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Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by fropwns:
I like Roman. Apparently some of you have once again been sippin' from the cup of our past. NOBODY ON THIS STAFF IS CLOSE TO BILL WALSH. Have you guys forgot about the decade of defeat?

This. I like Roman too.


The "bring back the WCO offense" theme is an old man's argument. It brings nothing new to a discussion other than to make people reminisce of the past.

I like Roman too. My only gripe is that he has not shown an ability to adjust in-game strategy. He'll have a clear plan going into a game, but if it doesn't work, he does not scrap the original plan and go towards a different direction.

Myself and NCommand has mentioned the lack of WCO concepts, and you may be right, it may just be nostalgia that causes us to want the WCO. However, I truly believe that a WCO passing attack is the best type of offense there is, and it's not just because I'm a 49er fan and remember the glory days. It is a high percentage, effective way to control the clock using the passing game. If Harbaugh is about ball control, then the WCO can help achieve that. The passing attack right now is the opposite of ball control. It is an explosive passing game that picks up big chunks of yardage, effective in its own right.

Ideally, when Kap reaches his peak, whenever that may be, I'd like the offense to be adaptable and execute any type of passing attack. Use WCO passes to set up the vertical strike.

I see what you mean, and I agree. I just think that our running game is our bread and butter and it trumps the old WCO philosophy when it comes "ball control" type situations.

Just imagine if Bill Walsh had Frank Gore, I bet you the WCO would be completely different.
Originally posted by cciowa:
the shine has worn off his penis to me. people slobber all over him when he calls two good games in a row. he can never call three good games in a row because his ego or whatever it is gets in the way. i connect the lack of scoring touchdowns early vs the cards to romans playcalls. he then gets back on track with his long drive. I am sorry but that is the way he should be doing his job every time.who the f**k knows what he will do this sunday

Im not saying he's the best ever, or the best we've ever had, but he's without a doubt a good coordinator. You can call a perfect game but when you are lacking playmakers on the perimeter you become a very easy team to defend. He's also still learning his QB. Its a really tough job to succeed at and we are winning games and scoring a fair amount of points doing it.
[ Edited by Salty on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:10 AM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Exactly what I wrote, you can go read again if you like. The guy is imaginative when designing plays but he's not great at the whole strategy things or situational calls, you know, like deep in the redzone at the end of the Superbowl, or games against St Louis last season, Minnesota, Seattle and Indy this season, he struggles to find ways to expose a defense most of a time and does little to get them out of their preferred alignments, much like in the Seattle game. So no, he may have a great offensive mind as far as the running game is concerned but that hardly makes you a good play-caller.

I just thought your choice of words was a little weird. "natural play caller" doesn't really compute to me, because its like saying he has innate limitations. He's obviously a very smart guy, I think he can be as good as he wants to be. but I get what you are trying to get at.

I think you are underestimating how difficult it is to manipulate the way a defense aligns against you when you have so little talent on the perimeters. He doesn;'t have many options to work with

I think Roman has had a lot of really great playcalls, albeit less memorable than his bad ones, but the bottom line is when plays work, calls are great. When they don't the calls suck. There are a ton of factors that go into the success of a play. Greg Roman has only been an NFL coordinator for 2 years, with 2 different starting QBs and I think he's had a pretty good run so far, not perfect, but pretty good. Once we get Crabtree back in the mix this offense is going to look completely different.
[ Edited by Salty on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:17 AM ]
  • cciowa
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lot of excuses here. he has only been a oc for three years,, crabtree is not here, still learning his quarterback. we had crabtree last year and it did not stop him from going into the retard zone at crunch time on the biggest stage of them all. i really think the only reason james did not play last week was because roman simply has no clue what to do with him. james has proven to be a good kick returner and you have to think a screen pass to james would have more of a chance to do well as compared to one to miller or dixon.
I also like Roman! As far as play callers go I think we could do WAY worse. The only offenses that have better play callers are the ones with a QB that has the ability and more freedom to change things up or call their own plays. Kaps not there yet. In the meantime we're just fine with Roman calling the plays. (As long as he doesn't abandon the run that is)
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
its not about west coast offense. its about using the players you have.

why do we constantly use bruce miller in the tight end receiving portion when we have macdonald who is bigger and stronger and more explosive after the catch?

why do you run a screen with a short yardage back in dixon and not hunter?

how can't james even dress and get snaps?

these aren't crazy radical concepts

how with the two beast of tight ends we do have don't we have consistent sets for them in the red zone?

why is kyle williams still getting majority of the snaps at the 2wr spot when there hasn't been any point in his career indicating he deserves these snaps?

I genuinely do not have a single answer for any of this. Truly. I can't even TRY to justify these personnel sets.
Originally posted by cciowa:
lot of excuses here. he has only been a oc for three years,, crabtree is not here, still learning his quarterback. we had crabtree last year and it did not stop him from going into the retard zone at crunch time on the biggest stage of them all. i really think the only reason james did not play last week was because roman simply has no clue what to do with him. james has proven to be a good kick returner and you have to think a screen pass to james would have more of a chance to do well as compared to one to miller or dixon.


The problem with James is that its all he can do. Teams are all over the screen when James is in there. There's no element of surprise what so ever.
Originally posted by cciowa:
lot of excuses here. he has only been a oc for three years,, crabtree is not here, still learning his quarterback. we had crabtree last year and it did not stop him from going into the retard zone at crunch time on the biggest stage of them all. i really think the only reason james did not play last week was because roman simply has no clue what to do with him. james has proven to be a good kick returner and you have to think a screen pass to james would have more of a chance to do well as compared to one to miller or dixon.

If Crabtree hadn't been held on 4th down it would have been the greatest comeback in superbowl history. You are in a nutshell saying that unless an OC has won a superbowl he's worthless. It was also Roman's playcalling that got us within 5 yards of a superbowl title.

Maybe Lamichael James just can't remember the playbook. Or Maybe he's not very good. Or maybe he's in the doghouse because he's an a*****e.
[ Edited by Salty on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:24 AM ]
Originally posted by cciowa:
lot of excuses here. he has only been a oc for three years,, crabtree is not here, still learning his quarterback. we had crabtree last year and it did not stop him from going into the retard zone at crunch time on the biggest stage of them all. i really think the only reason james did not play last week was because roman simply has no clue what to do with him. james has proven to be a good kick returner and you have to think a screen pass to james would have more of a chance to do well as compared to one to miller or dixon.

Are we noticing a trend here with LMJ? Seems like his name is forever tied to the "screen play" because that's the ONLY play people have for LMJ. That should already tell everyone why he's not on the field.
Originally posted by cciowa:
lot of excuses here. he has only been a oc for three years,, crabtree is not here, still learning his quarterback. we had crabtree last year and it did not stop him from going into the retard zone at crunch time on the biggest stage of them all. i really think the only reason james did not play last week was because roman simply has no clue what to do with him. james has proven to be a good kick returner and you have to think a screen pass to james would have more of a chance to do well as compared to one to miller or dixon.

Grexcuses.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Are we noticing a trend here with LMJ? Seems like his name is forever tied to the "screen play" because that's the ONLY play people have for LMJ. That should already tell everyone why he's not on the field.

LOL, no, that's simply one play that he should be utilized in to start. A much more creative offensive mind would find a multitude of ways for James to be involved, put him on the Saints or Patriots and he becomes a big play threat as a running back and a receiver.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Are we noticing a trend here with LMJ? Seems like his name is forever tied to the "screen play" because that's the ONLY play people have for LMJ. That should already tell everyone why he's not on the field.

LOL, no, that's simply one play that he should be utilized in to start. A much more creative offensive mind would find a multitude of ways for James to be involved, put him on the Saints or Patriots and he becomes a big play threat as a running back and a receiver.

Put Hunter and Gore on the Patriots, and LMJ will be inactive. lol
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Grexcuses.

Hmmm maybe instead we should start saying "Man, that Greg Roman really grinds out a game old school, theres just something special about it". or "Greg Roman is nothing but class, he deserves to be the offensive coordinator for this team". or "If you compare Greg Romans offensive numbers to Bill Walshes numbers so far, they are pretty similar."

I like those better.
[ Edited by Salty on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:34 AM ]
Originally posted by Salty:
Hmmm maybe instead we should start saying "Man, that Greg Roman really grinds out a game old school, theres just something special about it". or "Greg Roman is nothing but class, he deserves to be the offensive coordinator for this team". or "If you compare Greg Romans offensive numbers to Bill Walshes numbers so far, they are pretty similar."

I like those better.

"If you compare Greg Roman's result in the Super Bowl to Bill...." oh wait.


And yeah, the two era's are completely alike of course, nothing has changed about the game in 30 years, nothing at all, all the rules are exactly the same. Absolutely nothing that would make it any easier for offense's to score points in bunches has transpired.


Bill Walsh apparently was completely dumbfounded by calling plays in the red zone too.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Oct 16, 2013 at 11:38 AM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
LOL, no, that's simply one play that he should be utilized in to start. A much more creative offensive mind would find a multitude of ways for James to be involved, put him on the Saints or Patriots and he becomes a big play threat as a running back and a receiver.

Sproles can block catch and runs great routes. Lamichael James has shown very little ability to do anything but run