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Growing Pessimism

  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,051
Originally posted by pdizo916:
you know that we're one win away from gaining that second seed in the nfc, right?


Yes, baby! The #2 seed will be ours.
Originally posted by mayo49:
Yes, baby! The #2 seed will be ours.

conversely, we're one loss away from falling behind green bay for the 4th best record in the nfc....
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,051
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Yes, baby! The #2 seed will be ours.

conversely, we're one loss away from falling behind green bay for the 4th best record in the nfc....

Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Yes, baby! The #2 seed will be ours.

conversely, we're one loss away from falling behind green bay for the 4th best record in the nfc....


what does your tingly penis say about this game?
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,051
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Yes, baby! The #2 seed will be ours.

conversely, we're one loss away from falling behind green bay for the 4th best record in the nfc....


what does your tingly penis say about this game?


It says, it'll be a tough game defensively with the Niners pulling away for a 24-12 win.
Originally posted by mayo49:
It says, it'll be a tough game defensively with the Niners pulling away for a 24-12 win.

lol @ 12. Four field goals.
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Yes, baby! The #2 seed will be ours.

conversely, we're one loss away from falling behind green bay for the 4th best record in the nfc....
This post sums it up... They are either amazing or average, depends on the Game. If we are going to be elite then we need to have better schemes from the coaches. I think since the team is evolving we do look past some games and end up losing, other than the Giants of course.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 27,055
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
you know that we're one win away from gaining that second seed in the nfc, right?


Yes, baby! The #2 seed will be ours.
lol. we tie the rams and people are blathering about a two seed. if the coaches have not been able to address our problem areas more than halfway through the season what makes you think they are going to get better now. i think we will just continue to tread water, hope to win the division but more likely we will get a wild card spot. Yes i have based this upon what i have seen from the entire body of work this year. we have played like s**t against decent to good teams and aside from the cardinals, that is all that remains on the scedule along with two elite teams in the bears and pats. we have the saints and rams in a dome and both have the potential to turn out just like the vikings game. if you think the dolphins will be easy you are fooling yourself
Nice post. The Niners are still a top 5 team in the NFL and have every opportunity to be a Super Bowl team. It's just nerves for all the pessimists in the Zone..............of which there are plenty.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 27,055
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Nice post. The Niners are still a top 5 team in the NFL and have every opportunity to be a Super Bowl team. It's just nerves for all the pessimists in the Zone..............of which there are plenty.
realists who are not homers so bad they can not see the forest through the trees
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brother, you can steal it and then copyright it! I'm a team-guy!

Good question. I genuinely think we have drafted and brought in good character team players. They know we can win like this and some games Moss will be double covered all game and others it will be VD or a team will stack up to stop Gore. We have a very selfless team and they are tight. Against the Jets, remember, we ran for 23,000 yards. I'm sure Gore/Hunter and the OL had a field day. And against the Bills, we showed some of our true capabilities/explosiveness in the passing game .

I guess my point is, we finally have all the talent to make a serious run (on paper) and be even more balanced and diverse. And these players have worked VERY hard all off season to make a difference and put themselves in the best position to succeed. But I think that bubbling undertone of dissent is brewing more and more the longer proven playmakers don't get the ball (e.g. VD, Moss, Manningham, Hunter, etc.). And player will take one for the team but eventually they want to be used for more...naturally.

We see it with Jacobs already and understandably so, but to keep perspective, we've barely used Hunter the past few games as well. In fact, he only got 3 carries and 1 pass against the Rams and this is while Gore is "injured."

But, at the end of the day, this is just speculation on my part and this is a very selfless team willing to do all the dirty work so others can succeed and that is exactly what you need from a winning team. Moss and VD will continue to take doubles so Crabtree can excel, Alex will adhere to the game plan so Gore/OL can do their thing and J.Smith will keep racking up invisible stats so A.Smith can get his pro bowl votes. Team game!

But to take it to the next level...a championship level; I think this coaching staff is going to have to learn how to use all the weapons we have, use them correctly and certainly use them MORE than they have so far over the past 9 games IMHO.


I think you make some very good points here. Just speculating, but I believe Jim's philosophy is that he wants all these offensive weapons to use at his disposal IF he needs to and not because he HAS to. He wants other teams to have to gameplan for ALL those guys, but in fact, has his own gameplan on a team by team basis. Every week is going to be different in approach. Some days they'll air it out more, and most days they won't. It's become frustrating but I believe this is how the coaches are scheming.

