. He had to learn how to sit in the pocket. Rodgers was a WCO QB and we would probably never go to Norv and would stick with the WCO because Rodgers wouldn't have had as much trouble in that offense as Alex. Therefore, one could say that the entire team would be working with one type of offense.
And you cannot deny the difference in Talent and how one was WAY more polished between the two QB's. Alex's inability to adjust to the pro style was a reason we switched to cator to his comfort.
So he sat and learned but came out with guns blazing. He was still the more pro ready QB. He would have probably exploded with us in his second or third year.
Rodgers may have developed faster, but he would not have exploded with us. Our pass protection, coaching, receivers were absolutely horrid up until recently. Rodgers isn't going to be tearing it up throwing to guys like Bryan Gilmore and Billy Bajema, with under 2 seconds to throw the ball, and s**tty coaches who have no idea how to groom a qb.
Urban Meyer was quoted as saying Alex Smith might take a bit of time to develop but once he gets it, he really gets it. When he was finally put into a decent situation for a qb to have success, we go 13-3 and he was only getting better this year. Remember coming out, Smith and Rodgers were looked at as nearly identical, when it came to throw power, accuracy, and getting the game. In fact, Smith was seen as the better athlete. Smith was favored because McCarthy wasn't fond of Rodgers attitude. McCarthy and Rodgers have butted heads a few times in Greenbay.
Nearly identical quarterbacks. One gets put into the optimal situation for a qb to succeed, and one gets put into the worst possible. Switch their situations and you most likely see similar results, smith would be successful in greenbay, while Rodgers would struggle a bit and get his shoulder hurt. Smith might have not been AS successful as Rodgers and Rodgers might not struggle AS much as Smith, but I would be willing to bet the situation would be reversed! Two very similar qbs coming out... and don't forget, Alex Smith has a good mental game, despite what might be portrayed. You have to have one hell of a mental game to get through what he's been through!
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young was NOT a runner first in college! Did you ever watch him play? I don't think he ever ran more than 500 yards in a season. He was a scrambler but he threw way more yards than he ran.
269 attempts 1084 yards in two years starting... Might not be a run first QB more then just a scrambler.
He ran for 851 yards in two years as a starter. He threw for 6902 yards in those two years......
Originally posted by Joecool:See I agree to a certain point with the bolded, however if you watch Alex and Antonio Bryant, Alex is firing his throws in there with nice velocity. After his shoulder injury it's really obvious he lost some zip and maybe his confidence to stay in the pocket.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by taney71:
I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).
Don't agree at all. Aaron Rodgers would have shown far more in 2005 with McCarthy AND he would have thrived under Norv Turner. Rodgers has the ability to carry teams in certain situations whereas Alex has rarely shown this even under the best conditions.
I don't know how you can under rate the actual talent Rodgers possesses. He has been talked about having the best ability to throw a football EVER by professionals.
I don't see how you can diminish the impact of being able to sit behind one of the all time greats for 3-4 seasons and learn as opposed to being thrown in the deep end and expected to swim? Case and Point : Steve Young before and after he was with the 49ers.
Steve Young was a runner first in college. Big difference. He had to learn how to sit in the pocket. Rodgers was a WCO QB and we would probably never go to Norv and would stick with the WCO because Rodgers wouldn't have had as much trouble in that offense as Alex. Therefore, one could say that the entire team would be working with one type of offense.
And you cannot deny the difference in Talent and how one was WAY more polished between the two QB's. Alex's inability to adjust to the pro style was a reason we switched to cator to his comfort.
So he sat and learned but came out with guns blazing. He was still the more pro ready QB. He would have probably exploded with us in his second or third year.
Rodgers may have developed faster, but he would not have exploded with us. Our pass protection, coaching, receivers were absolutely horrid up until recently. Rodgers isn't going to be tearing it up throwing to guys like Bryan Gilmore and Billy Bajema, with under 2 seconds to throw the ball, and s**tty coaches who have no idea how to groom a qb.
