For WZ members that have been following football 35 + years

Originally posted by RichnSanRamon:
Smith is smart and tough in very same way as Griese and Starr, but much more athletic. He would have fit right in during the eta of QB's calling their own plays. But he would not have been on their level because he isnt as accurate. But he would have done quite well. He is the model for smart, conservative ball.

Statistically he has been more accurate in completion % but like its been said a billion times different eras of football.

Dugo, I happened to be sitting on the 20 yd line at Joe Robbie with my dad, when the 9ers got the ball. Obviously I couldn't hear what he said in the huddle, but we were so close it was easy to see Joe was in the zone, and that was when he was lethal. One thing you didn't mention was that after completing a pass to Jerry, he threw a beauty to the MLB...right in the numbers...and he dropped it. Didn't faze Joe as he worked the ball down the field. From what we could see while at our end of the field, Joe could have been on Pluto and he wouldn't have noticed. He was the greatest, way better than Bart Starr, my childhood hero.

Occasionally, Alex gets in the zone, last yrs Saints game, Giants game, and others. What he never had until the this yr is the same OC for 2 yrs in a row, and that OC is his QB coach, HC, and good friend. Alex's nightmares are behind him. His best days are to come. But, no matter how you slice it, with a great team around you, an OL that can block , a RB who can get 5.6/carry, and oh how I wish alex had the great WR(s) that Starr, Brady, Brees, Eli, Peyton all had. Right now I am hoping that crbtre finally can get his college mojo back, I'd love to see AJ on the field, and I really would like to see the game changer, La Michael split wide of alex and watch what happens after La Mic catches it.

Right now, I really like manningham, #84 doesn't seem to get a lot of playing time, and Vernon has been blanketed for the last several games(Coach H needs to work specifically on routes, picks, whatever to get vernon the ball). Once alex gets vernon, maybe crbtre, La Michael, hopefully AJ as top flite receivers...then ask me who he reminds me of. Until then , I can't compare him to anyone who had that one or two or three deadly receivers to throw to. Give him that, and see how he does. Until then, I can't really compare him to guys with the great receivers. Look at Archie Manning. Played for a dog team his entire career, no real outstanding receivers, not a great OL, and he lived and died as an "Aints" player. Alex WAS in that situation all thru noln and BM(bigmike's) tenure. Now alex has everything but the receivers. My hope is they are close. But crbs has to break out and not just make a spectacular catch and then disappear. Mario is playing at a level to be called a very fine WR. And vernon is doubled. Just hard to say right now, but maybe at end of yr it will be possible to rate alex with 2 or 3 top flite receivers. Two of them are not even dressed out yet...and I hope they get on the field, and soon.

Once the WRs come around, then ask the question, "Who does alex remind you of?"

I would like to thank all of those who were able to give some perspective on this subject. For those that think that i or anyone else were putting Alex Smith in that group of great/elite/HOF QBs, you totally missed the point. The fact is all of those guys were known for not putting up huge numbers, even in their era (compare Starr to guys like Unitas and Namath, Aikman to the Youngs, Marinos, Kellys, Simms to the Elways, Marinos, etc). However, although they weren't known for lighting it up with huge numbers, they still won. So I wanted insight from those who actually saw Bart Starr and Bob Griese play, and compare their skill set with Alex Smith's. Same thing commentators do all the time, until said player comes into his own and becomes his own name.

Now if you have something to actually contribute to the discussion, please do .

Why are people in this thread comparing Alex Smith to successful quarterbacks? Why?

You know who Alex Smith is? Alex Smith is Trent Dilfer. Alex Smith is Neil O'Donnell. Alex Smith is that mediocre, unproductive starter who hands it off and is just safe enough to not ruin everything for his defense.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Love your post Pillbusta and see very much the same things. I like the comment about chippyness as that is definitely something Smith is developing under Harbaugh that was missing.

Hard to compare athletes like this but I loved Griese and hated Starr...probably because Starr won all the time and my 9ers didn't! Griese was smart, mobile, good arm. He was rattled some in tight situations...but most QBs can be if you hit them often enough.

At this point I do not see Smith in a league with Star or Griese, but Simms and Aikman? Closer. Aikman could get a ball out fast and accurately, but was not nearly as mobile and he had a dominant line, RB, TE and WRs...so it's not a fair comparison.

