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Week 16: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Marvin we all respect you. We all seem to respect Kap. Unfortunately at least 3 of us think we got the wrong guy under center. Will JH make the move back? No way. If Kap in time, can learn how to read D's, check down and call a successful play, he very well can be a special or elite QB. Unfortunately, fumble-fingering around at the LOS , unsure of what he saw or what to call...is not what we need at present. Kap cannot manufacture a yrs worth of experience in 5 games. It was a good try, but didn't work out. For that matter, NOBODY in the NFL can learn D sets and how to check down to workable play in 5 games. That part was really poorly thot through. Sorry Marvin, but we just don't agree. We do love your analyses tho...and I think we all love and respect Kap...just not under Center, at present.

Outstanding full post, pasodoc9er. Did not want to quote it all, but man, you really expressed what a lot of us are thinking about this situation.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Our running game has become a joke ever since Kaep took over. There is no doubt Kaep is the better qb. I don't dispute that one bit. He's athletically superior in every way. My problem is with the offense as a whole. Its always been the problem with this team and with Kaep at qb its still the problem its just that its a different problem. Yes our passing potential is better with Kaep in there but our running game which was at one point this season unstoppable, is non existent. The entire offense is not functioning.

Also, who is our best offensive player? Pretty sure its a unanimous Frank Gore. Gore is at his best running between the tackles with a lead blocker. He's not a shotgun back and yet now that Kaep is qb we are all pistol, shotgun, spread formations and I hate it. Yes we have more passing ability with Kaep at qb but at the cost of lowering the effectiveness of our best player and thats a serious problem IMO.

I don't want Smith starting. In fact I never want to see him start for us again. I just want to see Kaep run the style of offense we ran Smith. Haven't said much about it but the offense is starting to piss me off.

I don't think it is as easy as Kaep running the style we ran with Smith. The style we ran with Smith was perfectly suited for Smith. I want to see us run a style that's perfectly suited for Kaep.

I really like that full house pistol but I don't think that is the best style for Gore. LMJ may flourish from that set. There was a caller on The Game that said the RB is a little further back from the LOS in that set and it could be that the holes open and close before Gore gets there. The RB must be fast.

Who knows, this may be a shift from Smith, Gore, WRX to Kaep, LMJ, and Jenkins.

I hate that formation!!! Absolutely hate it. Not a fan of the zone read option crap at all. For as good as Kaep is, he is NOT Payton Manning, Tom Brady, nor does he have Matt Ryan's perimeter weapons. In fact, I can't think of a single advantageous reason for this team to spend that much time in any form of shotgun. Then you add in that we don't have a pass blocking line or a running back on the roster that can both block and run from that formation. This makes it easy on opposing defenses. They no longer have to respect our playaction because we don't run or pass well from that formation. This offense frustrates me more than last years offense and if Harbaugh turns turns this team into a spread shotgun/type offense I will be sick!! We look nothing like a west coast offense over the past 3 or 4 weeks.
Unnhh, one reason to be in shotgun is so that Kap doesn't fumble the snap from under center. 5 fumbles in NE almost gave me a stroke, right after I had my heart attack.(just kidding). The one comment above and before re: pistol , shotgun, and frank not running well from that set:

It may be true that frank doesn't run well from those sets, but in truth, he didn't get that many chances. The one thing that the pistol does do is help the qB just before handing off the ball to frank(or not), the qb gets a real good look at the OLB and what his move is.(explained by Gruden). It doesn't help with the OLB on the other side or the ILB. The pistol as well as the shotgun are much better for Kap, or any other qb to throw from. The argument that this is a bad set for Frank to run from is unfortunately, even more valid.
Just looking at some missed opportunities since the bye (which I think is our biggest problem) on offense:

vs STL - 4 fumbles (0 lost), missed FG, 5 sacks, 7 penalties for 66 yards, 2-11 on 3rd down
vs CHI - Zero turnovers/fumbles, 0 missed FG, 2 sacks, 5 penalites for 50 yards, 4-12 on 3rd down
@ NO - 2 turnovers, 2 missed FG, 0 sacks, 10 penalties for 68 yards, 6 for 13 on 3rd down
@ STL - 1 turnover, 1 missed FG, 3 sacks, 11 penalties for 97 yards, 8 for 19 on 3rd down
vs MIA - 1 fumble (recovered), 0 missed FG, 4 sacks, 6 penalties for 45 yards, 2 for 10 on 3rd down
vs NE - 6 fumbles (2 turnovers), 1 missed FG, 1 sack, 6 penalties for 88 yards, 5 for 14 on 3rd down
@ Sea - 2 turnovers, 1 blocked FG returned for TD, 1 sack, 6 penalties for 58 yards, 3 for 11 on 3rd down

