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49ers have good deep ball Recivers.?

First of all they have CK7 who can trow a deep ball very well..., and listen... we have Randy Moss who is one of the best deep ball recivers to ever play the gamee.. Mario Manningam Is a good deep ball reciver...so is Vernon Davis as proven in the pass...Crabtree is solid and starting to emarge all around Reciver.. and Walker I think is a good vertical threat.. then thres Aj jenkins.. I think we got a good Crop of deep ball recivers on the rostor with Kaepernick a Qb who could trow the deep ball at any given time...with that said I wanna see more big plays and the deep ball being thrown more often.. with are solid run game.. just a tought.
It's a combo of things. We are not a deep ball team. That's the main thing. a lot of people blamed Smith for lack of it. But we are not a deep ball type of team. We take it when it sorta look like a sure thing. But we mostly operate short to medium routes. We go deep on playaction when we play a team that has aggressive safeties, because the run game is our mainstay. I like to think we have the combo of receivers that can go deep, but the overall passing game offense just doesn't look like it's 'seasoned' enough to make going deep a better option in an already low percentage type routes.

What I often don't understand is what the other teams are doing that seemed to get the defense to make blown coverage for that deep connection. Like the Patriots were doing to the Texans.
I recall hearing that in our summer camp it was a rarity to see them practice ANY pass over 15 yards in length. It's mind-boggling isn't it?
It's the fact that besides Manningham none of the other wr's have shown the ability to beat press coverage and make plays deep. Randy Moss used to be able to do that he just can't anymore.
Originally posted by lamontb:
It's the fact that besides Manningham none of the other wr's have shown the ability to beat press coverage and make plays deep. Randy Moss used to be able to do that he just can't anymore.


I agree with this....let's draft a speedster like Tavon Austin next draft.
We need a guy with quickness and size. Quickness to get open at the line with the press. Enough size to not get bumped off his routes - which I've seen with both Mannigham and Williams. Michael Crabtree size with Manningham quickness. Or just trade all of them for Victor Cruz
Originally posted by pete98146:
Originally posted by lamontb:
It's the fact that besides Manningham none of the other wr's have shown the ability to beat press coverage and make plays deep. Randy Moss used to be able to do that he just can't anymore.


I agree with this....let's draft a speedster like Tavon Austin next draft.
Please I want Tavon Austin on this team so the defenders can say this...

[ Edited by Willisfn4life on Dec 14, 2012 at 11:38 AM ]
Originally posted by 49ers201:
First of all they have CK7 who can trow a deep ball very well..., and listen... we have Randy Moss who is one of the best deep ball recivers to ever play the gamee.. Mario Manningam Is a good deep ball reciver...so is Vernon Davis as proven in the pass...Crabtree is solid and starting to emarge all around Reciver.. and Walker I think is a good vertical threat.. then thres Aj jenkins.. I think we got a good Crop of deep ball recivers on the rostor with Kaepernick a Qb who could trow the deep ball at any given time...with that said I wanna see more big plays and the deep ball being thrown more often.. with are solid run game.. just a tought.


for the life of me i dont get the preoccupation with the niners throwing the deep ball

how often do those plays hit for any team? is ther any team in nfl that bases their offense on the deep ball? maybe but none come to me off the top of my head

the emphasis for the niners should be on their run game--it is their bread and butter...it is what the oline was assembled to do, block for power runningame...it is what the o.c. roman coaches best...gore is maybe the niners best offensive player...it can help set up play action

i rally think that this preoccuption with the deep ball, not here but within the niners braintrust, has derailed the offense---
I just wanna see a couple shots to teddy ginn!
We'll never know...
well at least now we know it wasnt Alex Smith who was afraid to throw the deep ball, it is the coaching staff, you might as well throw number 11 on CK... looks like the same QB out there
Kaep's got the arm and accuracy for it, Moss, Manningham, VD, and Crabs have the receiving ability to go out and get those throws for big plays, just requires some practice and execution.
Originally posted by forty9ers:
well at least now we know it wasnt Alex Smith who was afraid to throw the deep ball, it is the coaching staff, you might as well throw number 11 on CK... looks like the same QB out there

Everything stays the same. Same offense. Same routes. Same play call. Same conservativeness asked out of the qb position. Same sparseness of deep ball. Same checkdowns. With one exception...