Smith's arm is strong enough but not the kind to fire a rocket at the last second down the field. Watched Rodgers hit a forty yard pass running left, throwing back right, while falling back left...how the h*ll does he do that? So Smith has to develop a chemistry with his receivers and throw in rhythm or he will not succeed. Much like Griese and Montana. Guys like Rodgers can wait a bit longer to throw because the ball will get there faster...like Aikman.

Griese was one of my favorites because he could buy time and just seemed to be a complete QB. His attitude may be closer to Smith's than any of the other guys...smart, calm, not a rah rah guy.

Fran Tarkenton was another favorite...with his crazy scrambles to buy time. If he had a better line and perhaps a bit more patience...

Funny thing...all these guys had great coaches. Hmm...

Going off of what you said about Griese, Alex Smith seems to be athletic enough to buy more time, but it seems to me that he still takes too many sacks to be as mobile as he is. Maybe it's lack of pocket awareness? I've seen guys with less ability athletically that are better at avoiding the sack and getting the ball out. Hopefully we will see more as time goes on. It seems like they are still in the process of figuring out what kind of passing offense this team will have. It would help Smith could work with the same personnel for a few drives before doing all of the substituting.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I would like to thank all of those who were able to give some perspective on this subject. For those that think that i or anyone else were putting Alex Smith in that group of great/elite/HOF QBs, you totally missed the point. The fact is all of those guys were known for not putting up huge numbers, even in their era (compare Starr to guys like Unitas and Namath, Aikman to the Youngs, Marinos, Kellys, Simms to the Elways, Marinos, etc). However, although they weren't known for lighting it up with huge numbers, they still won. So I wanted insight from those who actually saw Bart Starr and Bob Griese play, and compare their skill set with Alex Smith's. Same thing commentators do all the time, until said player comes into his own and becomes his own name.

Now if you have something to actually contribute to the discussion, please do .

John Elway didn't put up big numbers.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Going off of what you said about Griese, Alex Smith seems to be athletic enough to buy more time, but it seems to me that he still takes too many sacks to be as mobile as he is. Maybe it's lack of pocket awareness? I've seen guys with less ability athletically that are better at avoiding the sack and getting the ball out. Hopefully we will see more as time goes on. It seems like they are still in the process of figuring out what kind of passing offense this team will have. It would help Smith could work with the same personnel for a few drives before doing all of the substituting.

It seems Smith is better this year at buying time and I believe it coincides with the Line being better. Last year Smith was often surrounded on all sides and had no where to run--escape. This year he seems to be able to scramble left or right fairly often. The line is keeping the D closer to the LOS rather than allowing penetration. If this continues the offense will make steady progress to where they need to be for a Super Bowl trophy.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by Born49R:

Originally posted by Faraz80:
I dont think Ive ever heard Alex Smith's name held in the same breath as Troy Aikman, Bart Starr, Phil Simms except for here in the webzone.

This is grasping at straws fellas. All of the aforementioned led dynasties and/or dynasty type teams. You base your judgment(s) on Alex based on one year's worth of play which led us to the NFCC, and now you think he can be compared to them. Im sorry, but anyone outside of Ninerland would laugh at this.

Even though I've watched football for over 40 years I have difficulty comparing Smith to past QB's as well. But I'm curious if you are older than 50 and therefore have the requirements to speak on the subject.

This is a bit of a copout to me. Of all the NFL qb through history of the league none of them that Smith is comparable in his type of play.... How about our very own Jim Harbaugh. Very similar to Smith when he was with the Bears.

UH, I did not say that none of the past QB's could be compared to Smith. I said "I have difficulty" because I actually don't remember how any of those QB's played and therefore do not have the ability or for that matter the interest in comparing past QB's to Smith. Although a diehard 49r fan and because I've watched a lot of football over the years it is all in the distant past and therefore for the most part has no meaning for me.
Now many here have better memorys than I for this, and are able to compare him to others.
Smith's play does remind me of Eli Mannings play before he won his first SB. Capable, but very inconsistent, capable of really good play but then a WTF moment way too often.

Put it this way. You put the name Alex Smith instead of Aikman, no way the Cowboys become a dynasty in the 90s. Everyone likes to give credit to Emmitt Smith and the vaunted Dallas defense for their success, but lets not forget that Aikman helped guys like Michael Irvin, Daryl Johnston, Jay Novacek and heck even Alvin Harper play like probowlers. Besides VD, whens the last time Alex made his receivers look "probowl" type ?

