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Myth of the "300 yd passer" ...to be a "great" QB

what i find funny is that two of the most elite quarterbacks in the league wanted to be 49ers. rodgers and brady wanted to wear red and gold.
Brady would have been despicably good with the 9ers....he wanted to be in his bones and to this day his heart is a 9er!!!!!!!!

That said, he couldn't have done what Joe did in that time, in that era, facing what Joe did.

No one could.

God I miss Joe.

I met Joe one day at a book shop, I was in front of him but I let him go first cuz he was nervous. He dropped his frikin change three times lol. Looked at me and laughed, I told him how he kept my mother with cancer alive, she would leap out of her bed thrusting her fist when he threw those magical throws.

He just shook my hand with no words but a deep look in his eye to mine.

Joe.
The thing about putting up great numbers for a QB is this......

if Alex Smith wins a Superbowl vis as vis Trent Dilfer style (we win cause of great special teams and defense), Alex would never get the recognition like all other greats did or be put in the same league / sentence with the elites (Brady, Farve, Montana, Young, Elway, Mannings, Warners, Aikman).

Because right now, Alex Smith's status is pretty much a Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson type QB. Just good enough to win if you have a special or top defense.

Even though Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer have won superbowls, usually do they get much recognition (sad but true).
Originally posted by WeAreLegend:
Brady would have been despicably good with the 9ers....he wanted to be in his bones and to this day his heart is a 9er!!!!!!!!

That said, he couldn't have done what Joe did in that time, in that era, facing what Joe did.

No one could.

God I miss Joe.

I met Joe one day at a book shop, I was in front of him but I let him go first cuz he was nervous. He dropped his frikin change three times lol. Looked at me and laughed, I told him how he kept my mother with cancer alive, she would leap out of her bed thrusting her fist when he threw those magical throws.

He just shook my hand with no words but a deep look in his eye to mine.

Joe.

Joe is the Man!
Originally posted by ginseng1000:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Nope. The team with the better defense as opposed to the better offense in the superbowl wins just as frequently, if not more frequently.

proof proof proof

I need to see some past examples.

Well, there's this breakdown of the period from 96-2007 on nfl.com... http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d80e2f758&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Which shows how 9 out of 12 of those years, the defense of the winning team ranked top 10, while only 6 of those same teams had an offense ranked top 10.

And then there's this to consider: http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/46/categorystats?conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&tabSeq=0&Submit=Find

Out of 46 superbowls, only 13 of the quarterbacks playing in those superbowls eclipsed the 300 yard mark. That's out of 92 starting QBs. (19, but multiple appearances with 300 yard games.)

Here's something else to consider. Out of the 92 teams, 50 of them were held to 250 passing yards or less. http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conf=ALL&role=OPP

36 teams have been held to 99 rushing yards or less. http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conf=ALL&role=OPP


But most importantly, and here is the definitive proof you need, before 2009,
Teams with the better defensive rank were 28-14 in the Super Bowl.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2009-01-27-important-stat_N.htm
We have a #1 D, a great STs(altho with some lapses this yr), and a fantastic running game that any team in the NFL would want. That doesn't leave much room for 300 yrd passing games. Granted if every other completion went for a 50+ yd TD, it would work. But there are a lot of excellent D's out there today, NYG, GB. SEA, Chi, MN, Detroit, Atlanta, etc. It seems that there are more great Ds out there today than I remember in other yrs, tho that is very subjective.

With a great coach, great D, great STs, great running game, this team is doing what our HC wants to win games, and that does not include going deep on every other pass. Also, our OL is great at run Blocking, but against tough Ds, falls short on pass protection. Hence against the NYG, anything except a short 1 stepper ,maybe a quick 3 stepper, was about all we could complete. Anything longer than a quick hitter, didn't work well against Giants fierce pass rush and DBs, LBs, and CBs, all skilled in the art of holding receivers on virtually every play. Coach should never have done anything but throw quick hitters, and he SHOULD have challenged the refs, early and often about D holding. Nobody, Brees, Brady, Peyton was going to get a long pass or intermediate pass off against those guys. And alex certainly couldn't. But quick hitters, especially before the D could hold the receivers, would have been the ticket, and probably ended up with a different story at game's end. But Coach opted for pass plays that took too long to develop, and the DBs of NY were holding by that time. So 300 yds in a game like that couldn't happen.

