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Why do you guys think our offense looked lame?

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Oh. I thought you were talking about "bread and butter" plays, which i took as one play.

Def will be a test this weekend. I think our D hold them to about 17-20. Can't really predict the offense because, well, our O is sporadic

Plurals can be quite confusing...that darn "s" is devious. My favorite, and least favorite, sports metaphors are from boxing. Walsh knew that you use one play to set up another and that by knowing the defense really well you can move them around by formation and personnel, putting them at a disadvantage--punch counter punch; jab, jab, right cross. Roman does that really well in the run game, running out of passing formations, wham blocks, all sorts of ways to give the blockers an advantage over the defenders. He does not do that nearly as well in the passing game. That is my point. There seems to be a run first mentality on this team, more so than when Raye was here. If they are setting up to be more creative in the playoffs--fine. CK's stronger arm is not being used which seems an oversight (not really but...?).
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 15, 2012 at 9:47 AM ]
We're innovative in the run game but the passing game isn't cutting it. We too often rely on gimmicks in the passing game rather than just superior design and scheming our players open. Teams are keying on Davis and we're content to let them give lots of attention to them and give the ball to somebody else. Which is exactly what the defense wants us to do. They'd rather risk possibly getting beat by our WR's than getting beat by our most dynamic receiving threat. It would be better if we could be creative in finding ways to get the ball to VD instead of just letting defenses take him out of the game.
Lame on third down conversions.
We still dont make those perfect NFL throws, to covered guys where only our man can get it. We have superior athletes to oppositions DB's. VD, Crabs AND Moss still has something left. But in the Red Zone we dont put up a back shoulder to Moss, or at least properly. And since AZ i thought we would see that great play design of the quick bullet to Crabs off the LOS for a TD, but that never showed up again.

Our offensive coaching and play calling is bi polar, but without rhyme or reason, and even our running game has dropeed off, i have faith we can re invent our run game at any given time and pick up good yards, but we cant win all our games against great opponents without an aerial assault that stresses the D.

I hope we dont have to wait much longer because time is running out, we have the talent, neither QB is really all that great, but if we are going to do more of the same put the QB who is an expert at the status quo back in there, or else assault teams like the bears game with CK's arm and accuracy.
Originally posted by jcashen87:
We still dont make those perfect NFL throws, to covered guys where only our man can get it. We have superior athletes to oppositions DB's. VD, Crabs AND Moss still has something left. But in the Red Zone we dont put up a back shoulder to Moss, or at least properly. And since AZ i thought we would see that great play design of the quick bullet to Crabs off the LOS for a TD, but that never showed up again.

Our offensive coaching and play calling is bi polar, but without rhyme or reason, and even our running game has dropeed off, i have faith we can re invent our run game at any given time and pick up good yards, but we cant win all our games against great opponents without an aerial assault that stresses the D.

I hope we dont have to wait much longer because time is running out, we have the talent, neither QB is really all that great, but if we are going to do more of the same put the QB who is an expert at the status quo back in there, or else assault teams like the bears game with CK's arm and accuracy.

That is a fair assessment, I am hoping to see them open it up tomorrow so that it isn't all up to the D.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Why is everyone avoiding the obvious. When you bench your best QB then your offense will suffer. Kap's passing yards continue to deteriorate. I'm definitely concerned.

Kap's the reason why.

Can you elaborate on why you think he's the reason?

BTW I agree with you.
Not to sound like a jerk, that's not my intent, but like I said just look at the diminishing yards on the passing stats, he's passed for less yards each game, which indicates the defenses are catching on to his habits, and how he reads the D. We are also averaging less rushing yards per game under Kap than Smith (leaving out the rushing stats in the Rams game due to the change in QB ingame), I believe that's probably connected with the calls at the line of scrimmage. He's not as good at reading the D to change the play as Smith is.
Kap: 142
Smith: 169

Are we winning? So far yes, but I am not liking the trend.
[ Edited by truekingcarlos on Dec 15, 2012 at 3:18 PM ]
Originally posted by jcashen87:
We still dont make those perfect NFL throws, to covered guys where only our man can get it. We have superior athletes to oppositions DB's. VD, Crabs AND Moss still has something left. But in the Red Zone we dont put up a back shoulder to Moss, or at least properly. And since AZ i thought we would see that great play design of the quick bullet to Crabs off the LOS for a TD, but that never showed up again.

Our offensive coaching and play calling is bi polar, but without rhyme or reason, and even our running game has dropeed off, i have faith we can re invent our run game at any given time and pick up good yards, but we cant win all our games against great opponents without an aerial assault that stresses the D.

I hope we dont have to wait much longer because time is running out, we have the talent, neither QB is really all that great, but if we are going to do more of the same put the QB who is an expert at the status quo back in there, or else assault teams like the bears game with CK's arm and accuracy.