You would think they'd let Alex throw for 300yd/game and get more players involved, get higher scores, and let the D pin their ears back with a good lead, but I keep hearing him say "we need to start ahead" every week, so I keep thinking to myself, is he just trying to play keep away and field position all game in order to win at the cost of not using all these weapons???? The problem is, as most have stated here, our ST performance has dropped off the most of our units, so Jim's playing with fire now. He also doesn't want to conform to being a "passing" team since we have a great run game. I'm just wondering if he has any alternate or contingency plans for when things don't work for us, whether on O or D. We got down 14-0 against the Rams and you could see the HUGE frustrations on his face on the sidelines because we had to get away from our gameplan.

Bottom line, is he confident enough that his players will fully execute when the gameplan doesn't go as expected (MIN/NYG/STL)? Also, are the players confident enough that Jim will give them the chance to try a little more RISK on both O (more passing?) and D (more blitzing?) in these scenarios?

We are a very good team with lots of potential to make a deep playoff run, but my confidence is slowing getting less and less with the INCONSISTENCY that's been happening in 2012 vs 2011. That's all I have to go on with this coaching staff over 27 total games coached, so it's hard to think otherwise. I truly believe some of the gameplans and schemes are holding the talent back this year.
Originally posted by Beezy33:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brother, you can steal it and then copyright it! I'm a team-guy!

Good question. I genuinely think we have drafted and brought in good character team players. They know we can win like this and some games Moss will be double covered all game and others it will be VD or a team will stack up to stop Gore. We have a very selfless team and they are tight. Against the Jets, remember, we ran for 23,000 yards. I'm sure Gore/Hunter and the OL had a field day. And against the Bills, we showed some of our true capabilities/explosiveness in the passing game .

I guess my point is, we finally have all the talent to make a serious run (on paper) and be even more balanced and diverse. And these players have worked VERY hard all off season to make a difference and put themselves in the best position to succeed. But I think that bubbling undertone of dissent is brewing more and more the longer proven playmakers don't get the ball (e.g. VD, Moss, Manningham, Hunter, etc.). And player will take one for the team but eventually they want to be used for more...naturally.

We see it with Jacobs already and understandably so, but to keep perspective, we've barely used Hunter the past few games as well. In fact, he only got 3 carries and 1 pass against the Rams and this is while Gore is "injured."

But, at the end of the day, this is just speculation on my part and this is a very selfless team willing to do all the dirty work so others can succeed and that is exactly what you need from a winning team. Moss and VD will continue to take doubles so Crabtree can excel, Alex will adhere to the game plan so Gore/OL can do their thing and J.Smith will keep racking up invisible stats so A.Smith can get his pro bowl votes. Team game!

But to take it to the next level...a championship level; I think this coaching staff is going to have to learn how to use all the weapons we have, use them correctly and certainly use them MORE than they have so far over the past 9 games IMHO.


I think you make some very good points here. Just speculating, but I believe Jim's philosophy is that he wants all these offensive weapons to use at his disposal IF he needs to and not because he HAS to. He wants other teams to have to gameplan for ALL those guys, but in fact, has his own gameplan on a team by team basis. Every week is going to be different in approach. Some days they'll air it out more, and most days they won't. It's become frustrating but I believe this is how the coaches are scheming.

You would think they'd let Alex throw for 300yd/game and get more players involved, get higher scores, and let the D pin their ears back with a good lead, but I keep hearing him say "we need to start ahead" every week, so I keep thinking to myself, is he just trying to play keep away and field position all game in order to win at the cost of not using all these weapons???? The problem is, as most have stated here, our ST performance has dropped off the most of our units, so Jim's playing with fire now. He also doesn't want to conform to being a "passing" team since we have a great run game. I'm just wondering if he has any alternate or contingency plans for when things don't work for us, whether on O or D. We got down 14-0 against the Rams and you could see the HUGE frustrations on his face on the sidelines because we had to get away from our gameplan.

Bottom line, is he confident enough that his players will fully execute when the gameplan doesn't go as expected (MIN/NYG/STL)? Also, are the players confident enough that Jim will give them the chance to try a little more RISK on both O (more passing?) and D (more blitzing?) in these scenarios?

We are a very good team with lots of potential to make a deep playoff run, but my confidence is slowing getting less and less with the INCONSISTENCY that's been happening in 2012 vs 2011. That's all I have to go on with this coaching staff over 27 total games coached, so it's hard to think otherwise. I truly believe some of the gameplans and schemes are holding the talent back this year.