Actually, against any team with a fierce pass rush...or the BIG RUSH ...throwing anything but quick hitters is a loser of a game plan. Our OL is not adept at keeping top flite passrushers away from alex long enough for anything other than a quick hitter. Hence, don't be looking for 300 yd games from him. Against a loser like Chiefs, Raiders, Cleveland, Cincy, Miami....hey, maybe a chance for a 300 yd game there. But so many Ds have become so good, that with our great run blocking team we are not going to even come close to a 300 yd passing game. And with frank, hunter, et al, why would we even want one.

There's a saying, that you "go to the dance with the one who brung you " ....Darrell Royal...and it sure applies to this team. We are a running team, which has quick short pass capability and occ. mid range pass ability. Against weaker teams then we can just open it up. But so many teams have the BIG RUSH today that quick hitters are about all we can expect, because our OL cannot keep out Jean Pierre, Tuck, Osi et al, except for a brief moment. Added to that, our WRs and TE have a very low RAC, or so it seems, so our 300 yd passing games are going to be exactly what you see...few and infrequent. Also, we don't need them most times....because of our devastating Run game. If we didn't have a running game, our HC would be calling vastly different game plans. But in that case, we would NOT be SB material...and everyone knows we are in the running this yr, and Vegas agrees. So forget the 300 yd thing, as it really does nothing but shows off a QBs stats. Real question is , "How many wins does he have, not how many 300 yd games."
Well Alex smith has 3 300 yard games in 8 years and 0 400 yard games in his whole career. I remember him trying to talk smack about Cam Newton saying he puts up good stats cus they were always behind. What about all the years we were playing from behind?? Where are your stats Mr. Smith?? Where were your 300 yard games?
Originally posted by harbaughisGOD:
Well Alex smith has 3 300 yard games in 8 years and 0 400 yard games in his whole career. I remember him trying to talk smack about Cam Newton saying he puts up good stats cus they were always behind. What about all the years we were playing from behind?? Where are your stats Mr. Smith?? Where were your 300 yard games?

That's been talked about and it's either everyone else's fault or that's just not how Alex plays the game.

I think most of us care less about the 300 yard stat. I care more about whether or not a team fears our QB and if you ask me, as a fan, I am not afraid when the 49ers play QB's like the ones listed here. Why? Because if our coaches plan properly to mess up their coach's plans, then these QB's are most likely not to overcome outside the scope of the play. They won't make great things happen. To me, Alex is in this list.

Ponder
Gabbert
Ftizpatrick
Tannehill
Sanchez
Flacco
Dalton
Weeden
Schaub
Hasselbeck
Cassell
Palmer
Rivers
Stafford
Skelton
Bradford
Wilson
Cutler (far too easy to rattle)


NOW, these are the QB's that keep coaches awake late at night because they can make great plays happen outside the scope if their original play or they are masters at adjusting on their own vs the opposing coach's strategy. These are guys that you NEVER want to be in a close game at the end with because you know they will find a way to overcome your defense, no matter how dominant it is more often than not.

Newton
Luck
Freeman
Brees
Rodgers
RG III
Vick
Manning Bros
Romo
Brady
Roethlisberger
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by harbaughisGOD:
Well Alex smith has 3 300 yard games in 8 years and 0 400 yard games in his whole career. I remember him trying to talk smack about Cam Newton saying he puts up good stats cus they were always behind. What about all the years we were playing from behind?? Where are your stats Mr. Smith?? Where were your 300 yard games?

That's been talked about and it's either everyone else's fault or that's just not how Alex plays the game.

I think most of us care less about the 300 yard stat. I care more about whether or not a team fears our QB and if you ask me, as a fan, I am not afraid when the 49ers play QB's like the ones listed here. Why? Because if our coaches plan properly to mess up their coach's plans, then these QB's are most likely not to overcome outside the scope of the play. They won't make great things happen. To me, Alex is in this list.

