Week 16: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Well I have to say that I too like Marv's analysis, just differ when it comes to the smith debate.

Yes for starters, Kaep is our starter and we have to ride or die with him and i support coach if that's who he wants behind center. Always will support the HC whether i believe his decision making is best or not. Some say that because he took a chance on Smith, that we have to give Kaep a chance. I think this is true, it just sucks that it had to come at the expense of this years season.

Kaep does have it, and the intangibles somewhat. I do believe he will be something, but honestly wont commit to either side, because im still on the fence with him. Speaking strictly in regards to him, i just hate the move because, IT DIDNT HAVE TO BE MADE, IMHO.

I live somewhat by the adage that if it aint broke dont fix it. And thats what happened with us. Smith was replaced, because of the potential that kaep has in all phases of the game. So it came down to, do u go with the guy that has shown he can get it done, and was a few fumbles away from the SB, or go with an unproven guy that has tremendous upside, with the willingness to be able to say that working through the ups downs, wins and losses, will prepare him for the playoffs.

With Seattle, even u Marv, fell into the whole of trying to convey what Smith wouldnt of been able to do in that enviornment, when in all actuality, there is almost one thing he would of done, and i honestly feel, beat Seattle. Under harbs with Smith at center he's helped lead them to 3-0 vs Seattle. in the past 2 seasons, correct. One win in Seattle, and I think 2 at home. And thats actual proof not conjecture.

We equally are "hoping that Kaep can learn on the job, hoping that he'll redeem himself this week, better prepared for it down the road hopefully. But you see the key word there... Hoping and hopefully. Regardless of what we think we may have gotten in Smith, the point is we got 6-2 with him at the helm, before the new move was made, and now dealing with the idea of hope in a situation, where we shouldnt have to be, this late in the season.

Heath Evens on NFL network hates the move and has all season. But it was funny last night, when he said yeah, whats gonna happen when we dont make it far with kaep. The vets that want and have to win now because their future is uncertain, will now have almost wasted a season, becasue of what coach thought was the best decision. And as i said, even coach is human and can run the race with the hare, but we all know the tortoise wins in the end.

Harbs pulled a hare move, and i just feel that it may hurt us. But to let that deter my love for my team, or alter me following them, hell no. If i can make it through Rattay and Rashaun times, i can def stick with them through anything.

Go Niners!

I will never understand the thought process that Smith would have won in Seattle. I just don't get it. It makes no sense to me. He put 13 points on the board and struggled BADLY when they played in SF. Alot of that had to do with the Seattle DBs mugging the Niner receivers, but the same thing happened in Seattle. My thought process on the game in Seattle had never been that "Alex sucks so he couldn't win in Seattle either". It has been "Alex doesn't play special teams or defense and Seattle put 42 points on the board". The 49ers have scored 13 points twice against the Seahawks. In both games the Niners starting QB threw an INT in the end zone. What's the difference? In the second matchup, the other team blocked a FG and scored a TD, injured a starting WR who promptly fumbled the ball on a drive that was moving, and freakin scored AT WILL on the best D in the NFL.

I simply don't get the argument that Smith could have overcome all that. To watch that game in those circstances and come away thinking "yeah, the QB was the problem" is simply ludicrous. He was down 14-0 before he blinked.

Look, there are alot of peeps here who aren't in favor of the move to Kaep. That's all good, but the insistence on putting games where the D never gets off the bus on the QB is just nuts.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Deflecting the criticism of Kaep to Smith. Kool. What's new on the Zone...

Yeah...that what I'm doing. Yup. Got me pegged. It's not like I'm the guy who defended Alex...you know, since the day he was drafted.

Sigh.

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

BTW with this loss, i read where some say I have to have the same mindframe as i would of with Alex.

And if this is so, then lets give Kaep the harsh reality that we have when Smith was under center. Just like if a person asks what kind of ice cream flavors u like and u say well it depends on where u go. But thats not answering the main question. What flavor do u like, chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, etc.

in this case i use that example becasue the D let them score 42 points, but lets stop using that as the excuse for Kaeps lack of production. He failed to make something out of nothing period. I mean was Wilson just sitting in the pocket all day picking us off, no. He outplayed us, just like Kaep should of been able to do against their D.

It just came to me now, but I think the reason they went soo much with the pass this last week, because Kaep for starters has the arm. And if they are gonna run the same version of the O that they ran with Smith, then there is no need to put Kaep in. Problem is, when things broke down for kaep he couldnt make things happen. That smart decision making wasnt a factor. That rolling out and getting the 50yd run a game wasnt a factor. I mean s**t, if anything i would of like to had seen Kaep running and making things happen with his feet just as did Wilson.

So overall, please make sure u hear what im saying with no hidden meanings. Yes Kaep doesnt play defense, yes the playcalling was bad at times, and yes he didnt get much help. But now focusing on the offensive aspect, Kaep did nothing to help his team win. When he did get the ball back, and a good call was called, he either audibled out, or we stalled. just that simple.