Urban Meyer was quoted as saying Alex Smith might take a bit of time to develop but once he gets it, he really gets it. When he was finally put into a decent situation for a qb to have success, we go 13-3 and he was only getting better this year. Remember coming out, Smith and Rodgers were looked at as nearly identical, when it came to throw power, accuracy, and getting the game. In fact, Smith was seen as the better athlete. Smith was favored because McCarthy wasn't fond of Rodgers attitude. McCarthy and Rodgers have butted heads a few times in Greenbay.
Nearly identical quarterbacks. One gets put into the optimal situation for a qb to succeed, and one gets put into the worst possible. Switch their situations and you most likely see similar results, smith would be successful in greenbay, while Rodgers would struggle a bit and get his shoulder hurt. Smith might have not been AS successful as Rodgers and Rodgers might not struggle AS much as Smith, but I would be willing to bet the situation would be reversed! Two very similar qbs coming out... and don't forget, Alex Smith has a good mental game, despite what might be portrayed. You have to have one hell of a mental game to get through what he's been through!
Then we just disagree as simple as that. There are some throws that Rodgers makes that Alex would NEVER attempt or be able to make. One would have had more success than the other no matter where they went.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young was NOT a runner first in college! Did you ever watch him play? I don't think he ever ran more than 500 yards in a season. He was a scrambler but he threw way more yards than he ran.
269 attempts 1084 yards in two years starting... Might not be a run first QB more then just a scrambler.
He ran for 851 yards in two years as a starter. He threw for 6902 yards in those two years......
Originally posted by English:Originally posted by OregonDuckNiner:Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:Anyways here are teams with quarterbacks that I think Alex Smith is clearly better than and arguably as good or better than
Clearly better than- Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Buccaneers, Cardinals, Rams
Arguably as good or better than-
Ravens (I think he's similar to Joe Flacco status, although Flacco is playing lights out right now), Bengals, Steelers (Big Ben isn't all that good, a case can be made), Texans (Schaub looks kind of bad sometimes), Cowboys (Romo is a choke artist), Bears (Jay Cutler ain't all that), Lions (Stafford kind of sucked this year), Panthers (Cam Newton was also kind of boo boo and I think Smith is a better passer),
Now some of those guys may put up way bigger numbers, but I'd rather have Smith with the game on the line rather than a lot of them. So that is 20 teams with qbs that I think Smith may be on par with or better than. Out of those teams I think the Jaguars, Bills, Dolphins, Jets, Browns, Titans, Chiefs, Raiders, Eagles, Bucs, Cardinals, and maybe even the Rams could show interest in trading for him. I think we should at least get a 3rd round pick, possibly a 2nd.
LOL @ this whole post
Wow that's a powerful rebuttal of his argument. You dismantled each of his points with logic and cool reasoning.
Oh. No you haven't actually, have you.
Originally posted by Jesu80ncleats:
Originally posted by Joecool:See I agree to a certain point with the bolded, however if you watch Alex and Antonio Bryant, Alex is firing his throws in there with nice velocity. After his shoulder injury it's really obvious he lost some zip and maybe his confidence to stay in the pocket.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by taney71:
I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).
Don't agree at all. Aaron Rodgers would have shown far more in 2005 with McCarthy AND he would have thrived under Norv Turner. Rodgers has the ability to carry teams in certain situations whereas Alex has rarely shown this even under the best conditions.
I don't know how you can under rate the actual talent Rodgers possesses. He has been talked about having the best ability to throw a football EVER by professionals.
I don't see how you can diminish the impact of being able to sit behind one of the all time greats for 3-4 seasons and learn as opposed to being thrown in the deep end and expected to swim? Case and Point : Steve Young before and after he was with the 49ers.