This isnt even a discussion folks.

how can some say Alex has high Football game time IQ?

when has he shown this superior Elite type IQ?

he seems to show low IQ out there..... Its 4th and 15....you don't get another down.....you are down by double digit points....you need a first down......throw it 5 yards to Vernon. 3rd and 10....we are still down by double digit points....you need a first down or get closer so we can go for it....Crabtree broke open and Alex is rolling to that same side. Alex decides to run out of bounds for zero gain.

reading a defense.....finding the open man quick enough to get TDs or Big plays or 1st downs.


oh wait, I know what some will say... "bu bu BUT KILL KILL LET IT ROLLOL".

OC- "Alex, if the safety is in the box stick with the pass play....if the safety is not in the box stick with the run play"

Alex- "......KILL KILL KILL..."

Gore gets 10 yards

OMG ALEX IS AN EXPERT IN THE OFFENSE!!!! Genius!

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by dugo:
SUPER BOWL XXIII..... Bengals ahead 16–13 with just over three minutes left on the clock. Following the kickoff, and a holding penalty, the 49ers took over on their 8-yard line with 3:08 left on the clock. Joe Montana began the final drive by stepping into the huddle and remarking to offensive tackle Harris Barton, during a television timeout, "HEY, there's John Candy", as he pointed to the stands on the other side of the field. "HIS CALM" demeanor reassured the 49ers, and he then engineered the greatest drive in Super Bowl history, as he drove the team 92 yards for the winning touchdown on a pass to John Taylor with only 34 seconds left....
I remember that game being in my late twenties and knowing I was watching not just a QB with skills but a moment in time that would make him a legend in the future...I'm not comparing Smith to Montana doesn't even come close and is a waste of time..or to any of the others listed on this post .but what I took from that super bowl was just how cool Joe cool really was and how IN COMMAND he was. Thats what I don't see or have seen in Smith consistently game in game out..He doesn't command the offense and be the leader his position dictates at times..he gets flustered, panics,and begins to force things way to easily. Then he begins to make mistakes and once his confidence is shaken we're usually done..(Giants game as an example).. That said He's not a bad QB ,he does piss the crap out of me sometimes but with this coaching staff I really think Smith can take us to the super bowl and win it,,,as long as the whole team plays up to its potential and its not a repeat of SB XXIII...

Joe Montana was IMO the greatest qb ever to play the game. To compare most other qb's to him is a fairly futile exercise.

For sure,, no way can you compare them and I did mention that you couldn't it would be a waste of time ..What I referred to was Montana's command as a QB as compared to Smith's and thats how I would gage any future QB..Young was a great QB but imo not even close to Montana But he still had such a great command of the offense. Garcia as well was a good QB not as good as Young but still had command of the offense With all 3 of those QB's you knew it was their offense they were the leader of it no confusion,,I do like Smith..just don't think he'll ever be the leader his position demands.."Game on the line put the team on his shoulders for the win type of QB..Hope he proves me wrong though...

Question, and I don't if this question is appropriate for this thread, but here it goes. Is a person's fanhood relative to their age? Like if two people are 49er fans, and person A is older than person B, so person A is more of a 49er fan than person B. That's the argument that my brother uses and it pisses me off because I know I'm more of a fan than that guy.

Originally posted by CaptainTabasco:
Question, and I don't if this question is appropriate for this thread, but here it goes. Is a person's fanhood relative to their age? Like if two people are 49er fans, and person A is older than person B, so person A is more of a 49er fan than person B. That's the argument that my brother uses and it pisses me off because I know I'm more of a fan than that guy.

Technically no one has been a fan for longer but that makes him no more of a fan then the other, the older fan may know more of the facts and way the games went due to actually seeing them and not just reading the stat sheet. The problem with some younger fans is that there so caught up in this fantasy football age all that is appealing to them is big stats big blow outs and unrealistic passing yards, what may be exciting in football to person A may not be enough for person B.

Originally posted by 1For13On3rdDown:
John Elway didn't put up big numbers.

Compared to what? For his career, he was in the top 5 five times and in the top 10 eleven times in passing yardage. I think only Marino was ahead of him in yards and TDs when he retired so how is that not big numbers? The only other guys in the span that did it as consistently are Warren Moon and maybe another I might be missing.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

Originally posted by 1For13On3rdDown:
John Elway didn't put up big numbers.

Compared to what? In the 1980s, he was in the top 5 times in his career and was in the top 10 eleven times. I think only Marino was ahead of him in yards and TDs when he retired so how is that not big numbers? The only other guys in the span that did it as consistently are Warren Moon and maybe another I might be missing.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm