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49er/Minn Coaches Film Pass Offense Analysis

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
If having a 3 yard cushion constitutes "breathing down his neck," fine. Theres really no point in trying to convince you. You have your mind made up. Crabtree was open. He was around 10 yards away from Alex with a few yards of space away from #33. Are you saying that Alex isnt capable of making this throw? Because the opportunity was clearly there.

No. Not saying anything... what I am asking is.. what source is showing you where # 33 is when Alex is rolling right? When I first begin to see the area Crabtree is, I see # 33 in front of and sticking like glue onto Crabtree. So at what point is Crabtree actually open?

( I'm perfectly fine with believing that Crabtree was open at some point... but what I'm saying is there is no visual proof of this from either my recording or the play shown in that linked thread... so where's the visual on Crabtree being open? )

Wide open and easy pass. What happened is he wanted Gore on the roll out. It was covered and Smith failed to make the next throw. This was a theme throughout this game. What is most disconcerning is these short passes are taken in agame we are losing badly.


Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
First Drive
1. Great kick return followed by 2 runs and a roll out. Davis had a designed outlet, but it looks like he let his block go to soon. Alex could have floated it over Gore and a defender to hit Crabtree in the end zone.

Thank you. Finally someone aside from me has posted about this. This is yet another easy TD that Alex missed against Minnesota. Everyone wants to b***h about the two runs after the big kick return, but fail to acknowledge that on third down, Crabtree was wide open in the endzone when Alex was rolling right.

This is a play that needs to be made 10 times out of 10.

Yup saw that as well. Dude needs to get quicker at making multiple reads instead of sticking to his first then bailing on the play if that gets covered

That's crazy. You don't float anything into the end zone except on a fade -- it will be picked off. A lot of defenders in small areas. The Vikings played that very well. Crabtree and Williams were covered. Gore in front for blocking. VD and Manningham trailing the play going to the right were covered also. The Vikings were disciplined. Staying in all the throwing lane underneath with at least one defender on each of our receivers

He could have zipped it to Crabs near the sideline or floated it over the top. You can do that in this situation towards the sideline.

Crabs was wide open. Gore was running a route and was totally covered off the bat. Manninghan was covered.

But the play is easy to Crabs, can't believe he missed it. This was a great play design as well. Poor execution.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:01 PM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
If having a 3 yard cushion constitutes "breathing down his neck," fine. Theres really no point in trying to convince you. You have your mind made up. Crabtree was open. He was around 10 yards away from Alex with a few yards of space away from #33. Are you saying that Alex isnt capable of making this throw? Because the opportunity was clearly there.

No. Not saying anything... what I am asking is.. what source is showing you where # 33 is when Alex is rolling right? When I first begin to see the area Crabtree is, I see # 33 in front of and sticking like glue onto Crabtree. So at what point is Crabtree actually open?

( I'm perfectly fine with believing that Crabtree was open at some point... but what I'm saying is there is no visual proof of this from either my recording or the play shown in that linked thread... so where's the visual on Crabtree being open? )

Wide open and easy pass. What happened is he wanted Gore on the roll out. It was covered and Smith failed to make the next throw. This was a theme throughout this game. What is most disconcerning is these short passes are taken in agame we are losing badly.



For Smith, that's blanket coverage. Earlier in that scramble, he could have stopped, side-stepped the persuing rusher and had open field on the backside against the grain.

But yeah, he had two open receivers on that. What did Smith do? The usual: keep running out of field and this time he tried that spin move but got planted into the ground. The dude just doesn't have quick or nimble feet. He's a straight-ahead runner.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
First Drive
1. Great kick return followed by 2 runs and a roll out. Davis had a designed outlet, but it looks like he let his block go to soon. Alex could have floated it over Gore and a defender to hit Crabtree in the end zone.

Thank you. Finally someone aside from me has posted about this. This is yet another easy TD that Alex missed against Minnesota. Everyone wants to b***h about the two runs after the big kick return, but fail to acknowledge that on third down, Crabtree was wide open in the endzone when Alex was rolling right.

This is a play that needs to be made 10 times out of 10.

Yup saw that as well. Dude needs to get quicker at making multiple reads instead of sticking to his first then bailing on the play if that gets covered

That's crazy. You don't float anything into the end zone except on a fade -- it will be picked off. A lot of defenders in small areas. The Vikings played that very well. Crabtree and Williams were covered. Gore in front for blocking. VD and Manningham trailing the play going to the right were covered also.

The only defender who could have made a play would have been the defender behind Gore. Gore was not a blocker, he was an outlet. Crabs was about 5 yards behind the guy with a decent enough angle where Smith could have drop it into.