Average since bye:
1 Turnover per game - still a good rate
2.3 sacks per game - mediocre
.9 blocked/missed FG per game - 2nd Worst FG rate in League
7.3 penalties per game for 67.4 yards per game - Bottom 5 in League
30 for 90 on 3rd down for 33.33% conversion rate - Bottom 5 in League

-I don't know what we can do about FG kicking but that alone is fatal to our SB run, major disadvantage in any close game.
-Penalties have been mostly on our D but its been bad sicne the break, we've handed the other team scoring drives because of them. Its on the coaches to clean this up. I know they need to play tough, but bottom 5 in the league?!?
-3rd down conversion rate We will lose in the 1st round with that rate...
Nice post SunDevil, I have been wondering just how bad it was. In a word, awful.
start with our FG kicker. If he has had a groin muscle pull , that gets better about 4-6 mos after the season. Good for PATS, and out to 30 yds, but anything more, not so much . FG kicker is not repsonsible for those blocks, the DL, or backs were.

7.3 penalties per game....lack of concentration, and that goes to poor or inattentive coaching. It is Coach H's team, and he should have taken care of this in every meeting begining about oh, 6 weeks ago. This is blatant coaching error. Bring it up in practice anytime someone gets flagged. Send them home with the thot, and remind them before, during and after practice. ALSO, we have had at least 3 personal fouls and maybe a 4th, during that time, some recently. And those are a bunch of boys with their testosterone off the charts and their IQ pushing 60, which is barely able to care for themselves and can dress themselves. Guys like that are a
COACHING PROBLEM. When those jerkheads pull that crap, they need to be yanked, and benched, at least a couple series, talked to, warned and then kicked off team if it happens again for disciplinary reasons. Guys like that kill 45 other guys playing by the rules. My recollection was a couple DBs, a couple DL. If a DL is consistently offsides, he needs special attn and needs talking to.

30 for 90 3rd down conversions. Coaching problem, starting last game with the horrendous call by OC for a 50 yd bomb on 1st down on our 15...in the slop and rain. That then left us in 2 pass plays both incomplete, a punt returned to 45 and at 1 min 42 seconds into game we were down 7 zip...and THAT'S the guy folks are worried about leaving here? Jeez, I'd pay Roman to go elsewhere wth game calls like that. To finish the thot, frank couldn't run into the box 8, or 9, sometimes 10, and it just cried out for a one or two stepper to get then off LOS. Nope, we went with 5, or 7 steppers, virtually all incomplete and kap had seahawks in his face all day. That is just plain crappy O playcalling. It didn't get better. Compare that to NE game first 2.5 qtrs, some of best playcalling ever...then 28 pts up we go into
prevent D, keeping everything in front of us, and worse, prevent O, frank for 3 yds three times and out. Bingo, 10 mins 22 seconds later, we were tied. Unhh oh, maybe this prevent isn't working too good. Alert! Harbaugh wakes up, calls an 8 yd buttonhook to crab, then a 32 yd RAC, and we win. Go figure the difference between those two games.

And for D game plan, we did, er what? It was awful , Fangio fell asleep and lynch and wilson ran us over, or passed us to death...against a 3-4 that was usually just 3 guys sometimes 4 coming. No blitzes against a guy who needed it. So there you go. 3rd down conversions are fixed by 5- 7 yd passes on first down. Not 50 yarders which kap throws beautifully but has actually connected on but a few. HOw incredible stupid that one call on first down was is incredible to ponder. so 3rd down conversions need to be helped out by good yrds, passing yds on first down, maybe second. Then if short give it to frank from a spread formation with all WRS split to both side of field. That'll give frank some room. Nah, I think fangio is just mediocre, and if he moved on, wouldn't break my heart. If roman is here next yr, just don't let him near the mike on play calls.