And im focusing just on this game. not next weeks, not the new england game. Just this one. This was a true test of enviornment and playoff atmosphere. Actually more than New England, because their stadium is no where near the same as Chicken stadium. He failed to do anything until garbage time. Does this mean it will happen in next weeks game, nope. Does it mean he stinks, nope. or even mean he's not the QB of the future, nope.

But everytime someone says about what he didnt do. Can we stop with the Smith wouldnt of done that either, or he didnt score 42 points. Thats just a way of trying to find another out, rather than just taking ownership as we say for the aspect of the game, Kaep didnt help in. thats all tho. nutin personal

Uh...just a question. How do you know he audibled out of a good call? How is that clear?

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well I have to say that I too like Marv's analysis, just differ when it comes to the smith debate.

Yes for starters, Kaep is our starter and we have to ride or die with him and i support coach if that's who he wants behind center. Always will support the HC whether i believe his decision making is best or not. Some say that because he took a chance on Smith, that we have to give Kaep a chance. I think this is true, it just sucks that it had to come at the expense of this years season.

Kaep does have it, and the intangibles somewhat. I do believe he will be something, but honestly wont commit to either side, because im still on the fence with him. Speaking strictly in regards to him, i just hate the move because, IT DIDNT HAVE TO BE MADE, IMHO.

I live somewhat by the adage that if it aint broke dont fix it. And thats what happened with us. Smith was replaced, because of the potential that kaep has in all phases of the game. So it came down to, do u go with the guy that has shown he can get it done, and was a few fumbles away from the SB, or go with an unproven guy that has tremendous upside, with the willingness to be able to say that working through the ups downs, wins and losses, will prepare him for the playoffs.

With Seattle, even u Marv, fell into the whole of trying to convey what Smith wouldnt of been able to do in that enviornment, when in all actuality, there is almost one thing he would of done, and i honestly feel, beat Seattle. Under harbs with Smith at center he's helped lead them to 3-0 vs Seattle. in the past 2 seasons, correct. One win in Seattle, and I think 2 at home. And thats actual proof not conjecture.

We equally are "hoping that Kaep can learn on the job, hoping that he'll redeem himself this week, better prepared for it down the road hopefully. But you see the key word there... Hoping and hopefully. Regardless of what we think we may have gotten in Smith, the point is we got 6-2 with him at the helm, before the new move was made, and now dealing with the idea of hope in a situation, where we shouldnt have to be, this late in the season.

Heath Evens on NFL network hates the move and has all season. But it was funny last night, when he said yeah, whats gonna happen when we dont make it far with kaep. The vets that want and have to win now because their future is uncertain, will now have almost wasted a season, becasue of what coach thought was the best decision. And as i said, even coach is human and can run the race with the hare, but we all know the tortoise wins in the end.

Harbs pulled a hare move, and i just feel that it may hurt us. But to let that deter my love for my team, or alter me following them, hell no. If i can make it through Rattay and Rashaun times, i can def stick with them through anything.

Go Niners!

I will never understand the thought process that Smith would have one in Seattle. I just don't get it. It makes no sense to me. He put 13 points on the board and struggled BADLY when they played in SF. Alot of that had to do with the Seattle DBs mugging the Niner receivers, but the same thing happened in Seattle. My thought process on the game in Seattle had never been that "Alex sucks so he couldn't win in Seattle either". It has been "Alex doesn't play special teams or defense and Seattle put 42 points on the board". The 49ers have scored 13 points twice against the Seahawks. In both games the Niners starting QB threw an INT in the end zone. What's the difference? In the second matchup, the other team blocked a FG and scored a TD, injured a starting WR who promptly fumbled the ball on a drive that was moving, and freakin scored AT WILL on the best D in the NFL.

I simply don't get the argument that Smith could have overcome all that. To watch that game in those circstances and come away thinking "yeah, the QB was the problem" is simply ludicrous. He was down 14-0 before he blinked.

Look, there are alot of peeps here who aren't in favor of the move to Kaep. That's all good, but the insistence on putting games where the D never gets off the bus on the QB is just nuts.

I don't think it is that the QB is the problem, but the style of offense the team is moving towards to suit that QB. When it is working, it is great. When it isn't, it would be nice to see the balanced football that was so successful the last 1.5 years. Look at how NE adjusted to the quick short passes, ate our lunch. Granted, losing Justin Smith hurt a lot, and the offense change compounded on that.

Balanced football had been working, why mess with that?

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Win one game in what 6 tries and all of a sudden you think you have our number....these Seahawks make me laugh, I really hope we kill them in the playoffs....

Gonna be fights on the filed I think..big mouths need shutting..

Oh I know we win fist fights against Seattle.....thats the only reason they soooo chippy on the field, cause they know they can hide behind the refs......I know those punks wouldnt be talking and actin up if they were to see each other in an after school fight......

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Well I have to say that I too like Marv's analysis, just differ when it comes to the smith debate.

Yes for starters, Kaep is our starter and we have to ride or die with him and i support coach if that's who he wants behind center. Always will support the HC whether i believe his decision making is best or not. Some say that because he took a chance on Smith, that we have to give Kaep a chance. I think this is true, it just sucks that it had to come at the expense of this years season.