Steve Young was a runner first in college. Big difference. He had to learn how to sit in the pocket. Rodgers was a WCO QB and we would probably never go to Norv and would stick with the WCO because Rodgers wouldn't have had as much trouble in that offense as Alex. Therefore, one could say that the entire team would be working with one type of offense.
And you cannot deny the difference in Talent and how one was WAY more polished between the two QB's. Alex's inability to adjust to the pro style was a reason we switched to cator to his comfort.
So he sat and learned but came out with guns blazing. He was still the more pro ready QB. He would have probably exploded with us in his second or third year.
Rodgers may have developed faster, but he would not have exploded with us. Our pass protection, coaching, receivers were absolutely horrid up until recently. Rodgers isn't going to be tearing it up throwing to guys like Bryan Gilmore and Billy Bajema, with under 2 seconds to throw the ball, and s**tty coaches who have no idea how to groom a qb.
Urban Meyer was quoted as saying Alex Smith might take a bit of time to develop but once he gets it, he really gets it. When he was finally put into a decent situation for a qb to have success, we go 13-3 and he was only getting better this year. Remember coming out, Smith and Rodgers were looked at as nearly identical, when it came to throw power, accuracy, and getting the game. In fact, Smith was seen as the better athlete. Smith was favored because McCarthy wasn't fond of Rodgers attitude. McCarthy and Rodgers have butted heads a few times in Greenbay.
Nearly identical quarterbacks. One gets put into the optimal situation for a qb to succeed, and one gets put into the worst possible. Switch their situations and you most likely see similar results, smith would be successful in greenbay, while Rodgers would struggle a bit and get his shoulder hurt. Smith might have not been AS successful as Rodgers and Rodgers might not struggle AS much as Smith, but I would be willing to bet the situation would be reversed! Two very similar qbs coming out... and don't forget, Alex Smith has a good mental game, despite what might be portrayed. You have to have one hell of a mental game to get through what he's been through!
Then we just disagree as simple as that. There are some throws that Rodgers makes that Alex would NEVER attempt or be able to make. One would have had more success than the other no matter where they went.
pwillis52beasty is right, there was almost no difference in Smith or Rodgers ability's at the time of the 2005 draft, other than instincts.
Originally posted by skaw23:Originally posted by Jesu80ncleats:See I agree to a certain point with the bolded, however if you watch Alex and Antonio Bryant, Alex is firing his throws in there with nice velocity. After his shoulder injury it's really obvious he lost some zip and maybe his confidence to stay in the pocket.Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by Jakemall:Originally posted by Joecool:Originally posted by taney71:I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).
Don't agree at all. Aaron Rodgers would have shown far more in 2005 with McCarthy AND he would have thrived under Norv Turner. Rodgers has the ability to carry teams in certain situations whereas Alex has rarely shown this even under the best conditions.
I don't know how you can under rate the actual talent Rodgers possesses. He has been talked about having the best ability to throw a football EVER by professionals.
I don't see how you can diminish the impact of being able to sit behind one of the all time greats for 3-4 seasons and learn as opposed to being thrown in the deep end and expected to swim? Case and Point : Steve Young before and after he was with the 49ers.
Steve Young was a runner first in college. Big difference. He had to learn how to sit in the pocket. Rodgers was a WCO QB and we would probably never go to Norv and would stick with the WCO because Rodgers wouldn't have had as much trouble in that offense as Alex. Therefore, one could say that the entire team would be working with one type of offense.
And you cannot deny the difference in Talent and how one was WAY more polished between the two QB's. Alex's inability to adjust to the pro style was a reason we switched to cator to his comfort.
So he sat and learned but came out with guns blazing. He was still the more pro ready QB. He would have probably exploded with us in his second or third year.
Rodgers may have developed faster, but he would not have exploded with us. Our pass protection, coaching, receivers were absolutely horrid up until recently. Rodgers isn't going to be tearing it up throwing to guys like Bryan Gilmore and Billy Bajema, with under 2 seconds to throw the ball, and s**tty coaches who have no idea how to groom a qb.
