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Week 16: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Hello all,
Not that you want to hear it but after reading through this thread I had to throw in my 2 cents.

There seems to be some common themes coming from everyone as follows:

1) The 49ers were tired from the trip to New England followed by a trip to Seattle.

2) The 49ers had beaten Seattle 3 straight times with Smith/Harbaugh and therefore would have logically beaten Seattle a 4th time or at least performed much better than CK did.

3) Seattle got away with holding all day long, it was obvious watching the replays.

4) Seattles corners continually get away with holding, and it never gets called.

5) Not a lot of people mentioned it, but at least one that I read mentioned piped in crowd noise at Century Link.

6) Losing Justin Smith changed the entire game.

My thoughts are as follows:

1) I'm sure it is tough to travel cross country, play your butts off then have another road game the next week. Do you think it would have been easier to host New England on Sunday then travel to Seattle to play a Thursday night game with 2 less days to prepare? Because that is exactly what Seattle did when traveling to San Fran earlier this year. If a team has a full week to prepare then they have no excuses, whether it's back to back road games or not. This is the NFL, the team, coaches, and players should be ready with a full week. I know It's easy for me to say sitting on my butt, but I don't recall a lot of Seattle fans complaining when we lost earlier in the season. We lost. Period. It's a division game and we lost by 7 on a shortened week on the road. Should have played better.

2) Yes San Fran beat Seattle 3 straight times under Harbaugh. He inherited a playoff caliber team, and Seattle has turned over 75% of its roster in the last 2 years. If Seattle had beaten San Fran it would have been a huge upset. Seattles roster is now just about set, and their arrow is pointing up. If people think Seattle is keeping things status quo from last year they're mistaken. The "we always beat them" mentality is pretty comical. Teams and personnel change, if they stayed the same you can expect the same result, but if a team has improved, I don't think you can rest your hopes on "what has been will always be."

3) I learned after Super Bowl 40 that complaining about officiating makes you sound like an a-hole (as most Seattle fans did). The reality is Seattle did get away with a lot of holding.....so did San Fran.....so does every single team every single Sunday. I rewatched the game from Sunday, as I do with every game, and there was nothing out of the ordinary. You could call holding on every single play of every single game if you wanted to. That's the hazards of watching on a DVR. Rewatch the game when San Fran is on offense and you will see the same amount of non called holding on both sides.

4) Seattle corners do seem to get away with holding and down field contact every week. This has been going on for two years, with two separate coaches complaining publicly about it, and sending video to league officials on it. It continues to be allowed. So either it is not against the rules, or it is not something the league is going to enforce. So, does this make Seattle foolish for continuing to do it? Or does it make the rest of the teams foolish for not playing the same way? Kind of like a pitcher figuring out an umps strike zone.....find out how they're calling a game and play to it. You would be foolish not to.

5) There is no artificial crowd noise. It has been analyzed by the league, and there is nothing artificial about it. One is the stadium design, which similar to above, why wouldn't every team building a new stadium be hiring the same design firm? The other is just honestly Seattle fans in general. From the Kingdome, to Century Link Field with the hawks, Husky Stadium, the Sounders, and going back to when we still had the Sonics, they have all been labeled some of the hardest places to play when teams are performing well. Don't ask me why, I don't live in Seattle (hate the liberal city) but they consistently have the loudest fans regardless of sport and venue.

6) If one player makes that much of a difference on your team, then your management has done a poor job of building it. I hated Pete Carrol before he came to Seattle, namely out of ignorance, but have come full circle on him. He and Schnieder have built their team on the next man up mentality. So far it is serving them very well. If Justin Smith is that important to that defense, they have some problems!

Ok, I know you guys are moving on, as you should. But I have just been irked by some of the excuses I've been reading. We have lost to you the 3 times previous. You were better than us period. Well we've gotten better. I don't think 42-13 better, but from here on out I don't think previous records mean anything. It will hopefully be a battle every game.

Here's to an actual competitive division, with a heated rivalry for years to come!

P.S. I do agree with most of you that Sherman is a punk. I have said, if he didn't play for us I would hate him! But he is gooood. You have to give him his due. It isn't cool to see people wishing for injury though. I know you are a classier bunch than that.
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Now Justafan, Marv and I were talking pretty evenly until the gallery commented. Nah, just messin wit ya man, but i will say he and i kept the sarcasm to a dull drip, until u had to bang the drum.

Harbaugh justification, and all that, lemme point out your flaws of the same trap that i said Marv fell into.

I'll be damned again If i didnt say, just this game. Lets talk about this game. Then i'll be damned a third time, if u didnt bring up what happened in past games. ONly thing i said about other teams is that it's louder in Seachick land than in Pats territory. Then u brought up Akers, then Rams, then a partridge in a pair tree.