Ponder
Gabbert
Ftizpatrick
Tannehill
Sanchez
Flacco
Dalton
Weeden
Schaub
Hasselbeck
Cassell
Palmer
Rivers
Stafford
Skelton
Bradford
Wilson
Cutler (far too easy to rattle)


NOW, these are the QB's that keep coaches awake late at night because they can make great plays happen outside the scope if their original play or they are masters at adjusting on their own vs the opposing coach's strategy. These are guys that you NEVER want to be in a close game at the end with because you know they will find a way to overcome your defense, no matter how dominant it is more often than not.

Newton
Luck
Freeman
Brees
Rodgers
RG III
Vick
Manning Bros
Romo
Brady
Roethlisberger

All under contract, iirc.
Originally posted by English:
All under contract, iirc.

Yes but this is how I personally classify them. Smith is our guy, but if I were a team playing against him, I would hope more that my coach is smarter than Smith's coach because it is safe to say that Smith is not going to overcome a defense playing discipline ball and make huge plays by breaking a defense down. He will definitely make a defensive coordinator pay for slipping on matchups or something.

As for the 300 yard game, I don't curr except that I want to see the 49ers dominate in every aspect, including stats like they did in the mid 80's to mid 90's.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by English:
All under contract, iirc.

Yes but this is how I personally classify them. Smith is our guy, but if I were a team playing against him, I would hope more that my coach is smarter than Smith's coach because it is safe to say that Smith is not going to overcome a defense playing discipline ball and make huge plays by breaking a defense down. He will definitely make a defensive coordinator pay for slipping on matchups or something.

As for the 300 yard game, I don't curr except that I want to see the 49ers dominate in every aspect, including stats like they did in the mid 80's to mid 90's.

Agreed, for the most part. The legacy of the salary cap.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by English:
All under contract, iirc.

Yes but this is how I personally classify them. Smith is our guy, but if I were a team playing against him, I would hope more that my coach is smarter than Smith's coach because it is safe to say that Smith is not going to overcome a defense playing discipline ball and make huge plays by breaking a defense down. He will definitely make a defensive coordinator pay for slipping on matchups or something.

As for the 300 yard game, I don't curr except that I want to see the 49ers dominate in every aspect, including stats like they did in the mid 80's to mid 90's.

Agreed, for the most part. The legacy of the salary cap.

Yes, it is a give and take. If we want to dominate in one category, we will need to give in another due to not being able to keep all players that make all phases great.
  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,855
The 49ers run too much to have that many 300 yard games. 200 passing yards is a successful day for the offense.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by harbaughisGOD:
Well Alex smith has 3 300 yard games in 8 years and 0 400 yard games in his whole career. I remember him trying to talk smack about Cam Newton saying he puts up good stats cus they were always behind. What about all the years we were playing from behind?? Where are your stats Mr. Smith?? Where were your 300 yard games?

That's been talked about and it's either everyone else's fault or that's just not how Alex plays the game.

I think most of us care less about the 300 yard stat. I care more about whether or not a team fears our QB and if you ask me, as a fan, I am not afraid when the 49ers play QB's like the ones listed here. Why? Because if our coaches plan properly to mess up their coach's plans, then these QB's are most likely not to overcome outside the scope of the play. They won't make great things happen. To me, Alex is in this list.

Ponder
Gabbert
Ftizpatrick
Tannehill
Sanchez
Flacco
Dalton
Weeden
Schaub
Hasselbeck
Cassell
Palmer
Rivers
Stafford
Skelton
Bradford
Wilson
Cutler (far too easy to rattle)


NOW, these are the QB's that keep coaches awake late at night because they can make great plays happen outside the scope if their original play or they are masters at adjusting on their own vs the opposing coach's strategy. These are guys that you NEVER want to be in a close game at the end with because you know they will find a way to overcome your defense, no matter how dominant it is more often than not.

Newton
Luck
Freeman
Brees
Rodgers
RG III
Vick
Manning Bros
Romo
Brady
Roethlisberger

Cutler is too easy to rattle and Cam Newton is not? Surely you can't be serious about Josh Freeman on your "elite" list or even Michael Vick. I wouldn't throw around the word "master" to describe Newton, Freeman or Vick. And the jury is still out on RG3 and Luck. And we've seen Alex go way beyond the scope of the game and his coaching to win a game.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Winning doesn't necessarily mean you have a great qb or winning because of great qb play.

singletary is that you?