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Out-coached!

The way I see it with the coaches decisions in the Giants game -- they thought the passing game is to level where they could lean on it early and often if the run game falters. And the attitude after the Bills game is that we are good enough to beat the Giants in myriad of different ways, running the ball, passing plays, playaction, misdirection plays, WildKaep plays. They basically took the similar game plan against the Bills to go into the Giants. I thought the same going into the game. But it blew up in their face big time.

In this sense we became predictable because the Giants is a more disciplined defense and seems more prepared on what was going to come their way. Especially in the passing game. All 3 of the Smith's INT, the defender peeled off on the first, the defender jumped on the slant on the second one on 3rd&6, and the third there were 4 defenders around Crabtree. This tells me we are predictable to the Giants. They need a change-up on the playaction pass plays and add more personnel and design changes to the other passing plays.

But it's really the offensive execution too. The first INT could resulted in a big play had Smith and the guys executed better.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Oct 16, 2012 at 8:19 AM ]
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If I've said it once, I've said it 1,000 times. We lose every time we make Alex the focal point of the offense. That's just the truth.
it worked against the bills cuz the bills are not the giants,, oops i just bashed smith! actually its true,, when we for some odd ball reason decide to go away from the run, we are predictable, we struggle , we get sacked and make mistakes. s**t i do not know if its alex , the coaches, the line, or maybe its just one of those games... i tell you though i do not like it when i see the same s**t twice this year and they better damn well get back on track thursday
To be fair, we also ran for 300 yards....yikes.
And to be fair as well, the passing game is the least developed part of our offense. Had Kap been the focal point, we would have likely been toast as well, so I respectfully disagree.

So you're argument is "because Kap couldnt' do it" you disagree with my point about Alex.... Also, how does pointing out that our "passing game is the least developed" support you position on Alex who happens to be the QB?

Kids these days....

If we have a less developed passing game than other elements of our offense, to depend on it means our chances of succeeding in it are less than say...depending on our running game. Get it? It's simply a play on numbers, meaning percentages. If you show imbalance in your offense in favor of a less developed element of it, the chances of succeeding are significantly reduced. How can you not understand such a simple concept?

My point about Kap is also a very simple concept to understand. Your saying that depending on Alex is a deathwish for us, so what is your solution? Depend on Kap, on Tolzien? Which falls back on my original argument about the percentage game. The less developed passing game struggled with Smith, it would struggled even greater with Kap or Tolz because they are even more behind than our starter.

Ideally we would have continued to do what we did on the first two drives without the Kap stuff.

I said RESPECTFULLY disagree. No need for the unnecessary personal swipe just because someone counters your nonsensical "analysis".
As bad as the loss was to the Giants. It hurts like hell to me. But I think this will help our passing game. Strange to say this after 3 INT and drives that went nowhere. I think we should be very close to get it done in the passing game. Sometimes you have to take a step back to get better and I think this is it. Interest to see how the guys respond against the Seahawks. The defense did well in responding after the Vikes loss.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
As bad as the loss was to the Giants. It hurts like hell to me. But I think this will help our passing game. Strange to say this after 3 INT and drives that went nowhere. I think we should be very close to get it done in the passing game. Sometimes you have to take a step back to get better and I think this is it. Interest to see how the guys respond against the Seahawks. The defense did well in responding after the Vikes loss.

Only problem is, the 49ers cannot beat teams with a good defense. The Vikings beat us because they have a good D and their QB was mobile. The Seahawks have the same type of team. If we lose this game, our season is gonna be looking pretty over.
  • mayo49
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Quit getting cute with all the Wild Kap plays.
Originally posted by mayo49:
Quit getting cute with all the Wild Kap plays.

I think there's something brewing, more then trying to be cute
  • mayo49
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  • Posts: 21,141
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Quit getting cute with all the Wild Kap plays.

I think there's something brewing, more then trying to be cute


Divulge.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
I think there's something brewing, more then trying to be cute

even if true, then they need to brew a LOT faster or a LOT slower. Even the extremists on either side recognize that this carousel is hurting both QBs.. and at the end of the day, I have to think we ALL just want WINS.
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Quit getting cute with all the Wild Kap plays.

I think there's something brewing, more then trying to be cute


Divulge.
no clue, JH knows the game plan..shoot he's probably the one who had Roman call those plays ?

something is up though
  • mayo49
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  • Posts: 21,141
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Quit getting cute with all the Wild Kap plays.