Thats what i mean. I adressed Marv when just like he said, he felt the need to add in what Smith could or probably couldnt of done. Which shouldnt of even been said because it was Kaep that started and not Smith. He didnt do it, but if Kaep had a bad game. Whats wrong with just saying he had a bad game. Why the need to put Smith in the justification of kaep's failings (or if not justification, then why at all, honestly). (And hope u dont start with the snappy smith comeback, lol)

In the zone, u ever notice that u ask one question about Kaep lately, and the first answer u get is the D, played this, Special Teams played that, he didnt score 42 pts. All right. (once again, just focusing on this game only)

But answer this question for me. If they scored 28pts in the first quarter. What does that have to do with us putting up points. IF we are getting blown out, is it bad to think that our Qb should be able to put some type of points on the board thru the first three quarters. I mean after every drive they scored. WE did get the ball back right. We did have an opportunity to score correct.

I didnt bring up past games, and aint gonna bring up next weeks game.

Seattle was a true test of late in the season, top defense, and a QB who was the equivalent to Kaep, in a noisy environment where true grit and being able to overcome the odds come into play. The D was on the field way too much, just like we used to say in the past, or are u gonna say we didnt say that either.

REgardless if i feel Harbs made the wrong decision, u chose to not adress my other post where i said i'm ride or dying with Kaep, just cuz thats who coach chooses. As a fan I dont have to agree with all decisions made, but im still a true fan none the less.

So once again. I just say Kaep looked more lost and confused in this hostile enviornment. I dont think he has mastered the art of being able to communicate with the silent signal and count, when to change in the right play, or back into the original. Is all this conjecture. Kind of hard to think that he can master the position in 6 games where it takes some years. Buuuuuut.... just like the reason coach made the switch, he is ready to handle the stage now. And if he is, in the middle of the season, when we were winning ,than he will be held accountable. And should be if he's helping take our team to the SB. Now's not the time for growing pains at QB. You deal with that in the offseason.

I hope Kaep helps us win next week. But one thing i did like that Wilson said, (heart hurting as im even giving any of their players credit), "What helps win a game is the GCP (Game Changing plays)." And in my personal opinion, in a game that mattered most, like the playoffs, that you have to win. Through 3 quarters, when he WAS able to make a play, or scramble, or run for 50 yards, or go deep 3-6 times a game he didnt do it. plain and simple. So in a loss, if i dont see anything until MM called it garbage time, then somethings gotta change. As harbaugh said, "maybe he has to simplify the offense a bit". Never heard that any time before till now.
Bruh I skimmed through this essay you wrote and all I'll say is this, the bottom line is you picked the wrong game to try and build a case for your boy to get back in the lineup. Kaep was the least of the problems in this game.

You and I both know your agenda in all this!
Marvin, you are a marvelous breaker-downer/ analyzer of games, and all of us have enjoyed your summaries. On the above, I am in agreement with virtually everything brot up by OTC and dj. LIke you said, you have your opinions, and we have ours. We 3 just disagree with you. No need for me to present my bullet points as the guys noted have got virtually all of them. One thing about the SEA fiasco, despite it being just after a superhuman effort in NE. Yeah, the guys were tired. Yeah, Justin gone means this is just another defense, and if you don't believe it, just look at the score. Our D looked bad. That said our O didn't help out much, and roman calling that long bomb that as usual sailed about 2-3 yds over the receiver., leaving us on the 15 yd line, in sleet and rain, on 2nd and 10. Incredible ugly playcalling. Then two ineffective passes, a punt and SEA has it on our 45. Man the O and D aren't the only ones playing bad, so are the coaches.

The one ugly fact that keeps coming up is , against a SEA team, in their house, first play of game, we got kap and the big arm. How much good did that do? It got us down 7 zip with 1minute and 42 seconds off the game clock. YOu don't throw 50 yd passes in the rain in sleet, from your own 15. Just thinking ahead two plays, roman should have figured out the downside. He didn't, and hence, in 3rd qtr, out came the clipboard again, and JH was once again calling the O.

As for Kap, he fumbled 4 times in NE. Good news is he didn't do it in SEA. Bad news is Kap is on the wrong side of the play calling learning curve, even tho, ROman and JH still get plays in late. Big problem in the SEA game was that Kap was LOST...as in really lost. On his check offs he was getting fooled. The check offs he called, for the most part were unsuccessful. Marvin, much as I respect you, to have a kid , a rook, calling plays in slop in SEA in a big game like this is just the wrong time to be learning. I still think if Coach H would suck it up and say, "guys I goofed", and put alex back in for CARDS game and beyond, we would still have a shot at SB. As is now, we don't. We need, especially at this time of the yr, playoffs just 1 and 1/2 weeks away, a guy calling the plays at LOS who KNOWS what is going on. Kap obviously didn't sunday nite and everybody in SEA green knew it.

Worst part of all this is, I love Kap. Great tools, great athlete, great guy, NO EXPERIENCE, and I would love to see him start...next yr.. Helluva way to make it to and then win the SB. Taking plays out of our play book to "dumbdown" for Kap has not helped us. If we have to do that, jeez put alex in. Also Kap's inexperience is not helping team morale. Nor is Kap's bearing. He put on his rain coat and spent most of the evening staring at the ground instead of trying to fire up his O...and D. I understand JH's wanting the best athlete in. Unfortunately he over reached by about 6 games..On top of all this, we literally abandoned the run game, or it got stuffed with box 8. Why JH, roman or kap didn't call dinks and dunks to get us some O , I just don't understand. That would have moved the box 8 off the LOS...and would have opened things up for frank. I can't wait for Kap to start next yr, with a full yr of learning D's under his belt. A sideshow like we saw on sunday nite makes it almost impossible for me to imagine us in the SB this yr, even tho Kap is by far the better athlete. That doesn't help him read D's tho. And it sure doesn't help him call the right play on a check down,which against SEA were virtually all negated by the SEA D.

Marvin we all respect you. We all seem to respect Kap. Unfortunately at least 3 of us think we got the wrong guy under center. Will JH make the move back? No way. If Kap in time, can learn how to read D's, check down and call a successful play, he very well can be a special or elite QB. Unfortunately, fumble-fingering around at the LOS , unsure of what he saw or what to call...is not what we need at present. Kap cannot manufacture a yrs worth of experience in 5 games. It was a good try, but didn't work out. For that matter, NOBODY in the NFL can learn D sets and how to check down to workable play in 5 games. That part was really poorly thot through. Sorry Marvin, but we just don't agree. We do love your analyses tho...and I think we all love and respect Kap...just not under Center, at present.
Originally posted by maltz88:
Hello all,
Not that you want to hear it but after reading through this thread I had to throw in my 2 cents.

There seems to be some common themes coming from everyone as follows:

1) The 49ers were tired from the trip to New England followed by a trip to Seattle.

2) The 49ers had beaten Seattle 3 straight times with Smith/Harbaugh and therefore would have logically beaten Seattle a 4th time or at least performed much better than CK did.

3) Seattle got away with holding all day long, it was obvious watching the replays.

4) Seattles corners continually get away with holding, and it never gets called.

5) Not a lot of people mentioned it, but at least one that I read mentioned piped in crowd noise at Century Link.

6) Losing Justin Smith changed the entire game.

My thoughts are as follows:

1) I'm sure it is tough to travel cross country, play your butts off then have another road game the next week. Do you think it would have been easier to host New England on Sunday then travel to Seattle to play a Thursday night game with 2 less days to prepare? Because that is exactly what Seattle did when traveling to San Fran earlier this year. If a team has a full week to prepare then they have no excuses, whether it's back to back road games or not. This is the NFL, the team, coaches, and players should be ready with a full week. I know It's easy for me to say sitting on my butt, but I don't recall a lot of Seattle fans complaining when we lost earlier in the season. We lost. Period. It's a division game and we lost by 7 on a shortened week on the road. Should have played better.

2) Yes San Fran beat Seattle 3 straight times under Harbaugh. He inherited a playoff caliber team, and Seattle has turned over 75% of its roster in the last 2 years. If Seattle had beaten San Fran it would have been a huge upset. Seattles roster is now just about set, and their arrow is pointing up. If people think Seattle is keeping things status quo from last year they're mistaken. The "we always beat them" mentality is pretty comical. Teams and personnel change, if they stayed the same you can expect the same result, but if a team has improved, I don't think you can rest your hopes on "what has been will always be."

3) I learned after Super Bowl 40 that complaining about officiating makes you sound like an a-hole (as most Seattle fans did). The reality is Seattle did get away with a lot of holding.....so did San Fran.....so does every single team every single Sunday. I rewatched the game from Sunday, as I do with every game, and there was nothing out of the ordinary. You could call holding on every single play of every single game if you wanted to. That's the hazards of watching on a DVR. Rewatch the game when San Fran is on offense and you will see the same amount of non called holding on both sides.

4) Seattle corners do seem to get away with holding and down field contact every week. This has been going on for two years, with two separate coaches complaining publicly about it, and sending video to league officials on it. It continues to be allowed. So either it is not against the rules, or it is not something the league is going to enforce. So, does this make Seattle foolish for continuing to do it? Or does it make the rest of the teams foolish for not playing the same way? Kind of like a pitcher figuring out an umps strike zone.....find out how they're calling a game and play to it. You would be foolish not to.

5) There is no artificial crowd noise. It has been analyzed by the league, and there is nothing artificial about it. One is the stadium design, which similar to above, why wouldn't every team building a new stadium be hiring the same design firm? The other is just honestly Seattle fans in general. From the Kingdome, to Century Link Field with the hawks, Husky Stadium, the Sounders, and going back to when we still had the Sonics, they have all been labeled some of the hardest places to play when teams are performing well. Don't ask me why, I don't live in Seattle (hate the liberal city) but they consistently have the loudest fans regardless of sport and venue.

