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Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by excelsior:
As much as I have liked Alex over the years, I have been critical of how he has failed to protect his own professional interests. In a word, he has appeared to be naive and loyal in an old-fashioned sense. Most recently, he was played for a fool by his agent who also represented P. Manning. When the 49ers were courting Payton, there was no way that the agent could look after Payton's interest while doing the same for Alex. First, the agent should have removed himself from continuing to represent Alex, but he didn't - very unethical conflict of interest. That was when Alex should have fired him. But he didn't. And now Alex has signed a contract that gives the 49ers control over Alex's fate over the next two years, a contract that was poorly negotiated by Alex's agent.

It is time for Alex to man up, for once. He does have leverage: If the 49ers refuse to release or trade him, he can refuse to show up and sit out. They cannot make him show up and practice. They would be forced to find another backup and would be exposed to the risk of Kap's injury. Alex has grown up slowly. Maybe this time he will show that he will finally look after his own interests, over a team that obviously cares not a wit about his. Each man for himself.

Leverage?

AS doesn't show up he doesn't get paid
Originally posted by excelsior:
As much as I have liked Alex over the years, I have been critical of how he has failed to protect his own professional interests. In a word, he has appeared to be naive and loyal in an old-fashioned sense. Most recently, he was played for a fool by his agent who also represented P. Manning. When the 49ers were courting Payton, there was no way that the agent could look after Payton's interest while doing the same for Alex. First, the agent should have removed himself from continuing to represent Alex, but he didn't - very unethical conflict of interest. That was when Alex should have fired him. But he didn't. And now Alex has signed a contract that gives the 49ers control over Alex's fate over the next two years, a contract that was poorly negotiated by Alex's agent.

It is time for Alex to man up, for once. He does have leverage: If the 49ers refuse to release or trade him, he can refuse to show up and sit out. They cannot make him show up and practice. They would be forced to find another backup and would be exposed to the risk of Kap's injury. Alex has grown up slowly. Maybe this time he will show that he will finally look after his own interests, over a team that obviously cares not a wit about his. Each man for himself.

Can't really blame Alex's agent when that was the only contract offered. If there were a couple other interested teams then his agent would have been able to get a better deal.
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Alex needs to take a pay cut and enjoy life as a backup. He would look like a lost girl from a small town in Hollywood. He has been guarded in SF by Mabagement, fans and especially when Harbaugh joined the team. In my opinion, if he even gets a starting position handed to him, he would be out of that position in 2 seasons and possibly his ticket out of the NFL shortly after that. I like Alex Smith and he is an awesome backup or even starter for us. It's just Kaep is not letting go of the same opportunity Alex got. Alex fits our team chemistry well because of Harbaughs coaching. Any other place is a career Suicide.
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

Originally posted by Born49R:
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

America is built on deceit.
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

The message it sends to the players is the best player starts. That's his job.

Not sure what America or Lance have to do with this lol.
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

America is built on deceit.
I'm well aware of that. Does'nt excuse anyone for behaving that way. I'm not some pollyanna. Karma has a way of bitting you on the ass. I just hope it doesn't bite Harbaugh and the team as a result.
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Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

America is built on deceit.

Actually it isn't! It just has deceitful people.
Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

The message it sends to the players is the best player starts. That's his job.

Not sure what America or Lance have to do with this lol.
That is not the message. The message is don't report your concussion because you may lose your spot. I can't believe you are that dense. Come on man!
It's obvious that Kaep is the better athlete and replacing Smith was the correct thing to do, it just could have been handled better.
And I shouldn't have to explain the big picture comments about ethics.
Originally posted by Born49R:
I'm well aware of that. Does'nt excuse anyone for behaving that way. I'm not some pollyanna. Karma has a way of bitting you on the ass. I just hope it doesn't bite Harbaugh and the team as a result.

Not saying it does. Just saying, I kind of understand why things are the way they are today.
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

The message it sends to the players is the best player starts. That's his job.

Not sure what America or Lance have to do with this lol.
That is not the message. The message is don't report your concussion because you may lose your spot. I can't believe you are that dense. Come on man!
It's obvious that Kaep is the better athlete and replacing Smith was the correct thing to do, it just could have been handled better.
And I shouldn't have to explain the big picture comments about ethics.

The simple version of this is "If Alex had lied, said he was fine and played a s**tty game against the bears because of the concussion, he'd still be the starter right now." Which implies that Harbaugh is telling his players to lie to him when it comes to injuries. Even if it isn't in the team's best interest.
[ Edited by Jakemall on Jan 19, 2013 at 6:56 PM ]
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

Just what in the f**k are you talking about? Are you off your meds?
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

The message it sends to the players is the best player starts. That's his job.

Not sure what America or Lance have to do with this lol.
That is not the message. The message is don't report your concussion because you may lose your spot. I can't believe you are that dense. Come on man!
It's obvious that Kaep is the better athlete and replacing Smith was the correct thing to do, it just could have been handled better.
And I shouldn't have to explain the big picture comments about ethics.

Why should it be different case because it's a QB? Shawnte Spencer got hurt last year and lost his spot to T-brown because brown came in and played better, I didn't hear people losing their minds over that.

The whole, "you can't lose your job to injury" is a myth. You very well can if the person that replaces plays better than you.

How could of it been handled better? Let the lesser player start just because of an injury? Doesn't make sense.

You make it seem like Harbaugh set player safety back 100 years with this decision. When in fact it has been common place in the NFL since it's inception.

Not dense, just have a different opinion than you
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

The message it sends to the players is the best player starts. That's his job.

Not sure what America or Lance have to do with this lol.
That is not the message. The message is don't report your concussion because you may lose your spot. I can't believe you are that dense. Come on man!
It's obvious that Kaep is the better athlete and replacing Smith was the correct thing to do, it just could have been handled better.
And I shouldn't have to explain the big picture comments about ethics.

Not every player has a guy sitting behind him who is potentially better. Justin Smith got hurt, no one came off the bench and took his job. If Dashon Goldson gets hurt, I doubt CJ Spillman or Trenton Robinson is going to step onto that field while Dashon is recovering and take his job. BUT--if you have that much depth, THAT'S A GOOD THING FOR YOUR TEAM. The better player should always be on the field, right? If you're a team player you should be happy that the team is being given the best chance to win...not that it wouldn't be a tough pill to swallow.

A player that lies about injury and plays anyway risks not just the team's well-being (by playing poorly) but his own. Suppose Alex plays through the concussion, gets hit again and has another, more severe concussion? He's negatively impacted his career, his future marketability, and his long-term health. Bottom line, players still have the responsibility to be smart about themselves and their careers, so I don't buy this "players will be motivated to lie" (any more than already exists in macho NFL culture).