Kaep and the pistol.

LINK

Adding one dimension that Smith doesn't have. We are 1% better with Kaep
Originally posted by hofer36:
for the life of me i dont get the preoccupation with the niners throwing the deep ball

how often do those plays hit for any team? is ther any team in nfl that bases their offense on the deep ball? maybe but none come to me off the top of my head

the emphasis for the niners should be on their run game--it is their bread and butter...it is what the oline was assembled to do, block for power runningame...it is what the o.c. roman coaches best...gore is maybe the niners best offensive player...it can help set up play action

i rally think that this preoccuption with the deep ball, not here but within the niners braintrust, has derailed the offense---


I'm not too worried about the deep ball. I am concerned about our inability to complete the intermediate length passes. When the opposing defense knows you 1) have a very slim chance of completing a 25 yard pass and or 2) won't even bother to try a 25 yard pass then they have a distinct advantage in that they can keep everything in front of them, stack the box and concentrate on stopping the run.

Isn't this why CK was giving the nod over Alex ie to bring a new dimension to our stale bread offense? It's all about having the ability to pass or run at will with success. Unfortunately the 49ers in their present state cannot lay claim to being a balanced offensive football team. Harbaugh, Roman and Baalke have their work cut out for them.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
It's a combo of things. We are not a deep ball team. That's the main thing. a lot of people blamed Smith for lack of it. But we are not a deep ball type of team. We take it when it sorta look like a sure thing. But we mostly operate short to medium routes. We go deep on playaction when we play a team that has aggressive safeties, because the run game is our mainstay. I like to think we have the combo of receivers that can go deep, but the overall passing game offense just doesn't look like it's 'seasoned' enough to make going deep a better option in an already low percentage type routes.

What I often don't understand is what the other teams are doing that seemed to get the defense to make blown coverage for that deep connection. Like the Patriots were doing to the Texans.

THE 49ers passing scheme BLOWS. Just being frank. To be fair, it is okay, but it is pretty rudimentary and VERY conservative.

The bold part above is the key - and JH/Roman's major weakness in the passing game. For good deep ball teams (Saints, Patriots, Denver, Pittsburgh, Chargers) the route combinations and scheme are what create the open receiver -- speed helps, but the key is running route combinations the pull defenders and coverages off a receiver and break the receiver loose deep. It doesn't have to be WIDE open, but just enough to get a step on the defender OR creates a big open hole in the coverage scheme.

MOST deep balls are thrown because the route combination against a particular defense (game planning) breaks the receiver loose deep. Otherwise, there are only a few QBs that can throw the deep ball into tight coverage and still beat the coverage with consistency - Brees is the best. Most of E Manning, P Manning, and Brady's deep balls are thown to receivers beating coverage by scheme.

49ers deep route combinations SUCK. They are very simple route combinations which appear primarily designed to run off coverage and get an underneath crossing route loose. We almost never throw the deep ball in the middle of the field - they throw it most often toward the sideline.

Also, the 49ers passing attack is very focused on throws outside the hashes or numbers. Even their slant routes are typically thrown on the hash. The route combinations rarely work on the open zones in the middle of the field. One of VDs most successful routes was the seam route right between the LB and S, and with good ball placement he often beat tight coverage. I haven't seen the 49ers attempt that route/throw ALL YEAR.

That is why CK's 1st game was so thrilling - he was making throws into the middle of the field - and successfully. It looked so different compared to the standard JH offense. NOW, 3 games later CK looks a heck of a lot like ASmith. Working the throws underneath and to the outside. Granted, he has a stronger arm, so those outside throws are more successful.