6) If one player makes that much of a difference on your team, then your management has done a poor job of building it. I hated Pete Carrol before he came to Seattle, namely out of ignorance, but have come full circle on him. He and Schnieder have built their team on the next man up mentality. So far it is serving them very well. If Justin Smith is that important to that defense, they have some problems!

Ok, I know you guys are moving on, as you should. But I have just been irked by some of the excuses I've been reading. We have lost to you the 3 times previous. You were better than us period. Well we've gotten better. I don't think 42-13 better, but from here on out I don't think previous records mean anything. It will hopefully be a battle every game.

Here's to an actual competitive division, with a heated rivalry for years to come!

P.S. I do agree with most of you that Sherman is a punk. I have said, if he didn't play for us I would hate him! But he is gooood. You have to give him his due. It isn't cool to see people wishing for injury though. I know you are a classier bunch than that.

Good post, and I don't buy into any of the excuses as to why the niners lost. Holding or not, they got whipped. Hate to say it but the Seahawks look dominant right now, we'll see if that's true in a week, it seems every week there is a new best team in the NFL and each week they relinquish the title to someone else.
Originally posted by maltz88:
Hello all,
Not that you want to hear it but after reading through this thread I had to throw in my 2 cents.

There seems to be some common themes coming from everyone as follows:

1) The 49ers were tired from the trip to New England followed by a trip to Seattle.

2) The 49ers had beaten Seattle 3 straight times with Smith/Harbaugh and therefore would have logically beaten Seattle a 4th time or at least performed much better than CK did.

3) Seattle got away with holding all day long, it was obvious watching the replays.

4) Seattles corners continually get away with holding, and it never gets called.

5) Not a lot of people mentioned it, but at least one that I read mentioned piped in crowd noise at Century Link.

6) Losing Justin Smith changed the entire game.

My thoughts are as follows:

1) I'm sure it is tough to travel cross country, play your butts off then have another road game the next week. Do you think it would have been easier to host New England on Sunday then travel to Seattle to play a Thursday night game with 2 less days to prepare? Because that is exactly what Seattle did when traveling to San Fran earlier this year. If a team has a full week to prepare then they have no excuses, whether it's back to back road games or not. This is the NFL, the team, coaches, and players should be ready with a full week. I know It's easy for me to say sitting on my butt, but I don't recall a lot of Seattle fans complaining when we lost earlier in the season. We lost. Period. It's a division game and we lost by 7 on a shortened week on the road. Should have played better.

2) Yes San Fran beat Seattle 3 straight times under Harbaugh. He inherited a playoff caliber team, and Seattle has turned over 75% of its roster in the last 2 years. If Seattle had beaten San Fran it would have been a huge upset. Seattles roster is now just about set, and their arrow is pointing up. If people think Seattle is keeping things status quo from last year they're mistaken. The "we always beat them" mentality is pretty comical. Teams and personnel change, if they stayed the same you can expect the same result, but if a team has improved, I don't think you can rest your hopes on "what has been will always be."

3) I learned after Super Bowl 40 that complaining about officiating makes you sound like an a-hole (as most Seattle fans did). The reality is Seattle did get away with a lot of holding.....so did San Fran.....so does every single team every single Sunday. I rewatched the game from Sunday, as I do with every game, and there was nothing out of the ordinary. You could call holding on every single play of every single game if you wanted to. That's the hazards of watching on a DVR. Rewatch the game when San Fran is on offense and you will see the same amount of non called holding on both sides.

4) Seattle corners do seem to get away with holding and down field contact every week. This has been going on for two years, with two separate coaches complaining publicly about it, and sending video to league officials on it. It continues to be allowed. So either it is not against the rules, or it is not something the league is going to enforce. So, does this make Seattle foolish for continuing to do it? Or does it make the rest of the teams foolish for not playing the same way? Kind of like a pitcher figuring out an umps strike zone.....find out how they're calling a game and play to it. You would be foolish not to.

5) There is no artificial crowd noise. It has been analyzed by the league, and there is nothing artificial about it. One is the stadium design, which similar to above, why wouldn't every team building a new stadium be hiring the same design firm? The other is just honestly Seattle fans in general. From the Kingdome, to Century Link Field with the hawks, Husky Stadium, the Sounders, and going back to when we still had the Sonics, they have all been labeled some of the hardest places to play when teams are performing well. Don't ask me why, I don't live in Seattle (hate the liberal city) but they consistently have the loudest fans regardless of sport and venue.

6) If one player makes that much of a difference on your team, then your management has done a poor job of building it. I hated Pete Carrol before he came to Seattle, namely out of ignorance, but have come full circle on him. He and Schnieder have built their team on the next man up mentality. So far it is serving them very well. If Justin Smith is that important to that defense, they have some problems!