Kaep has made a ton of those throws. The one to Kyle Williams against the Bears? The one to Delanie Walker for the probable win in St. Luis? The 50 yard pass to Moss? None of those guys had more than a step on the DB. It's a huge upgrade that we can now look forward to.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Dec 15, 2012 at 3:27 PM ]
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Not to sound like a jerk, that's not my intent, but like I said just look at the diminishing yards on the passing stats, he's passed for less yards each game, which indicates the defenses are catching on to his habits, and how he reads the D. We are also averaging less rushing yards per game under Kap than Smith (leaving out the rushing stats in the Rams game due to the change in QB ingame), I believe that's probably connected with the calls at the line of scrimmage. He's not as good at reading the D to change the play as Smith is.
Kap: 142
Smith: 169

Are we winning? So far yes, but I am not liking the trend.

Gore wore down last year and perhaps Harbaugh wants to create alternatives to Gore so that the team is less dependent Now with Hunter out it may be even more important.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Not to sound like a jerk, that's not my intent, but like I said just look at the diminishing yards on the passing stats, he's passed for less yards each game, which indicates the defenses are catching on to his habits, and how he reads the D. We are also averaging less rushing yards per game under Kap than Smith (leaving out the rushing stats in the Rams game due to the change in QB ingame), I believe that's probably connected with the calls at the line of scrimmage. He's not as good at reading the D to change the play as Smith is.
Kap: 142
Smith: 169

Are we winning? So far yes, but I am not liking the trend.

Gore wore down last year and perhaps Harbaugh wants to create alternatives to Gore so that the team is less dependent Now with Hunter out it may be even more important.

This is my primary concern right now. Our offense hinges too heavily on Gore and we have absolutely no suitable replacement should he get injured. I am fearing what would happen if we lost him for the season. Who could fill his role? We got a rookie and a fullback right now and that's about it. So then our offense falls squarely on our second year QB so teams only have to stop a one dimensional offense.

It scares me at this point in the season for Gore to be taking 90% of the carries.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by jcashen87:
We still dont make those perfect NFL throws, to covered guys where only our man can get it. We have superior athletes to oppositions DB's. VD, Crabs AND Moss still has something left. But in the Red Zone we dont put up a back shoulder to Moss, or at least properly. And since AZ i thought we would see that great play design of the quick bullet to Crabs off the LOS for a TD, but that never showed up again.

Our offensive coaching and play calling is bi polar, but without rhyme or reason, and even our running game has dropeed off, i have faith we can re invent our run game at any given time and pick up good yards, but we cant win all our games against great opponents without an aerial assault that stresses the D.

I hope we dont have to wait much longer because time is running out, we have the talent, neither QB is really all that great, but if we are going to do more of the same put the QB who is an expert at the status quo back in there, or else assault teams like the bears game with CK's arm and accuracy.


Kaep has made a ton of those throws. The one to Kyle Williams against the Bears? The one to Delanie Walker for the probable win in St. Luis? The 50 yard pass to Moss? None of those guys had more than a step on the DB. It's a huge upgrade that we can now look forward to.

Those were great throws i agree on that, but its not really the throw im talking about. Back shoulder where literally a few inches seperates the catch and the defenders out stretched hand. Where the WR is covered very well but the QB still drops it in there on a dime. Trent Dilfer always raves about these throws even though he likely never made one.

I think kaep can get to this level, but theres probably ten QB's who make these throws week in and week out, we don't call any risky plays either and our guys are coached to basically take the least risk possible and let the Defense do its thing.

FOr the record the only one i have really seen on our team this year was maybe the Alex to Crabs TD in AZ, a bullet right past a defenders hand where only crabs could get it, and it might have been the first time i have seen Alex do it. One of the passes to Crabs by Kaep where it got rifled in there before two defenders coudl converge was pretty good, but im more just talking about when a Defender is step for step, has good to great coverage and the defense still gets beat. Those are the types of plays that seem to do a lot of damage in the NFL now. We win on scheme, so when our scheme doesn't get guys open its very hard for us to win, i think Kaep can become more of the type to rely on talents and scheme though which would be great, i just dont see him doing many great things right now since that Bears game. Hope he picks it up and does great against NE. BB is gonna be gunning for him.
Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by InconvenienTTruth21:
Originally posted by Furlow:
It makes me sick to my stomach watching the Redskins on offense. RGIII has all the talent and potential in the world, and Shanahan is wasting it away by having him run around like it's flag football. He should be shot.

It's a gimmick offense, and again, it's a disgrace. We are getting away from our roots, from what Harbaugh said he would return us to. Are we really falling for this nonsense?