Kaep does have it, and the intangibles somewhat. I do believe he will be something, but honestly wont commit to either side, because im still on the fence with him. Speaking strictly in regards to him, i just hate the move because, IT DIDNT HAVE TO BE MADE, IMHO.

I live somewhat by the adage that if it aint broke dont fix it. And thats what happened with us. Smith was replaced, because of the potential that kaep has in all phases of the game. So it came down to, do u go with the guy that has shown he can get it done, and was a few fumbles away from the SB, or go with an unproven guy that has tremendous upside, with the willingness to be able to say that working through the ups downs, wins and losses, will prepare him for the playoffs.

With Seattle, even u Marv, fell into the whole of trying to convey what Smith wouldnt of been able to do in that enviornment, when in all actuality, there is almost one thing he would of done, and i honestly feel, beat Seattle. Under harbs with Smith at center he's helped lead them to 3-0 vs Seattle. in the past 2 seasons, correct. One win in Seattle, and I think 2 at home. And thats actual proof not conjecture.

We equally are "hoping that Kaep can learn on the job, hoping that he'll redeem himself this week, better prepared for it down the road hopefully. But you see the key word there... Hoping and hopefully. Regardless of what we think we may have gotten in Smith, the point is we got 6-2 with him at the helm, before the new move was made, and now dealing with the idea of hope in a situation, where we shouldnt have to be, this late in the season.

Heath Evens on NFL network hates the move and has all season. But it was funny last night, when he said yeah, whats gonna happen when we dont make it far with kaep. The vets that want and have to win now because their future is uncertain, will now have almost wasted a season, becasue of what coach thought was the best decision. And as i said, even coach is human and can run the race with the hare, but we all know the tortoise wins in the end.

Harbs pulled a hare move, and i just feel that it may hurt us. But to let that deter my love for my team, or alter me following them, hell no. If i can make it through Rattay and Rashaun times, i can def stick with them through anything.

Go Niners!

I will never understand the thought process that Smith would have one in Seattle. I just don't get it. It makes no sense to me. He put 13 points on the board and struggled BADLY when they played in SF. Alot of that had to do with the Seattle DBs mugging the Niner receivers, but the same thing happened in Seattle. My thought process on the game in Seattle had never been that "Alex sucks so he couldn't win in Seattle either". It has been "Alex doesn't play special teams or defense and Seattle put 42 points on the board". The 49ers have scored 13 points twice against the Seahawks. In both games the Niners starting QB threw an INT in the end zone. What's the difference? In the second matchup, the other team blocked a FG and scored a TD, injured a starting WR who promptly fumbled the ball on a drive that was moving, and freakin scored AT WILL on the best D in the NFL.

I simply don't get the argument that Smith could have overcome all that. To watch that game in those circstances and come away thinking "yeah, the QB was the problem" is simply ludicrous. He was down 14-0 before he blinked.

Look, there are alot of peeps here who aren't in favor of the move to Kaep. That's all good, but the insistence on putting games where the D never gets off the bus on the QB is just nuts.

I don't think it is that the QB is the problem, but the style of offense the team is moving towards to suit that QB. When it is working, it is great. When it isn't, it would be nice to see the balanced football that was so successful the last 1.5 years. Look at how NE adjusted to the quick short passes, ate our lunch. Granted, losing Justin Smith hurt a lot, and the offense change compounded on that.

Balanced football had been working, why mess with that?

If all we are talking about is play calling, then I'd have to agree with you. I'd personally be happy if they stoped any planned run by Kaep.

Originally posted by 80849er4life:

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:

Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Win one game in what 6 tries and all of a sudden you think you have our number....these Seahawks make me laugh, I really hope we kill them in the playoffs....

Gonna be fights on the filed I think..big mouths need shutting..

Oh I know we win fist fights against Seattle.....thats the only reason they soooo chippy on the field, cause they know they can hide behind the refs......I know those punks wouldnt be talking and actin up if they were to see each other in an after school fight......

Did you watch the game? The seahawks kicked the living sh$# out of the 49ers. They made us look bad. From what I saw on Sunday night I doubt we could beat their cheerleaders......

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well I have to say that I too like Marv's analysis, just differ when it comes to the smith debate.

Yes for starters, Kaep is our starter and we have to ride or die with him and i support coach if that's who he wants behind center. Always will support the HC whether i believe his decision making is best or not. Some say that because he took a chance on Smith, that we have to give Kaep a chance. I think this is true, it just sucks that it had to come at the expense of this years season.

Kaep does have it, and the intangibles somewhat. I do believe he will be something, but honestly wont commit to either side, because im still on the fence with him. Speaking strictly in regards to him, i just hate the move because, IT DIDNT HAVE TO BE MADE, IMHO.

I live somewhat by the adage that if it aint broke dont fix it. And thats what happened with us. Smith was replaced, because of the potential that kaep has in all phases of the game. So it came down to, do u go with the guy that has shown he can get it done, and was a few fumbles away from the SB, or go with an unproven guy that has tremendous upside, with the willingness to be able to say that working through the ups downs, wins and losses, will prepare him for the playoffs.