Ok, I know you guys are moving on, as you should. But I have just been irked by some of the excuses I've been reading. We have lost to you the 3 times previous. You were better than us period. Well we've gotten better. I don't think 42-13 better, but from here on out I don't think previous records mean anything. It will hopefully be a battle every game.

Here's to an actual competitive division, with a heated rivalry for years to come!

P.S. I do agree with most of you that Sherman is a punk. I have said, if he didn't play for us I would hate him! But he is gooood. You have to give him his due. It isn't cool to see people wishing for injury though. I know you are a classier bunch than that.

To your point 1...ah. Ya. I went to Seaturds message boards after our game and all they said was refs cost us the game and we had a short week and had to travel.
Originally posted by SportsFan:
To your point 1...ah. Ya. I went to Seaturds message boards after our game and all they said was refs cost us the game and we had a short week and had to travel.

I don't recall many on our boards, and don't remember any bad calls in that game. What I remember reading most about was the dropped passes, and yes a fair amount of talk about the short week.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:


Marvin we all respect you. We all seem to respect Kap. Unfortunately at least 3 of us think we got the wrong guy under center. Will JH make the move back? No way. If Kap in time, can learn how to read D's, check down and call a successful play, he very well can be a special or elite QB. Unfortunately, fumble-fingering around at the LOS , unsure of what he saw or what to call...is not what we need at present. Kap cannot manufacture a yrs worth of experience in 5 games. It was a good try, but didn't work out. For that matter, NOBODY in the NFL can learn D sets and how to check down to workable play in 5 games. That part was really poorly thot through. Sorry Marvin, but we just don't agree. We do love your analyses tho...and I think we all love and respect Kap...just not under Center, at present.

Great points in this part here in particular. Totally agree. That said, I still give all due respect to those with the differing opinion, Marvin included.
Originally posted by JustaFan45:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Now Justafan, Marv and I were talking pretty evenly until the gallery commented. Nah, just messin wit ya man, but i will say he and i kept the sarcasm to a dull drip, until u had to bang the drum.

Harbaugh justification, and all that, lemme point out your flaws of the same trap that i said Marv fell into.

I'll be damned again If i didnt say, just this game. Lets talk about this game. Then i'll be damned a third time, if u didnt bring up what happened in past games. ONly thing i said about other teams is that it's louder in Seachick land than in Pats territory. Then u brought up Akers, then Rams, then a partridge in a pair tree.

Thats what i mean. I adressed Marv when just like he said, he felt the need to add in what Smith could or probably couldnt of done. Which shouldnt of even been said because it was Kaep that started and not Smith. He didnt do it, but if Kaep had a bad game. Whats wrong with just saying he had a bad game. Why the need to put Smith in the justification of kaep's failings (or if not justification, then why at all, honestly). (And hope u dont start with the snappy smith comeback, lol)

In the zone, u ever notice that u ask one question about Kaep lately, and the first answer u get is the D, played this, Special Teams played that, he didnt score 42 pts. All right. (once again, just focusing on this game only)

But answer this question for me. If they scored 28pts in the first quarter. What does that have to do with us putting up points. IF we are getting blown out, is it bad to think that our Qb should be able to put some type of points on the board thru the first three quarters. I mean after every drive they scored. WE did get the ball back right. We did have an opportunity to score correct.

I didnt bring up past games, and aint gonna bring up next weeks game.

Seattle was a true test of late in the season, top defense, and a QB who was the equivalent to Kaep, in a noisy environment where true grit and being able to overcome the odds come into play. The D was on the field way too much, just like we used to say in the past, or are u gonna say we didnt say that either.

REgardless if i feel Harbs made the wrong decision, u chose to not adress my other post where i said i'm ride or dying with Kaep, just cuz thats who coach chooses. As a fan I dont have to agree with all decisions made, but im still a true fan none the less.

So once again. I just say Kaep looked more lost and confused in this hostile enviornment. I dont think he has mastered the art of being able to communicate with the silent signal and count, when to change in the right play, or back into the original. Is all this conjecture. Kind of hard to think that he can master the position in 6 games where it takes some years. Buuuuuut.... just like the reason coach made the switch, he is ready to handle the stage now. And if he is, in the middle of the season, when we were winning ,than he will be held accountable. And should be if he's helping take our team to the SB. Now's not the time for growing pains at QB. You deal with that in the offseason.

I hope Kaep helps us win next week. But one thing i did like that Wilson said, (heart hurting as im even giving any of their players credit), "What helps win a game is the GCP (Game Changing plays)." And in my personal opinion, in a game that mattered most, like the playoffs, that you have to win. Through 3 quarters, when he WAS able to make a play, or scramble, or run for 50 yards, or go deep 3-6 times a game he didnt do it. plain and simple. So in a loss, if i dont see anything until MM called it garbage time, then somethings gotta change. As harbaugh said, "maybe he has to simplify the offense a bit". Never heard that any time before till now.
Bruh I skimmed through this essay you wrote and all I'll say is this, the bottom line is you picked the wrong game to try and build a case for your boy to get back in the lineup. Kaep was the least of the problems in this game.

You and I both know your agenda in all this!

Now thats where i have to disagree bruh. No hidden tone, cuz as i've said all along. Kaep is our QB, and we ride or die with him.

Btw, we were talking bout Marv's comment, then the Seattle game, and all u got from that was my boy getting back in the line up. Got no boys on the team, tho i wish i did.

The only under tone here is once again talking about one subject Kaep and the game, and u thinking otherwise. But like my grandmomma taught me you cant control how a person mind works.
Marvin, I hope you took no offense from any poster. We all love reading your second watchings. And by the way, we all, I believe, respect your defending Kap. I just hope we don't burn you out on this....as you are truly one of the good guys. It is fine if there is a disagreement and some lardhead doesn't say, "Well so and so is stupid for thinking that." More power to you for defending your points, and you have done a great job...again. We love you man.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
The one ugly fact that keeps coming up is , against a SEA team, in their house, first play of game, we got kap and the big arm. How much good did that do? It got us down 7 zip with 1minute and 42 seconds off the game clock. YOu don't throw 50 yd passes in the rain in sleet, from your own 15. Just thinking ahead two plays, roman should have figured out the downside. He didn't, and hence, in 3rd qtr, out came the clipboard again, and JH was once again calling the O.

As for Kap, he fumbled 4 times in NE. Good news is he didn't do it in SEA. Bad news is Kap is on the wrong side of the play calling learning curve, even tho, ROman and JH still get plays in late. Big problem in the SEA game was that Kap was LOST...as in really lost. On his check offs he was getting fooled. The check offs he called, for the most part were unsuccessful. Marvin, much as I respect you, to have a kid , a rook, calling plays in slop in SEA in a big game like this is just the wrong time to be learning. I still think if Coach H would suck it up and say, "guys I goofed", and put alex back in for CARDS game and beyond, we would still have a shot at SB. As is now, we don't. We need, especially at this time of the yr, playoffs just 1 and 1/2 weeks away, a guy calling the plays at LOS who KNOWS what is going on. Kap obviously didn't sunday nite and everybody in SEA green knew it.

Worst part of all this is, I love Kap. Great tools, great athlete, great guy, NO EXPERIENCE, and I would love to see him start...next yr.. Helluva way to make it to and then win the SB. Taking plays out of our play book to "dumbdown" for Kap has not helped us. If we have to do that, jeez put alex in. Also Kap's inexperience is not helping team morale. Nor is Kap's bearing. He put on his rain coat and spent most of the evening staring at the ground instead of trying to fire up his O...and D. I understand JH's wanting the best athlete in. Unfortunately he over reached by about 6 games..On top of all this, we literally abandoned the run game, or it got stuffed with box 8. Why JH, roman or kap didn't call dinks and dunks to get us some O , I just don't understand. That would have moved the box 8 off the LOS...and would have opened things up for frank. I can't wait for Kap to start next yr, with a full yr of learning D's under his belt. A sideshow like we saw on sunday nite makes it almost impossible for me to imagine us in the SB this yr, even tho Kap is by far the better athlete. That doesn't help him read D's tho. And it sure doesn't help him call the right play on a check down,which against SEA were virtually all negated by the SEA D.

Marvin we all respect you. We all seem to respect Kap. Unfortunately at least 3 of us think we got the wrong guy under center. Will JH make the move back? No way. If Kap in time, can learn how to read D's, check down and call a successful play, he very well can be a special or elite QB. Unfortunately, fumble-fingering around at the LOS , unsure of what he saw or what to call...is not what we need at present. Kap cannot manufacture a yrs worth of experience in 5 games. It was a good try, but didn't work out. For that matter, NOBODY in the NFL can learn D sets and how to check down to workable play in 5 games. That part was really poorly thot through. Sorry Marvin, but we just don't agree. We do love your analyses tho...and I think we all love and respect Kap...just not under Center, at present.

Here's the problem I have with this argument (in bold). We had this problem with Alex as well. And it wasn't just the Seattle game either. It happened numerous times this season. Kap has had this issue when facing good defenses so far, Rams, Miami and Seattle.

As ugly as the offense looks with Kap under center, there really isn't that big of a difference of production from the offense with either QB. Neither QB looked good against Seattle's D.