Urban Meyer was quoted as saying Alex Smith might take a bit of time to develop but once he gets it, he really gets it. When he was finally put into a decent situation for a qb to have success, we go 13-3 and he was only getting better this year. Remember coming out, Smith and Rodgers were looked at as nearly identical, when it came to throw power, accuracy, and getting the game. In fact, Smith was seen as the better athlete. Smith was favored because McCarthy wasn't fond of Rodgers attitude. McCarthy and Rodgers have butted heads a few times in Greenbay.
Nearly identical quarterbacks. One gets put into the optimal situation for a qb to succeed, and one gets put into the worst possible. Switch their situations and you most likely see similar results, smith would be successful in greenbay, while Rodgers would struggle a bit and get his shoulder hurt. Smith might have not been AS successful as Rodgers and Rodgers might not struggle AS much as Smith, but I would be willing to bet the situation would be reversed! Two very similar qbs coming out... and don't forget, Alex Smith has a good mental game, despite what might be portrayed. You have to have one hell of a mental game to get through what he's been through!
Then we just disagree as simple as that. There are some throws that Rodgers makes that Alex would NEVER attempt or be able to make. One would have had more success than the other no matter where they went.
pwillis52beasty is right, there was almost no difference in Smith or Rodgers ability's at the time of the 2005 draft, other than instincts.
Anyone who actually watched Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers play in COLLEGE, knows that Aaron Rodgers was a better pocket scrambler and had much, much better accuracy. Just watch the damn games. I did. Did you guys? So this whole notion about Alex and Aaron being on par with each other is ridiculous. The other thing people don't know is that the way that Aaron Rodgers throws the ball is different than how he did in college. Tedford changed his throwing motion at Cal, which he does with all of his QBs, but Rodgers reverted back to his old, relaxed motion when in the NFL. You would never see the quick sling pass when he was at Cal but if you knew enough about the history of his throwing motion, you could have figured it out very easily. Most importantly, Rodgers decision making was much, much better. Play breaks down, he could adjust and hit his latter options. Smith was not as good at this. At the end of the day, McCarthy didn't like Rodgers' attitude and neither did Nolan. They wanted someone who would be a Yes Man and they got it. It's too bad because that didn't serve Alex well at all and he had to learn the hard way.
Originally posted by skaw23:
Anyone who actually watched Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers play in COLLEGE, knows that Aaron Rodgers was a better pocket scrambler and had much, much better accuracy. Just watch the damn games. I did. Did you guys? So this whole notion about Alex and Aaron being on par with each other is ridiculous. The other thing people don't know is that the way that Aaron Rodgers throws the ball is different than how he did in college. Tedford changed his throwing motion at Cal, which he does with all of his QBs, but Rodgers reverted back to his old, relaxed motion when in the NFL. You would never see the quick sling pass when he was at Cal but if you knew enough about the history of his throwing motion, you could have figured it out very easily. Most importantly, Rodgers decision making was much, much better. Play breaks down, he could adjust and hit his latter options. Smith was not as good at this. At the end of the day, McCarthy didn't like Rodgers' attitude and neither did Nolan. They wanted someone who would be a Yes Man and they got it. It's too bad because that didn't serve Alex well at all and he had to learn the hard way.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Jcool:rogers can say the right things but i wonder if he ever learned anything from the guy ahead of him. i heard he was very rude and cool to rogers. young can say the right nice things to about montana but sometimes i wonder about the setting and learning theory. going back to the old days, while alex may not have learned alot from garcia,, nolan really f**ked up when he opted not to bring back garcia for a couple years and threw alex in to the wolves.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
I don't see how you can diminish the impact of being able to sit behind one of the all time greats for 3-4 seasons and learn as opposed to being thrown in the deep end? Case and Point : Steve Young before and after he was with the 49ers.
Sitting behind a great player has nothing to do with it. Its all about coaching.