With Seattle, even u Marv, fell into the whole of trying to convey what Smith wouldnt of been able to do in that enviornment, when in all actuality, there is almost one thing he would of done, and i honestly feel, beat Seattle. Under harbs with Smith at center he's helped lead them to 3-0 vs Seattle. in the past 2 seasons, correct. One win in Seattle, and I think 2 at home. And thats actual proof not conjecture.

We equally are "hoping that Kaep can learn on the job, hoping that he'll redeem himself this week, better prepared for it down the road hopefully. But you see the key word there... Hoping and hopefully. Regardless of what we think we may have gotten in Smith, the point is we got 6-2 with him at the helm, before the new move was made, and now dealing with the idea of hope in a situation, where we shouldnt have to be, this late in the season.

Heath Evens on NFL network hates the move and has all season. But it was funny last night, when he said yeah, whats gonna happen when we dont make it far with kaep. The vets that want and have to win now because their future is uncertain, will now have almost wasted a season, becasue of what coach thought was the best decision. And as i said, even coach is human and can run the race with the hare, but we all know the tortoise wins in the end.

Harbs pulled a hare move, and i just feel that it may hurt us. But to let that deter my love for my team, or alter me following them, hell no. If i can make it through Rattay and Rashaun times, i can def stick with them through anything.

Go Niners!

I will never understand the thought process that Smith would have one in Seattle. I just don't get it. It makes no sense to me. He put 13 points on the board and struggled BADLY when they played in SF. Alot of that had to do with the Seattle DBs mugging the Niner receivers, but the same thing happened in Seattle. My thought process on the game in Seattle had never been that "Alex sucks so he couldn't win in Seattle either". It has been "Alex doesn't play special teams or defense and Seattle put 42 points on the board". The 49ers have scored 13 points twice against the Seahawks. In both games the Niners starting QB threw an INT in the end zone. What's the difference? In the second matchup, the other team blocked a FG and scored a TD, injured a starting WR who promptly fumbled the ball on a drive that was moving, and freakin scored AT WILL on the best D in the NFL.

I simply don't get the argument that Smith could have overcome all that. To watch that game in those circstances and come away thinking "yeah, the QB was the problem" is simply ludicrous. He was down 14-0 before he blinked.

Look, there are alot of peeps here who aren't in favor of the move to Kaep. That's all good, but the insistence on putting games where the D never gets off the bus on the QB is just nuts.

I love the healthy debates Marv, and your opinion is well accepted, but what doesnt make sense to me is that you cant see that regardless of how the game is won, which Qb was behind center and helped in the win. Whether we won by 1pt or 10. When we lost vs. the rams, did it matter if we lost by a few points or more. If we would of won that game instead of the tie, would we have worried about the latter. No.

Defense wins championships, but if you cant do ur own offensive part and score then defense dont mean crap. Did u remember where Crabs said we have to match the intensity of the Defense with scoring. Did they match that in Seattle, nah.

What wrong with thinking that some of the weaknesses Kaep had in this last game, that Smith had mastered. Or even a step further at the very least better equipped.

But at the end of the day let me ask you this. We can agree that at the end of the day whether it was special teams, the defense, Gore, or the QB. That at the end of the day it's the W that matters. NOt the semantics of the win.

This season the special teams, defense are helping Kaep win just like they did with Smith. And if anything helping Kaep more by scoring more points in the games since he's been under center.

And the conjecture about the D not getting off the bus, you see what i mean. I was talking about Kaep never getting on. And it shouldnt be that far fetched to think Smith would of won. We base it off of wins, and losses, and Smith has won against them, so not so idiotic to think he would of had a good game or at the least again, pulled of the slim victory.

So in this case we can def agree to disagree. i love debating, and in this case we see each others point of view, and thats all i can ask for.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
BTW with this loss, i read where some say I have to have the same mindframe as i would of with Alex.

And if this is so, then lets give Kaep the harsh reality that we have when Smith was under center. Just like if a person asks what kind of ice cream flavors u like and u say well it depends on where u go. But thats not answering the main question. What flavor do u like, chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, etc.

in this case i use that example becasue the D let them score 42 points, but lets stop using that as the excuse for Kaeps lack of production. He failed to make something out of nothing period. I mean was Wilson just sitting in the pocket all day picking us off, no. He outplayed us, just like Kaep should of been able to do against their D.

It just came to me now, but I think the reason they went soo much with the pass this last week, because Kaep for starters has the arm. And if they are gonna run the same version of the O that they ran with Smith, then there is no need to put Kaep in. Problem is, when things broke down for kaep he couldnt make things happen. That smart decision making wasnt a factor. That rolling out and getting the 50yd run a game wasnt a factor. I mean s**t, if anything i would of like to had seen Kaep running and making things happen with his feet just as did Wilson.