I think it's a question of which you prefer, Kap's talent or Alex's experience. The only reason I'm giving Kap a slight edge is because of his performance against NE. Noone, and I mean noone goes in NE and does what he did. Except for Peyton Manning. The fact that Matt Schaub couldn't penetrate against that NE D with Foster and A. Johnson makes that win in NE even more impressive. There was no game that Alex had this season that impressed me as much. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the only QB performance that would even match what Kap did all season for any NFL QB was what Wilson did against the Niners D. But not really because it was in their house. (And no, I wouldn't say that comeback win for Peyton against the Chargers count because it's the Chargers who they had no business almost losing to in the first place)
Originally posted by YoungWifey:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
The one ugly fact that keeps coming up is , against a SEA team, in their house, first play of game, we got kap and the big arm. How much good did that do? It got us down 7 zip with 1minute and 42 seconds off the game clock. YOu don't throw 50 yd passes in the rain in sleet, from your own 15. Just thinking ahead two plays, roman should have figured out the downside. He didn't, and hence, in 3rd qtr, out came the clipboard again, and JH was once again calling the O.

As for Kap, he fumbled 4 times in NE. Good news is he didn't do it in SEA. Bad news is Kap is on the wrong side of the play calling learning curve, even tho, ROman and JH still get plays in late. Big problem in the SEA game was that Kap was LOST...as in really lost. On his check offs he was getting fooled. The check offs he called, for the most part were unsuccessful. Marvin, much as I respect you, to have a kid , a rook, calling plays in slop in SEA in a big game like this is just the wrong time to be learning. I still think if Coach H would suck it up and say, "guys I goofed", and put alex back in for CARDS game and beyond, we would still have a shot at SB. As is now, we don't. We need, especially at this time of the yr, playoffs just 1 and 1/2 weeks away, a guy calling the plays at LOS who KNOWS what is going on. Kap obviously didn't sunday nite and everybody in SEA green knew it.

Worst part of all this is, I love Kap. Great tools, great athlete, great guy, NO EXPERIENCE, and I would love to see him start...next yr.. Helluva way to make it to and then win the SB. Taking plays out of our play book to "dumbdown" for Kap has not helped us. If we have to do that, jeez put alex in. Also Kap's inexperience is not helping team morale. Nor is Kap's bearing. He put on his rain coat and spent most of the evening staring at the ground instead of trying to fire up his O...and D. I understand JH's wanting the best athlete in. Unfortunately he over reached by about 6 games..On top of all this, we literally abandoned the run game, or it got stuffed with box 8. Why JH, roman or kap didn't call dinks and dunks to get us some O , I just don't understand. That would have moved the box 8 off the LOS...and would have opened things up for frank. I can't wait for Kap to start next yr, with a full yr of learning D's under his belt. A sideshow like we saw on sunday nite makes it almost impossible for me to imagine us in the SB this yr, even tho Kap is by far the better athlete. That doesn't help him read D's tho. And it sure doesn't help him call the right play on a check down,which against SEA were virtually all negated by the SEA D.

Marvin we all respect you. We all seem to respect Kap. Unfortunately at least 3 of us think we got the wrong guy under center. Will JH make the move back? No way. If Kap in time, can learn how to read D's, check down and call a successful play, he very well can be a special or elite QB. Unfortunately, fumble-fingering around at the LOS , unsure of what he saw or what to call...is not what we need at present. Kap cannot manufacture a yrs worth of experience in 5 games. It was a good try, but didn't work out. For that matter, NOBODY in the NFL can learn D sets and how to check down to workable play in 5 games. That part was really poorly thot through. Sorry Marvin, but we just don't agree. We do love your analyses tho...and I think we all love and respect Kap...just not under Center, at present.

Here's the problem I have with this argument (in bold). We had this problem with Alex as well. And it wasn't just the Seattle game either. It happened numerous times this season. Kap has had this issue when facing good defenses so far, Rams, Miami and Seattle.

As ugly as the offense looks with Kap under center, there really isn't that big of a difference of production from the offense with either QB. Neither QB looked good against Seattle's D.

I think it's a question of which you prefer, Kap's talent or Alex's experience. The only reason I'm giving Kap a slight edge is because of his performance against NE. Noone, and I mean noone goes in NE and does what he did. Except for Peyton Manning. The fact that Matt Schaub couldn't penetrate against that NE D with Foster and A. Johnson makes that win in NE even more impressive. There was no game that Alex had this season that impressed me as much. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the only QB performance that would even match what Kap did all season for any NFL QB was what Wilson did against the Niners D. But not really because it was in their house. (And no, I wouldn't say that comeback win for Peyton against the Chargers count because it's the Chargers who they had no business almost losing to in the first place)

Couldn't have said it better. It is a matter of preference.
Our running game has become a joke ever since Kaep took over. There is no doubt Kaep is the better qb. I don't dispute that one bit. He's athletically superior in every way. My problem is with the offense as a whole. Its always been the problem with this team and with Kaep at qb its still the problem its just that its a different problem. Yes our passing potential is better with Kaep in there but our running game which was at one point this season unstoppable, is non existent. The entire offense is not functioning.

Also, who is our best offensive player? Pretty sure its a unanimous Frank Gore. Gore is at his best running between the tackles with a lead blocker. He's not a shotgun back and yet now that Kaep is qb we are all pistol, shotgun, spread formations and I hate it. Yes we have more passing ability with Kaep at qb but at the cost of lowering the effectiveness of our best player and thats a serious problem IMO.

I don't want Smith starting. In fact I never want to see him start for us again. I just want to see Kaep run the style of offense we ran Smith. Haven't said much about it but the offense is starting to piss me off.
[ Edited by NinerG94 on Dec 28, 2012 at 8:55 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Our running game has become a joke ever since Kaep took over. There is no doubt Kaep is the better qb. I don't dispute that one bit. He's athletically superior in every way. My problem is with the offense as a whole. Its always been the problem with this team and with Kaep at qb its still the problem its just that its a different problem. Yes our passing potential is better with Kaep in there but our running game which was at one point this season unstoppable, is non existent. The entire offense is not functioning.

Also, who is our best offensive player? Pretty sure its a unanimous Frank Gore. Gore is at his best running between the tackles with a lead blocker. He's not a shotgun back and yet now that Kaep is qb we are all pistol, shotgun, spread formations and I hate it. Yes we have more passing ability with Kaep at qb but at the cost of lowering the effectiveness of our best player and thats a serious problem IMO.

I don't want Smith starting. In fact I never want to see him start for us again. I just want to see Kaep run the style of offense we ran Smith. Haven't said much about it but the offense is starting to piss me off.

I think we have tried, but fumbling the ball 4 times under center doesn't help. Also not being able to make proper adjustments at the line doesn't help either.

In order for these things to work you have to have better execution. With Alex nearly every play was snapped with 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock. That doesn't leave you a lot of time to read a defense and make an adjustment. You have to be much quicker in every aspect if you expect these things to work. If you can't get the snap in your hands, you can't hand it off. If you can't even snap the play, how do you run?

Thus we have "simplified" the offense into a college offense. I agree though, have said all along we need to go back to our bread and butter. But possibly it's too much on the young guy. I myself am an Alex fan, but I'm not saying bench Kaep. But it does leave me concerned about the near future.
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Our running game has become a joke ever since Kaep took over. There is no doubt Kaep is the better qb. I don't dispute that one bit. He's athletically superior in every way. My problem is with the offense as a whole. Its always been the problem with this team and with Kaep at qb its still the problem its just that its a different problem. Yes our passing potential is better with Kaep in there but our running game which was at one point this season unstoppable, is non existent. The entire offense is not functioning.

Also, who is our best offensive player? Pretty sure its a unanimous Frank Gore. Gore is at his best running between the tackles with a lead blocker. He's not a shotgun back and yet now that Kaep is qb we are all pistol, shotgun, spread formations and I hate it. Yes we have more passing ability with Kaep at qb but at the cost of lowering the effectiveness of our best player and thats a serious problem IMO.

I don't want Smith starting. In fact I never want to see him start for us again. I just want to see Kaep run the style of offense we ran Smith. Haven't said much about it but the offense is starting to piss me off.

You know, we also had an issue with our run game late in the season last year as well. The reason why I don't mind it so much now is because a lot of teams have figured out that Gore and the run game is the bread and butter of our offense.

My main beef is the balance they need to find with our passing game and running game. BUT, I will say that I don't mind them using pass plays NOW to get our new QBs feet wet. But come playoff time, I wouldn't doubt that they'll put the ball back in Gore's hands again. The threat of Kap's arm is there and other teams know this. It really is all up to how well Harbaugh and Roman game plan against other defenses. These two are way too predictable and conservative IMO
[ Edited by YoungWifey on Dec 28, 2012 at 9:24 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Our running game has become a joke ever since Kaep took over. There is no doubt Kaep is the better qb. I don't dispute that one bit. He's athletically superior in every way. My problem is with the offense as a whole. Its always been the problem with this team and with Kaep at qb its still the problem its just that its a different problem. Yes our passing potential is better with Kaep in there but our running game which was at one point this season unstoppable, is non existent. The entire offense is not functioning.

Also, who is our best offensive player? Pretty sure its a unanimous Frank Gore. Gore is at his best running between the tackles with a lead blocker. He's not a shotgun back and yet now that Kaep is qb we are all pistol, shotgun, spread formations and I hate it. Yes we have more passing ability with Kaep at qb but at the cost of lowering the effectiveness of our best player and thats a serious problem IMO.

I don't want Smith starting. In fact I never want to see him start for us again. I just want to see Kaep run the style of offense we ran Smith. Haven't said much about it but the offense is starting to piss me off.

I don't think it is as easy as Kaep running the style we ran with Smith. The style we ran with Smith was perfectly suited for Smith. I want to see us run a style that's perfectly suited for Kaep.

I really like that full house pistol but I don't think that is the best style for Gore. LMJ may flourish from that set. There was a caller on The Game that said the RB is a little further back from the LOS in that set and it could be that the holes open and close before Gore gets there. The RB must be fast.

Who knows, this may be a shift from Smith, Gore, WRX to Kaep, LMJ, and Jenkins.