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49ers have good deep ball Recivers.?

Originally posted by rEspEctdA49ers:
Kaep's got the arm and accuracy for it, Moss, Manningham, VD, and Crabs have the receiving ability to go out and get those throws for big plays, just requires some practice and execution.

Arm yes, accuracy, not so much.

How many deep passes have they actually even attempted since Kap became starter? That answer is telling. This is one of the reasons I find the QB switch to be so laughable. You want this guy because he can make plays with his stronger arm, but then you call the same conservative nickel and dime game you did with Alex.

It's the worst of both worlds. Conservative offense, and young QB mistakes/lack of preparation.
Originally posted by kray28:
Arm yes, accuracy, not so much.

How many deep passes have they actually even attempted since Kap became starter? That answer is telling. This is one of the reasons I find the QB switch to be so laughable. You want this guy because he can make plays with his stronger arm, but then you call the same conservative nickel and dime game you did with Alex.

It's the worst of both worlds. Conservative offense, and young QB mistakes/lack of preparation.

Most of this is true. But Kaep's legs still gives the offense an edge if we're asking both to manage the game.
[ Edited by SFrush on Dec 14, 2012 at 1:42 PM ]
Originally posted by HearstFan:
THE 49ers passing scheme BLOWS. Just being frank. To be fair, it is okay, but it is pretty rudimentary and VERY conservative.

The bold part above is the key - and JH/Roman's major weakness in the passing game. For good deep ball teams (Saints, Patriots, Denver, Pittsburgh, Chargers) the route combinations and scheme are what create the open receiver -- speed helps, but the key is running route combinations the pull defenders and coverages off a receiver and break the receiver loose deep. It doesn't have to be WIDE open, but just enough to get a step on the defender OR creates a big open hole in the coverage scheme.

MOST deep balls are thrown because the route combination against a particular defense (game planning) breaks the receiver loose deep. Otherwise, there are only a few QBs that can throw the deep ball into tight coverage and still beat the coverage with consistency - Brees is the best. Most of E Manning, P Manning, and Brady's deep balls are thown to receivers beating coverage by scheme.

49ers deep route combinations SUCK. They are very simple route combinations which appear primarily designed to run off coverage and get an underneath crossing route loose. We almost never throw the deep ball in the middle of the field - they throw it most often toward the sideline.

Also, the 49ers passing attack is very focused on throws outside the hashes or numbers. Even their slant routes are typically thrown on the hash. The route combinations rarely work on the open zones in the middle of the field. One of VDs most successful routes was the seam route right between the LB and S, and with good ball placement he often beat tight coverage. I haven't seen the 49ers attempt that route/throw ALL YEAR.

That is why CK's 1st game was so thrilling - he was making throws into the middle of the field - and successfully. It looked so different compared to the standard JH offense. NOW, 3 games later CK looks a heck of a lot like ASmith. Working the throws underneath and to the outside. Granted, he has a stronger arm, so those outside throws are more successful.

Thank you for trying to answer my question. I was waiting for someone smart to come along
He doesn't have glue on his hands like Crabtree, but TED GINN is probably the FASTEST player on the team.
  • ace52
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 324
To complete deep throws, we need an O line that can pass protect long enough for the receivers to get downfield.
Without that element, having a strong-armed, accurate QB and deep-ball receivers (like Moss) still won't do us any good. We will still be limited to short and intermediate routes.
Originally posted by ace52:
To complete deep throws, we need an O line that can pass protect long enough for the receivers to get downfield.
Without that element, having a strong-armed, accurate QB and deep-ball receivers (like Moss) still won't do us any good. We will still be limited to short and intermediate routes.

True the O line needs to block enough for kap to show off his big arm...I feel we got the recivers for the deep ball with Randy Moss ofcourse not in his prime but still probaly the best Deep ball Reciver to ever play the game.., and Mario Manningham could e a deep threat as well as Vernon Davis and I feel walker has the abiltty to be a deep threat as well... but like you said it starts with the pass protection.
You got Ck7 with the big arm.. and he got these group of guys to trow to

1. Randy Moss+
2. Mario Manningham+
3. Crabtree.
4.Ted Gin.
5.A.J Jenkins.
6Vernon Davis.+
7.Delanie Walker.+

Now they should be able to strech the field with that group and kaps arm.
~ Manningham is not a great deep WR. He's more of a possession WR. He's not that fast. Deceptively quick. But not long fast.
~ Randy Moss is older and toward the end of his career.
~ AJ Jenkins hasn't done anything in the NFL yet.
~ Crabtree is certainly a possession WR.


VD is the only true deep threat. And we keep him in to block and never throw him the ball....
I also agree with the oline issue, but can't figure out why the 49ers caliber of oline talent struggles to pass protect.

Staley is not strong at the point of attack, but moves well enough to pass protect.
Iupati appear to be more than adequate
Goodwin in not particularly powerful
Boone I'm not sure yet, will have to watch closely
A Davis is really good 95% of the time, but then come up with whiffing completely - that may be more protection call then him personally.

But it seems to me the lack of protection has less to do with talent and more to do with limitations of the protection schemes.

Hmmm, maybe that is why other coaches don't like all the praise JH gets, they see the flaws in his scheme.
When you throw the ball 20 times a game you are not likely going to have a deep threat.
Originally posted by ace52:
To complete deep throws, we need an O line that can pass protect long enough for the receivers to get downfield.
Without that element, having a strong-armed, accurate QB and deep-ball receivers (like Moss) still won't do us any good. We will still be limited to short and intermediate routes.

+1. They are calling the right game - run and short to intermediate routes. This OLINE can't pass protect for the deep ball. Sadly, to get to the Super Bowl you have to have this in your arsenal otherwise you become too one dimensional for the better teams. Even sadder, we have skilled long ball receivers but the QB's can't even get a 5 step drop. Maybe when scratching their heads in the off season, the brain trust will finally realize it all starts in the trenches and what worked 20 years ago doesn't necessarily work today.
Kap's deep balls are freakin lasers. 60 mph footballs?