RGIII is flourishing in that offense. That offense fits him perfectly, that's why he's playing at such a high level.
18 passing TDs and just 4 INTs with a 104 passer rating as well as 748 rushing yards and and 6 rushing TDs.

I wouldn't call that a waste of talent at all. Shanahan is doing a great job using RGIII
He's also sustained a major concussion and nearly blew out his knee, in his first year. He has NO CHANCE at Super Bowls and a legacy as a Pistol offense QB. None.

It is a disservice to him, Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick, etc - to not force them to stay in the pocket and develop their passing skills. That is how Super Bowls are won. That is football, in it's purest form, the way it was meant to be played. Until they put a flag belt on the QB's, that is how it will stay. Hopefully anyway.

lol a very mild ankle sprain = nearly blew out his knee okay.

Shanahan is doing a great job using RGIII in what fits his talents the best.
I know stats don't mean too much, but 18 pass TDs, just 4 Ints and 700+ rushing yards with another 6 rushing TDs is amazing for a rookie.
by the way, that offense is ranked #5 in yards per game and #7 in points scored. As "gimmicky" as you may think it is, it's working great for them.

And RGIII can do it all, he can throw from in or out of the pocket, can throw it deep or short. Why would they force him to stay in the pocket when he can run for another 80 yards per game and score more points that way?

Kirk Cousins starting this week due to RGIII's injury. Still think he should run around like an idiot every chance he gets?

http://tracking.si.com/2012/12/16/redskins-to-start-kirk-cousins-at-quarterback-against-cleveland/?section=si_latest
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Not to sound like a jerk, that's not my intent, but like I said just look at the diminishing yards on the passing stats, he's passed for less yards each game, which indicates the defenses are catching on to his habits, and how he reads the D. We are also averaging less rushing yards per game under Kap than Smith (leaving out the rushing stats in the Rams game due to the change in QB ingame), I believe that's probably connected with the calls at the line of scrimmage. He's not as good at reading the D to change the play as Smith is.
Kap: 142
Smith: 169

Are we winning? So far yes, but I am not liking the trend.

Gore wore down last year and perhaps Harbaugh wants to create alternatives to Gore so that the team is less dependent Now with Hunter out it may be even more important.
My point was we are performing less effectively under Kap. I'm confused by your response, lol.
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
My point was we are performing less effectively under Kap. I'm confused by your response, lol.

Well, I'm accepting that Harbaugh and Roman believe CK gives the team a better chance to win this year. I don't believe they would make the change for some future betterment. I disagree but am not so egotistical to think my knowledge greater than theirs.

So the ultimate goal would be to give CK enough games before the playoffs to become the force they believe he will be. I agree that Smith looked better, more consistent, than CK thus far but after a few games that is to be expected.

I suppose it's also possible that Smith will start in the playoffs or before but that is likely only due to injury. If you are correct and CK struggles and then plays poorly in the playoffs the coaches will really face some credibility issues...NLFN and others will pile on and all the good will Baalke and Harbaugh had will go down the drain...OK...not all but much!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Dec 15, 2012 at 10:48 PM ]
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Not to sound like a jerk, that's not my intent, but like I said just look at the diminishing yards on the passing stats, he's passed for less yards each game, which indicates the defenses are catching on to his habits, and how he reads the D. We are also averaging less rushing yards per game under Kap than Smith (leaving out the rushing stats in the Rams game due to the change in QB ingame), I believe that's probably connected with the calls at the line of scrimmage. He's not as good at reading the D to change the play as Smith is.
Kap: 142
Smith: 169

Are we winning? So far yes, but I am not liking the trend.


I agree. What happened to the "explosive" offense we were gonna see with Kaep starting? I just don't see it. Maybe it's the playcalling?
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Not to sound like a jerk, that's not my intent, but like I said just look at the diminishing yards on the passing stats, he's passed for less yards each game, which indicates the defenses are catching on to his habits, and how he reads the D. We are also averaging less rushing yards per game under Kap than Smith (leaving out the rushing stats in the Rams game due to the change in QB ingame), I believe that's probably connected with the calls at the line of scrimmage. He's not as good at reading the D to change the play as Smith is.
Kap: 142
Smith: 169

Are we winning? So far yes, but I am not liking the trend.


I agree. What happened to the "explosive" offense we were gonna see with Kaep starting? I just don't see it. Maybe it's the playcalling?

The problem is we are still trying to figure out exactly what we have. 4 games really isn't a whole lot to really push too much on a young QB. We're playing safe but eventually we are going to have to go balls to the wall. I think tomorrow will really show us a lot. I honestly have no clue how this offense is going to perform tomorrow. Will we continue to be conservative? Will we start trying new things?

I just don't know? Excited to find out though.