I think there's something brewing, more then trying to be cute


Divulge.
no clue, JH knows the game plan..shoot he's probably the one who had Roman call those plays ?

something is up though


I don't think it takes a scientist to figure out, that if Alex struggles and keeps having 3 int games, he's probably going to be seeing the bench.
[ Edited by mayo49 on Oct 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
It's one thing for JH to rev up Smith by telling him and the media, the Smith is an elite QB, it is entirely another when JH starts to believe it! Smith is an average, "serviceable" QB, the game plans need to reflect that. Smith is fine and can get us where we all want to go, but he needs to be in the system, and not the focus of the system.

Giving up on the running game even though it had been very successful was a MAJOR reason that the passing game failed. The 49ers and Alex Smith are one of the very best play action passing teams in the league. This is due largely to the strength of the running game which forces at least one safety to play close to the LOS to defend against the run.

At the beginning of the game yesterday, 49er receivers were finding space due to the fact the safeties were usually occupied elsewhere. Once Roman abandoned the run, the safeties were either sitting back waiting to poach or were double covering the receivers. Without any of the easy options Smith had at the beginning of the game he began forcing throws and the result was disaster.

This is not rocket science. I would bet/hope, that Harbaugh and Roman are sitting down at 4949 right now saying, "we REALLY screwed up."

You abandon the run when you need to score...because you are behind, we see other teams do this against us almost every week. When we game plan against our type, and it shows pretty clearly. Also I find it sad that we need to bring in our deep passing QB to get the ball downfield more than 30 yards in the air.

Had we stuck with the run, I believe we would have scored, certainly more than the 3 pts we did trying to pass! and at the time, there was sufficient opportunity to keep running, but we abandoned it early on. As it was, we averaged nearly 5 yds a carry between Frank and Kendall only to put it all on Alex's shoulders and we saw what happened there. Then, in the 4th quarter with only about 10 minutes left and 3 touchdowns behind, did we go no huddle? Call plays to advance down the field and stop the clock? Have any sense of urgency whatsoever? NO! Mystifying!!!! It's a good thiong I have a buzz cut, 'cause if my hair had been long enough to grab, I'd have pulled it out by the roots! The ride home was not fun.

I agree with your points about sticking with the running game.

I would add a comparison to what the Giants did: Even though the 49ers were stuffing the Giants' running game early, they stuck with it, even when behind at the beginning. As a result, when Eli used play action, it froze the safeties and opened up lanes for their receivers. Play action was effective for them all game long.

The 49ers, in contrast, gave up on the running game and consequently the play action was no longer an effective way to control the rushers and the safeties. It was comical on one of Kaepernick's "fakes" to Kendall Hunter, IIRC, who was five yards away from him when he faked it to him. Aikman and Buck both commented on how silly it was to fake when everybody in the park knew what was coming.

Oddly enough, a reversal of the NFC Championship game formula for both offenses. When the Giants abandoned the run last year, it allowed Aldon and the 9ers D-line to focus on 1 thing instead of many. You could argue that other teams don't seem to have as much trouble throwing a lot but the 49ers personnel just isn't designed for that. Our receivers aren't really the quick shifty types you need for the spread, nor do we have a legitimate deep threat (Moss is still in the "show me" group as far as i'm concerned). The question I have is how does this team counter what the Giants did because you know Seattle will be copying it.
[ Edited by bzborow1 on Oct 16, 2012 at 9:32 AM ]
bring back Jimmy Raye
Jeez guys...one game....over react much?

Yes the coaches were out coached.

Yes Alex had a bad game

Yes a large number of other players on the team had bad games

The Giants are a very good team. We didn't bring our A game, how could we expect to win?

Move on and hope the team doesn't make the same mistakes.
  • mayo49
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All good points, Jake. However, got to be realistic and at least brouch the possibility that Alex could be benched if he keeps throwing 3 picks a game.
[ Edited by mayo49 on Oct 16, 2012 at 9:57 AM ]
Originally posted by mayo49:
All good points, Jake. However, got to be realistic and at least brouch the possibility that Alex could be benched.

In favor of whom? Kaep looked pretty bad. Besides, Alex playing bad could partly be a function of bad coaching..that is, putting him in bad situations where he might force the ball. It's one game...you don't pull your starting QB for one bad game..you just don't. Now if it becomes a trend, then hell ya....as long as you have someone worth trying.