3 horrible points, all indicative of a team going downwards or south, not north or upwards. That describes perfectly at team peaking at playoffs to make it to one game and out. And, unfortunately, even wtih COY last yr, all are coaching based. My impression? Coach H is not getting good help in coaching O and D.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Dec 28, 2012 at 4:23 PM ]
Always look forward to your analysis! Even after awful games...

Obviously pretty much the entire team was outplayed by a fired-up Seattle team. CK also was playing a Smith-like game of mistake avoidance instead of what Wilson did, which was running around, creating possibilities for the receivers, picking up yards, tiring out the defenders. And of course the whole check-down thing was a terrible idea in that noisy stadium.

And Seattle not only was fired up, they played a perfect game, got any breaks and the refs simply seem to like them. In the pro world a team on a roll is really hard to stop.

I think the Niners could win it all, or they could suck it up against one of the other contenders. Same for the other good teams. The hot and lucky team will win it all. Any guess now would be a lucky guess.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Marvin, I hope you took no offense from any poster. We all love reading your second watchings. And by the way, we all, I believe, respect your defending Kap. I just hope we don't burn you out on this....as you are truly one of the good guys. It is fine if there is a disagreement and some lardhead doesn't say, "Well so and so is stupid for thinking that." More power to you for defending your points, and you have done a great job...again. We love you man.


LOL. No worries. The 'zone would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed.

I still believe that Kaep is the answer now and not later, but I see the reasons why people would think otherwise and I respect them. Some of those peeps see Kaeps struggles and think this is no time to give a QB time to "struggle". Bottom line for me tho is do you think this team can win it all with Alex. I think they can, but I think they have a better chance with Kaep now that he has gone through the crucible of the last portion of the schedule.

Just look at the rookie QBs. They have all had their performance take off here in the seconf half of the season. Russell Wilson had 5 TDs and 6 INTs after 6 games. It shoud have been 4 and 7 with the fiasco vs GB, but you get the point. Since then he's been one of the best QBs in the NFL.

I'm not blind to Kaeps struggles. I see them. What I think tho is that Kaep gives the team a better chance of reaching their ultimate goal than Alex does.

Is this a gamble? Absolutely. No question. Remember...I like Alex. I'd love him to stay and it a nightmare for me to think of him in Arizona.

The argument I always hear tho is that Kaep is for certain the future, but Alex should play NOW. I understand that thinking, but I think it's flawed. If you have the chance to get your QB for the next decade in there and get him a trial by fire before the games become life and death, I think you take it.

Is Alex the "safe" choice? Yes. Is this a slam dunk? No. My opinion tho is go big or go home.

My biggest concern tho is that the 49ers will lose in the playoffs and it will be put squarely in Laeps lap regardless of the events of the game or the final score. THAT is what I object to. This is a team that is banged up pretty bad and TIRED. There is a good chance they don't make their Super Bowl run thos year and it could have nothing to do with Kaeps performance.

I also look at this beyond this year. If Alex goes back under center or if Kaep had never taken over as the starter, where is his development NEXT year? With this situation playing out the way it has, we have a shot this year...but we also will have an EXPERIENCED Kaep under center NEXT year. Yes, we should all be thinking of this year, not next, but I'm just trying to illustrate a point.

EDIT: BTW...I'm putting together my first highlight vid in quite some time. Its a Kaep vid. Hoping to have it up on Monday after I capture the next game.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Dec 29, 2012 at 12:48 PM ]
how can some complain about Kaep's fumbles as if its a given thing? He fumbled early in the Patriots game, the coaches made adjustments with Kaep and Goodwin...and he hasn't fumbled since that early part of THAT game.

so why make it seem like he will always have those issues under center? In the Seattle game, he was worse conditions... continuous rain, and he didn't have his *usual* 5 fumble game.

again its ok to disagree with our coach's decision...but some seem to add stuff that is not even there to make their points.
I think the fatigue factor was the number 1 reason we lost, or at least the reason we got blown out. Back to back SNF games, back to back tough playoff teams, and back to back hostile environments. I think that's too much to handle for any team in this league. Even the Broncos and Falcons would've probably lost 1 or both. Switch this game with the Arizona game (NE, AZ, Seattle) and it would've been a whole different ball game. At least it would've been a lot closer.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
how can some complain about Kaep's fumbles as if its a given thing? He fumbled early in the Patriots game, the coaches made adjustments with Kaep and Goodwin...and he hasn't fumbled since that early part of THAT game.

so why make it seem like he will always have those issues under center? In the Seattle game, he was worse conditions... continuous rain, and he didn't have his *usual* 5 fumble game.

again its ok to disagree with our coach's decision...but some seem to add stuff that is not even there to make their points.

When your feelings are hurt and you don't really have a point, what can you do but make things up?

Try to be more understanding . . .

Paraphrasing what some poster said in one of the postings after a Chronical article (I could have said it better):

Before the QB switch: " Do you think that you know better than the coach? It's obvious that AS is better and Harbaugh knows it. CK needs to sit for a few more years."

After the QB switch: " The coach doesn't know what he's doing. The dumb f*** is ruining the Team's chances."

Same folks, but now with bruised egos, and striking back!
[ Edited by Rsrkshn on Dec 29, 2012 at 3:40 PM ]
Do we have a no-huddle or hurry-up offense? I kept looking for it in Seattle, but it didn't seem like we had that speed. Isn't this a huge liability?
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
how can some complain about Kaep's fumbles as if its a given thing? He fumbled early in the Patriots game, the coaches made adjustments with Kaep and Goodwin...and he hasn't fumbled since that early part of THAT game.

so why make it seem like he will always have those issues under center? In the Seattle game, he was worse conditions... continuous rain, and he didn't have his *usual* 5 fumble game.

again its ok to disagree with our coach's decision...but some seem to add stuff that is not even there to make their points.

When your feelings are hurt and you don't really have a point, what can you do but make things up?

Try to be more understanding . . .

Paraphrasing what some poster said in one of the postings after a Chronical article (I could have said it better):

Before the QB switch: " Do you think that you know better than the coach? It's obvious that AS is better and Harbaugh knows it. CK needs to sit for a few more years."

After the QB switch: " The coach doesn't know what he's doing. The dumb f*** is ruining the Team's chances."

Same folks, but now with bruised egos, and striking back!
The bold above is what's strange to me. I can see if Kaep was 0-6 but he is 4-2 possibly 5-2 with some impressive wins and once again in the playoffs. People seem to think it's a forgone conclusion that this team is done but once the playoffs start it's a new season.
[ Edited by JustaFan45 on Dec 29, 2012 at 4:43 PM ]
Either here or elsewhere someone mentioned that Fisher will have and answer to Wilson and Lynch. Reminds me to check in on that game, and see what the Best Defensive coach in the league has in mind. We might be needing it shortly.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Just looking at some missed opportunities since the bye (which I think is our biggest problem) on offense:

vs STL - 4 fumbles (0 lost), missed FG, 5 sacks, 7 penalties for 66 yards, 2-11 on 3rd down
vs CHI - Zero turnovers/fumbles, 0 missed FG, 2 sacks, 5 penalites for 50 yards, 4-12 on 3rd down
@ NO - 2 turnovers, 2 missed FG, 0 sacks, 10 penalties for 68 yards, 6 for 13 on 3rd down
@ STL - 1 turnover, 1 missed FG, 3 sacks, 11 penalties for 97 yards, 8 for 19 on 3rd down
vs MIA - 1 fumble (recovered), 0 missed FG, 4 sacks, 6 penalties for 45 yards, 2 for 10 on 3rd down
vs NE - 6 fumbles (2 turnovers), 1 missed FG, 1 sack, 6 penalties for 88 yards, 5 for 14 on 3rd down
@ Sea - 2 turnovers, 1 blocked FG returned for TD, 1 sack, 6 penalties for 58 yards, 3 for 11 on 3rd down

Average since bye:
1 Turnover per game - still a good rate
2.3 sacks per game - mediocre
.9 blocked/missed FG per game - 2nd Worst FG rate in League
7.3 penalties per game for 67.4 yards per game - Bottom 5 in League
30 for 90 on 3rd down for 33.33% conversion rate - Bottom 5 in League

-I don't know what we can do about FG kicking but that alone is fatal to our SB run, major disadvantage in any close game.
-Penalties have been mostly on our D but its been bad sicne the break, we've handed the other team scoring drives because of them. Its on the coaches to clean this up. I know they need to play tough, but bottom 5 in the league?!?
-3rd down conversion rate We will lose in the 1st round with that rate...

Valrod posted this another thread:




I found it to be alarming, and probably shows why there is such heated debate about this right now.