So overall, please make sure u hear what im saying with no hidden meanings. Yes Kaep doesnt play defense, yes the playcalling was bad at times, and yes he didnt get much help. But now focusing on the offensive aspect, Kaep did nothing to help his team win. When he did get the ball back, and a good call was called, he either audibled out, or we stalled. just that simple.

And im focusing just on this game. not next weeks, not the new england game. Just this one. This was a true test of enviornment and playoff atmosphere. Actually more than New England, because their stadium is no where near the same as Chicken stadium. He failed to do anything until garbage time. Does this mean it will happen in next weeks game, nope. Does it mean he stinks, nope. or even mean he's not the QB of the future, nope.

But everytime someone says about what he didnt do. Can we stop with the Smith wouldnt of done that either, or he didnt score 42 points. Thats just a way of trying to find another out, rather than just taking ownership as we say for the aspect of the game, Kaep didnt help in. thats all tho. nutin personal

Uh...just a question. How do you know he audibled out of a good call? How is that clear?

Come on now Marv, your a vet like me. You really want me to tell u how that's clear brotha. Well i'll just entertain ya. Their at the line of scrimmage. He looks, points a few places, then the formation changes. he looks around, sees a few other things, then the formation changes again. Then with a few seconds left, he turns and then calls a timeout. Happened a few times last game wouldnt u say. Wasnt because the original play wasnt given. I mean i have a hard time believeing that on all those timeouts it was cuz the incorrect call came in, know what i mean.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
BTW with this loss, i read where some say I have to have the same mindframe as i would of with Alex.

And if this is so, then lets give Kaep the harsh reality that we have when Smith was under center. Just like if a person asks what kind of ice cream flavors u like and u say well it depends on where u go. But thats not answering the main question. What flavor do u like, chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, etc.

in this case i use that example becasue the D let them score 42 points, but lets stop using that as the excuse for Kaeps lack of production. He failed to make something out of nothing period. I mean was Wilson just sitting in the pocket all day picking us off, no. He outplayed us, just like Kaep should of been able to do against their D.

It just came to me now, but I think the reason they went soo much with the pass this last week, because Kaep for starters has the arm. And if they are gonna run the same version of the O that they ran with Smith, then there is no need to put Kaep in. Problem is, when things broke down for kaep he couldnt make things happen. That smart decision making wasnt a factor. That rolling out and getting the 50yd run a game wasnt a factor. I mean s**t, if anything i would of like to had seen Kaep running and making things happen with his feet just as did Wilson.

So overall, please make sure u hear what im saying with no hidden meanings. Yes Kaep doesnt play defense, yes the playcalling was bad at times, and yes he didnt get much help. But now focusing on the offensive aspect, Kaep did nothing to help his team win. When he did get the ball back, and a good call was called, he either audibled out, or we stalled. just that simple.

And im focusing just on this game. not next weeks, not the new england game. Just this one. This was a true test of enviornment and playoff atmosphere. Actually more than New England, because their stadium is no where near the same as Chicken stadium. He failed to do anything until garbage time. Does this mean it will happen in next weeks game, nope. Does it mean he stinks, nope. or even mean he's not the QB of the future, nope.

But everytime someone says about what he didnt do. Can we stop with the Smith wouldnt of done that either, or he didnt score 42 points. Thats just a way of trying to find another out, rather than just taking ownership as we say for the aspect of the game, Kaep didnt help in. thats all tho. nutin personal

Uh...just a question. How do you know he audibled out of a good call? How is that clear?

Yeah Kap definitely didn't play well. We wouldn't have won with Alex Smith either obviously the way our whole team played. Even Joe Montana himself couldn't have won that game the way Seattle was holding on offense and on defense and not getting called for it and just how flat out bad we played.

However I think it is very safe to say that Alex Smith would have fared much better in that type of environment, simply because he has the experience, he is much more of an expert with our offense at this point, and is better suited at reading the defense.

Too often were we getting delay of game penalties and not getting to the line of scrimmage until there were like 5 seconds left on the play clock. This is very similar to what we saw last year when Smith was in his first year in this offense. We can not afford this slow paced offense in the playoffs. Alex was doing a fine job of getting the plays in this year and allowing himself to have time on the play clock to either kill the play or stick with it, based off of the defense he read. Now some of this slow paced type of offense may fall on the coaches, but a lot of it has to do with 'starting over' in a sense with a newer quarterback. That's why we saw it a lot earlier in the year last year. It rarely happened this year with Smith at the helm. Kap is having to go through these 'learning experiences', as where Smith was already fully accustomed to the offense and these types of environments in Seattle.

Some people are not getting it.

Last year's Defense and Special Teams were AMAZINGLY good. +28 in the turnover ratio and Akers set the single season scoring record (non TD).

This year, the Defense isn't getting as many turnovers and Akers is missing A LOT of FGs. When 2 out of the 3 phases of football aren't as dominant as they once were, you HAVE to step up that third area, the offense.

Originally posted by Marvin49:
This ain't last year. Peeps think of the Saints game and act as if that was a normal Alex Smith performance. We were 2 crazy fumbles away? I would submit we were 5 consecutive drives needing a meager 3 points away from the Super Bowl. The Williams fumble ended the game, but he should never have had to be back there in overtime taking back his 11th punt on a cold, rainy Candlestick night.

The Niners almost made it last year. Almost. That is no guarantee that will be the story every year. The margin for error was nearly nonexistent last year. The goal is to make this a team more capable of winning in January. You don't see how they are better? I guess that's fair. I don't see how Alex would have won in New England. I think he may have beaten the Rams though. He would have been crushed in Seattle (he doesn't play defense). Obviously, these are all my opinion.

Is the choice a slam dunk for Kaep? No. It has never been that. It was always a risky move. I like it though. Some peeps keep saying it should have been made in the offseason. I understand what you are saying, but I think Harbaugh thinks that if Kaep is the better player, he'd prefer not to wait till next year to get him in there when he doesn't think Alex will get them there. I really think that meltdown to the Giants convinced him they weren't ready. You don't like the notion that Alex is limited? Sorry you don't like it, but it's true. I've supported Alex on these forums for YEARS. Just read some of the early season versions of this post. I always knew tho that there were limitations.

I'm obviously riding with Harbaugh on this one.

Finally, the "apologetic approach". Look, I'll hold Kaep responsible for the stuff he's responsible for...just as I did with Alex Smith. I will also point out when he does GOOD things that Alex is incapable of. Bottom line tho, it didn't matter who was playing QB in this game because the D and special teams gave up 42 freakin points. Do you really think its reasonable to hold Kaep responsible in that situation...in that building...against that team. If so, you are grossly overestimating the roll of the QB.

I respect your opinions Marvin. you always seem to take a pretty middle of the road stance and don't overreact. So it is cool. I just think that stating that the team wasn't going to get to the Superbowl with Smith is pushing it too far.

Realistically I see the team as improving in some ways, but statistically, and balance wise? No I don't see some huge shift in production.

I see that Kaep produces more big plays. I like that. It is fun and exciting. I also see that he doesn't get everyone else involved in the same way. Some of our best weapons are underutilized because of his style (Gore, Davis) and it puts more pressure on the D which works against how they are built as a unit.

Those points are extremely strong IMO. I don't understand why anyone would argue against those. Now Kaep does add things like his mobility, escapability, bigger arm, etc. Again the team has pretty much changed its offense mid season though in order to accommodate his strengths. If He gets hot then it was worth it. I preferred the way the team was playing before. It would have been wiser to either put him in at the beginning of the season (with an off-season of developing the offense around him) or wait until the end of this season. Even if Smith took the team to the superbowl he could have been moved. I think it would have been more popular at that point than how it was done. It also would have been better for Kaep.

Edit:
As for the Seattle game. More Ball control may have changed that game. I think Alex could have been a calming influence and made that game a much closer one. But there is also a good chance that Alex has an off game, or doesn't sustain drives etc. I'm not just blaming Kaep at all. The D was bad. I am just concerned about how the new offensive style hurts the D as I stated earlier.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well I have to say that I too like Marv's analysis, just differ when it comes to the smith debate.

Yes for starters, Kaep is our starter and we have to ride or die with him and i support coach if that's who he wants behind center. Always will support the HC whether i believe his decision making is best or not. Some say that because he took a chance on Smith, that we have to give Kaep a chance. I think this is true, it just sucks that it had to come at the expense of this years season.

Kaep does have it, and the intangibles somewhat. I do believe he will be something, but honestly wont commit to either side, because im still on the fence with him. Speaking strictly in regards to him, i just hate the move because, IT DIDNT HAVE TO BE MADE, IMHO.

I live somewhat by the adage that if it aint broke dont fix it. And thats what happened with us. Smith was replaced, because of the potential that kaep has in all phases of the game. So it came down to, do u go with the guy that has shown he can get it done, and was a few fumbles away from the SB, or go with an unproven guy that has tremendous upside, with the willingness to be able to say that working through the ups downs, wins and losses, will prepare him for the playoffs.

With Seattle, even u Marv, fell into the whole of trying to convey what Smith wouldnt of been able to do in that enviornment, when in all actuality, there is almost one thing he would of done, and i honestly feel, beat Seattle. Under harbs with Smith at center he's helped lead them to 3-0 vs Seattle. in the past 2 seasons, correct. One win in Seattle, and I think 2 at home. And thats actual proof not conjecture.

We equally are "hoping that Kaep can learn on the job, hoping that he'll redeem himself this week, better prepared for it down the road hopefully. But you see the key word there... Hoping and hopefully. Regardless of what we think we may have gotten in Smith, the point is we got 6-2 with him at the helm, before the new move was made, and now dealing with the idea of hope in a situation, where we shouldnt have to be, this late in the season.

Heath Evens on NFL network hates the move and has all season. But it was funny last night, when he said yeah, whats gonna happen when we dont make it far with kaep. The vets that want and have to win now because their future is uncertain, will now have almost wasted a season, becasue of what coach thought was the best decision. And as i said, even coach is human and can run the race with the hare, but we all know the tortoise wins in the end.

Harbs pulled a hare move, and i just feel that it may hurt us. But to let that deter my love for my team, or alter me following them, hell no. If i can make it through Rattay and Rashaun times, i can def stick with them through anything.

Go Niners!

I will never understand the thought process that Smith would have won in Seattle. I just don't get it. It makes no sense to me. He put 13 points on the board and struggled BADLY when they played in SF. Alot of that had to do with the Seattle DBs mugging the Niner receivers, but the same thing happened in Seattle. My thought process on the game in Seattle had never been that "Alex sucks so he couldn't win in Seattle either". It has been "Alex doesn't play special teams or defense and Seattle put 42 points on the board". The 49ers have scored 13 points twice against the Seahawks. In both games the Niners starting QB threw an INT in the end zone. What's the difference? In the second matchup, the other team blocked a FG and scored a TD, injured a starting WR who promptly fumbled the ball on a drive that was moving, and freakin scored AT WILL on the best D in the NFL.

I simply don't get the argument that Smith could have overcome all that. To watch that game in those circstances and come away thinking "yeah, the QB was the problem" is simply ludicrous. He was down 14-0 before he blinked.

Look, there are alot of peeps here who aren't in favor of the move to Kaep. That's all good, but the insistence on putting games where the D never gets off the bus on the QB is just nuts.

It's called ball control. How does the opposition score 41 when we don't give them the ball? WIth Alex they had the ball 1 time in both first quarters. He maintained 9 minutes of TOP in his first game, and 10 minutes in his second game in the first quarter. By not giving them 3 and outs every possesion we do not allow them to score 41 points. That's 4+ minutes last game of ball control. With Kaep it was -11 minutes, and that's including the 5:22 seconds of the garbage time TD.

So with Alex WE COULD POSSIBLY of had 15+ more minutes of ball control. You can't score 42 points with 15 minutes less. Even 10 minutes less, maybe even 5 minutes. Now I think this convo. sucks cause there is really no way to know, but this is my opinion. Alex could have maintained more possesion. With him we had +4 minutes. With Kaep -11 minutes. That's a full quarter of football right there.

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

BTW with this loss, i read where some say I have to have the same mindframe as i would of with Alex.

And if this is so, then lets give Kaep the harsh reality that we have when Smith was under center. Just like if a person asks what kind of ice cream flavors u like and u say well it depends on where u go. But thats not answering the main question. What flavor do u like, chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, etc.

in this case i use that example becasue the D let them score 42 points, but lets stop using that as the excuse for Kaeps lack of production. He failed to make something out of nothing period. I mean was Wilson just sitting in the pocket all day picking us off, no. He outplayed us, just like Kaep should of been able to do against their D.

It just came to me now, but I think the reason they went soo much with the pass this last week, because Kaep for starters has the arm. And if they are gonna run the same version of the O that they ran with Smith, then there is no need to put Kaep in. Problem is, when things broke down for kaep he couldnt make things happen. That smart decision making wasnt a factor. That rolling out and getting the 50yd run a game wasnt a factor. I mean s**t, if anything i would of like to had seen Kaep running and making things happen with his feet just as did Wilson.

So overall, please make sure u hear what im saying with no hidden meanings. Yes Kaep doesnt play defense, yes the playcalling was bad at times, and yes he didnt get much help. But now focusing on the offensive aspect, Kaep did nothing to help his team win. When he did get the ball back, and a good call was called, he either audibled out, or we stalled. just that simple.

And im focusing just on this game. not next weeks, not the new england game. Just this one. This was a true test of enviornment and playoff atmosphere. Actually more than New England, because their stadium is no where near the same as Chicken stadium. He failed to do anything until garbage time. Does this mean it will happen in next weeks game, nope. Does it mean he stinks, nope. or even mean he's not the QB of the future, nope.

But everytime someone says about what he didnt do. Can we stop with the Smith wouldnt of done that either, or he didnt score 42 points. Thats just a way of trying to find another out, rather than just taking ownership as we say for the aspect of the game, Kaep didnt help in. thats all tho. nutin personal

Uh...just a question. How do you know he audibled out of a good call? How is that clear?

Come on now Marv, your a vet like me. You really want me to tell u how that's clear brotha. Well i'll just entertain ya. Their at the line of scrimmage. He looks, points a few places, then the formation changes. he looks around, sees a few other things, then the formation changes again. Then with a few seconds left, he turns and then calls a timeout. Happened a few times last game wouldnt u say. Wasnt because the original play wasnt given. I mean i have a hard time believeing that on all those timeouts it was cuz the incorrect call came in, know what i mean.

I'm just sayin alot of people are making alot of assumptions about how Smith would have played in Seattle.

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:

It's called ball control. How does the opposition score 41 when we don't give them the ball? WIth Alex they had the ball 1 time in both first quarters. He maintained 9 minutes of TOP in his first game, and 10 minutes in his second game in the first quarter. By not giving them 3 and outs every possesion we do not allow them to score 41 points. That's 4+ minutes last game of ball control. With Kaep it was -11 minutes, and that's before the 5:22 seconds of the garbage time TD.