Good Post....I think your right. When we get down and have to deviate from our bread and butter gameplan things don't go well. If he took more chances down field and developed a stronger passing game when he had the opportunity to do so it would bear dividends. What's wrong with running up the score by passing when they have a lead and are clearly better on defense than the opponents offense. We have to build a passing capacity so that when we really need it, it is there.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Nice post. The Niners are still a top 5 team in the NFL and have every opportunity to be a Super Bowl team. It's just nerves for all the pessimists in the Zone..............of which there are plenty.
realists who are not homers so bad they can not see the forest through the trees

this team has more deficiencies than we'd want to believe, but we are still a superbowl contender. and yes, we're just as likely to miss the playoffs.
Originally posted by Beezy33:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brother, you can steal it and then copyright it! I'm a team-guy!

Good question. I genuinely think we have drafted and brought in good character team players. They know we can win like this and some games Moss will be double covered all game and others it will be VD or a team will stack up to stop Gore. We have a very selfless team and they are tight. Against the Jets, remember, we ran for 23,000 yards. I'm sure Gore/Hunter and the OL had a field day. And against the Bills, we showed some of our true capabilities/explosiveness in the passing game .

I guess my point is, we finally have all the talent to make a serious run (on paper) and be even more balanced and diverse. And these players have worked VERY hard all off season to make a difference and put themselves in the best position to succeed. But I think that bubbling undertone of dissent is brewing more and more the longer proven playmakers don't get the ball (e.g. VD, Moss, Manningham, Hunter, etc.). And player will take one for the team but eventually they want to be used for more...naturally.

We see it with Jacobs already and understandably so, but to keep perspective, we've barely used Hunter the past few games as well. In fact, he only got 3 carries and 1 pass against the Rams and this is while Gore is "injured."

But, at the end of the day, this is just speculation on my part and this is a very selfless team willing to do all the dirty work so others can succeed and that is exactly what you need from a winning team. Moss and VD will continue to take doubles so Crabtree can excel, Alex will adhere to the game plan so Gore/OL can do their thing and J.Smith will keep racking up invisible stats so A.Smith can get his pro bowl votes. Team game!

But to take it to the next level...a championship level; I think this coaching staff is going to have to learn how to use all the weapons we have, use them correctly and certainly use them MORE than they have so far over the past 9 games IMHO.


I think you make some very good points here. Just speculating, but I believe Jim's philosophy is that he wants all these offensive weapons to use at his disposal IF he needs to and not because he HAS to. He wants other teams to have to gameplan for ALL those guys, but in fact, has his own gameplan on a team by team basis. Every week is going to be different in approach. Some days they'll air it out more, and most days they won't. It's become frustrating but I believe this is how the coaches are scheming.

You would think they'd let Alex throw for 300yd/game and get more players involved, get higher scores, and let the D pin their ears back with a good lead, but I keep hearing him say "we need to start ahead" every week, so I keep thinking to myself, is he just trying to play keep away and field position all game in order to win at the cost of not using all these weapons???? The problem is, as most have stated here, our ST performance has dropped off the most of our units, so Jim's playing with fire now. He also doesn't want to conform to being a "passing" team since we have a great run game. I'm just wondering if he has any alternate or contingency plans for when things don't work for us, whether on O or D. We got down 14-0 against the Rams and you could see the HUGE frustrations on his face on the sidelines because we had to get away from our gameplan.

Bottom line, is he confident enough that his players will fully execute when the gameplan doesn't go as expected (MIN/NYG/STL)? Also, are the players confident enough that Jim will give them the chance to try a little more RISK on both O (more passing?) and D (more blitzing?) in these scenarios?

We are a very good team with lots of potential to make a deep playoff run, but my confidence is slowing getting less and less with the INCONSISTENCY that's been happening in 2012 vs 2011. That's all I have to go on with this coaching staff over 27 total games coached, so it's hard to think otherwise. I truly believe some of the gameplans and schemes are holding the talent back this year.

Very nice post and well thought out. You pretty much summed it up too with the last sentence. Naturally, this is my belief as well. We know that explosive talent is there (some of it is still sitting on the bench) and we've seen it come together (GB, Detroit, Buffalo, etc.) at times but we've seen inconsistencies too. Every season has it's ups and downs but like you noted, we are seeing clear trends when we are forced to go away from the original game plan and to me, THAT'S on the coordinators. That's a clear pin point assertion to the true effectiveness of a coordinator is his ability to adjust on the fly if needed and esp. at half time and the second halves of games when he's got a clear read on the opposition. And why wouldn't the game plan work? Is this an indication he hasn't identified proper weaknesses in the opposition...or continued to exploit them like the Rams did with us? Like the Giants did with us? Like the Vikings did with us?

Naturally, like in Stanford, our offensive philosophy is very very simple: Come out passing predominately, mix in the some runs, build up a lead, control the clock with the running game, don't turn the ball over and finish with a strong defensive and special teams performance and a very efficient passing game. Basically, play tournament ball.

But as we creep towards 1.75 years into the WCO and if we continue to show an inability to adjust or adapt to the culture of the game (or even dictate it), will the players become restless? I think we all have some valuable concerns here even while we remain cautiously optimistic!
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 16, 2012 at 12:01 PM ]
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by Beezy33:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Brother, you can steal it and then copyright it! I'm a team-guy!

Good question. I genuinely think we have drafted and brought in good character team players. They know we can win like this and some games Moss will be double covered all game and others it will be VD or a team will stack up to stop Gore. We have a very selfless team and they are tight. Against the Jets, remember, we ran for 23,000 yards. I'm sure Gore/Hunter and the OL had a field day. And against the Bills, we showed some of our true capabilities/explosiveness in the passing game .

I guess my point is, we finally have all the talent to make a serious run (on paper) and be even more balanced and diverse. And these players have worked VERY hard all off season to make a difference and put themselves in the best position to succeed. But I think that bubbling undertone of dissent is brewing more and more the longer proven playmakers don't get the ball (e.g. VD, Moss, Manningham, Hunter, etc.). And player will take one for the team but eventually they want to be used for more...naturally.

We see it with Jacobs already and understandably so, but to keep perspective, we've barely used Hunter the past few games as well. In fact, he only got 3 carries and 1 pass against the Rams and this is while Gore is "injured."

But, at the end of the day, this is just speculation on my part and this is a very selfless team willing to do all the dirty work so others can succeed and that is exactly what you need from a winning team. Moss and VD will continue to take doubles so Crabtree can excel, Alex will adhere to the game plan so Gore/OL can do their thing and J.Smith will keep racking up invisible stats so A.Smith can get his pro bowl votes. Team game!

But to take it to the next level...a championship level; I think this coaching staff is going to have to learn how to use all the weapons we have, use them correctly and certainly use them MORE than they have so far over the past 9 games IMHO.


I think you make some very good points here. Just speculating, but I believe Jim's philosophy is that he wants all these offensive weapons to use at his disposal IF he needs to and not because he HAS to. He wants other teams to have to gameplan for ALL those guys, but in fact, has his own gameplan on a team by team basis. Every week is going to be different in approach. Some days they'll air it out more, and most days they won't. It's become frustrating but I believe this is how the coaches are scheming.

You would think they'd let Alex throw for 300yd/game and get more players involved, get higher scores, and let the D pin their ears back with a good lead, but I keep hearing him say "we need to start ahead" every week, so I keep thinking to myself, is he just trying to play keep away and field position all game in order to win at the cost of not using all these weapons???? The problem is, as most have stated here, our ST performance has dropped off the most of our units, so Jim's playing with fire now. He also doesn't want to conform to being a "passing" team since we have a great run game. I'm just wondering if he has any alternate or contingency plans for when things don't work for us, whether on O or D. We got down 14-0 against the Rams and you could see the HUGE frustrations on his face on the sidelines because we had to get away from our gameplan.

Bottom line, is he confident enough that his players will fully execute when the gameplan doesn't go as expected (MIN/NYG/STL)? Also, are the players confident enough that Jim will give them the chance to try a little more RISK on both O (more passing?) and D (more blitzing?) in these scenarios?

We are a very good team with lots of potential to make a deep playoff run, but my confidence is slowing getting less and less with the INCONSISTENCY that's been happening in 2012 vs 2011. That's all I have to go on with this coaching staff over 27 total games coached, so it's hard to think otherwise. I truly believe some of the gameplans and schemes are holding the talent back this year.


Good Post....I think your right. When we get down and have to deviate from our bread and butter gameplan things don't go well. If he took more chances down field and developed a stronger passing game when he had the opportunity to do so it would bear dividends. What's wrong with running up the score by passing when they have a lead and are clearly better on defense than the opponents offense. We have to build a passing capacity so that when we really need it, it is there.


Well said. It just feels this way when my eyes watch every game. Why not run up the score? Isn't that the point, to make sure you get the win in a tough NFL? Play to the strengths of the roster, and fit those into schemes/gameplans. Just seems like this coaching staff is really focused on only one/two ways to do things on both sides of the ball, regardless of talent, and that's going to get us in trouble at some point.

Is Jim ultimately skird that Alex is gonna turn the ball over THAT much if he takes more chances, and that our defense won't be able to buckle down when it needs to? Is he covering up holes??????