So with Alex WE COULD POSSIBLY of had 15+ more minutes of ball control. You can't score 42 points with 15 minutes less. Even 10 minutes less, maybe even 5 minutes. Now I think this convo. sucks cause there is really no way to know, but this is my opinion. Alex could have maintained more possesion. With him we had +4 minutes. With Kaep -11 minutes. That's a full quarter of football right there.

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Well I have to say that I too like Marv's analysis, just differ when it comes to the smith debate.

Yes for starters, Kaep is our starter and we have to ride or die with him and i support coach if that's who he wants behind center. Always will support the HC whether i believe his decision making is best or not. Some say that because he took a chance on Smith, that we have to give Kaep a chance. I think this is true, it just sucks that it had to come at the expense of this years season.

Kaep does have it, and the intangibles somewhat. I do believe he will be something, but honestly wont commit to either side, because im still on the fence with him. Speaking strictly in regards to him, i just hate the move because, IT DIDNT HAVE TO BE MADE, IMHO.

I live somewhat by the adage that if it aint broke dont fix it. And thats what happened with us. Smith was replaced, because of the potential that kaep has in all phases of the game. So it came down to, do u go with the guy that has shown he can get it done, and was a few fumbles away from the SB, or go with an unproven guy that has tremendous upside, with the willingness to be able to say that working through the ups downs, wins and losses, will prepare him for the playoffs.

With Seattle, even u Marv, fell into the whole of trying to convey what Smith wouldnt of been able to do in that enviornment, when in all actuality, there is almost one thing he would of done, and i honestly feel, beat Seattle. Under harbs with Smith at center he's helped lead them to 3-0 vs Seattle. in the past 2 seasons, correct. One win in Seattle, and I think 2 at home. And thats actual proof not conjecture.

We equally are "hoping that Kaep can learn on the job, hoping that he'll redeem himself this week, better prepared for it down the road hopefully. But you see the key word there... Hoping and hopefully. Regardless of what we think we may have gotten in Smith, the point is we got 6-2 with him at the helm, before the new move was made, and now dealing with the idea of hope in a situation, where we shouldnt have to be, this late in the season.

Heath Evens on NFL network hates the move and has all season. But it was funny last night, when he said yeah, whats gonna happen when we dont make it far with kaep. The vets that want and have to win now because their future is uncertain, will now have almost wasted a season, becasue of what coach thought was the best decision. And as i said, even coach is human and can run the race with the hare, but we all know the tortoise wins in the end.

Harbs pulled a hare move, and i just feel that it may hurt us. But to let that deter my love for my team, or alter me following them, hell no. If i can make it through Rattay and Rashaun times, i can def stick with them through anything.

Go Niners!

I will never understand the thought process that Smith would have won in Seattle. I just don't get it. It makes no sense to me. He put 13 points on the board and struggled BADLY when they played in SF. Alot of that had to do with the Seattle DBs mugging the Niner receivers, but the same thing happened in Seattle. My thought process on the game in Seattle had never been that "Alex sucks so he couldn't win in Seattle either". It has been "Alex doesn't play special teams or defense and Seattle put 42 points on the board". The 49ers have scored 13 points twice against the Seahawks. In both games the Niners starting QB threw an INT in the end zone. What's the difference? In the second matchup, the other team blocked a FG and scored a TD, injured a starting WR who promptly fumbled the ball on a drive that was moving, and freakin scored AT WILL on the best D in the NFL.

I simply don't get the argument that Smith could have overcome all that. To watch that game in those circstances and come away thinking "yeah, the QB was the problem" is simply ludicrous. He was down 14-0 before he blinked.

Look, there are alot of peeps here who aren't in favor of the move to Kaep. That's all good, but the insistence on putting games where the D never gets off the bus on the QB is just nuts.

It's called ball control. How does the opposition score 41 when we don't give them the ball? WIth Alex they had the ball 1 time in both first quarters. He maintained 9 minutes of TOP in his first game, and 10 minutes in his second game in the first quarter. By not giving them 3 and outs every possesion we do not allow them to score 41 points. That's 4+ minutes last game of ball control. With Kaep it was -11 minutes, and that's including the 5:22 seconds of the garbage time TD.

So with Alex WE COULD POSSIBLY of had 15+ more minutes of ball control. You can't score 42 points with 15 minutes less. Even 10 minutes less, maybe even 5 minutes. Now I think this convo. sucks cause there is really no way to know, but this is my opinion. Alex could have maintained more possesion. With him we had +4 minutes. With Kaep -11 minutes. That's a full quarter of football right there.

Wow. That a reach of the first order. Yeah... Alex never had a 3 and out. LOL!!! Did everyone forget the Niners FIRST game with Seattle!?! It was SEATTLE who played ball control in this game because they converted almost every single third down they were encountered with. Seattle scored a TD almost every single time they had the ball. Is your expection that Smith would have methodically done the same thing...even though he has never done so and mustered a grand total of 6 points in the first half in their first meeting?

This reasoning makes zero sense.