Gore in front of Smith is a blocker incase Smith decides to get the 4 yards for the first down. Which Gore recognized. Blocked his guy but wasn't enough, because the defender got past Gore in time to stop Smith short. Makes no sense for Gore to be a receiver or outlet when he's 5 yards behind the first down marker, with Smith rolling out right behind him.

Sure it does. If a safety or CB is back playing Crabs and the LB is on Williams' shoulder, Gore is open in the flat to carry it in. I can see what you're saying though, and if Alex tucks it, yea, he needs to be a blocker.
[ Edited by mkmasn on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:04 PM ]
Right you are, Y2R... found it at the top of the forum... watched it closely.. and was just coming here to say that while I don't think of it as an easy pass... it is a pass you have to demand your QB to make. Crabtree was relatively open and Alex should be (and is) capable of making that throw on the move. He should have.
What kills me is Alex was actually looking into the endzone when he was rolling right. Its not like he tucked his head, ran, and couldnt see the open receiver. He SAW Crabtree open. He just chose not to throw it (reoccurring theme with Alex).
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Right you are, Y2R... found it at the top of the forum... watched it closely.. and was just coming here to say that while I don't think of it as an easy pass... it is a pass you have to demand your QB to make. Crabtree was relatively open and Alex should be (and is) capable of making that throw on the move. He should have.

I appreciate your willingness to be open minded about this. It was a play that should have and needed to have been made. Cant leave touchdowns on the field like this one if your D isnt playing to its usual standard.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
What kills me is Alex was actually looking into the endzone when he was rolling right. Its not like he tucked his head, ran, and couldnt see the open receiver. He SAW Crabtree open. He just chose not to throw it (reoccurring theme with Alex).

This. Great route design. Three levels of WRs breaking with the QB.

The third level was clear. I think Smith picks a place to throw pre-snap, and if that doesn't work out. Panics.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Right you are, Y2R... found it at the top of the forum... watched it closely.. and was just coming here to say that while I don't think of it as an easy pass... it is a pass you have to demand your QB to make. Crabtree was relatively open and Alex should be (and is) capable of making that throw on the move. He should have.

I appreciate your willingness to be open minded about this. It was a play that should have and needed to have been made. Cant leave touchdowns on the field like this one if your D isnt playing to its usual standard.

Yeah, I mean.. there's no way I could have seen that from my TV or the 720 thread (same difference). Must say, I was surprised that you guys were telling the truth on this play... but it is what it is.. Alex has to take those shots.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Right you are, Y2R... found it at the top of the forum... watched it closely.. and was just coming here to say that while I don't think of it as an easy pass... it is a pass you have to demand your QB to make. Crabtree was relatively open and Alex should be (and is) capable of making that throw on the move. He should have.

I appreciate your willingness to be open minded about this. It was a play that should have and needed to have been made. Cant leave touchdowns on the field like this one if your D isnt playing to its usual standard.

I agree that throw needs to be made. I also agree it's not an easy pass. That LB is 3 yards in front of Crabs. That takes perfect touch to drop it in over him. You also need to have the right amount of touch to get it there quick enough so the S coming hard from behind Crabs can't make a play either.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Right you are, Y2R... found it at the top of the forum... watched it closely.. and was just coming here to say that while I don't think of it as an easy pass... it is a pass you have to demand your QB to make. Crabtree was relatively open and Alex should be (and is) capable of making that throw on the move. He should have.

I appreciate your willingness to be open minded about this. It was a play that should have and needed to have been made. Cant leave touchdowns on the field like this one if your D isnt playing to its usual standard.

Yeah, I mean.. there's no way I could have seen that from my TV or the 720 thread (same difference). Must say, I was surprised that you guys were telling the truth on this play... but it is what it is.. Alex has to take those shots.

Truths in sports are just arrogant opinions.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
What kills me is Alex was actually looking into the endzone when he was rolling right. Its not like he tucked his head, ran, and couldnt see the open receiver. He SAW Crabtree open. He just chose not to throw it (reoccurring theme with Alex).

This. Great route design. Three levels of WRs breaking with the QB.

The third level was clear. I think Smith picks a place to throw pre-snap, and if that doesn't work out. Panics.

I don't think he panic'd. I just think he wasn't confident he could make that throw. It's not an easy throw with enough touch to get over a guy and enough zip to get there before the safety.
[ Edited by mkmasn on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:10 PM ]
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
What kills me is Alex was actually looking into the endzone when he was rolling right. Its not like he tucked his head, ran, and couldnt see the open receiver. He SAW Crabtree open. He just chose not to throw it (reoccurring theme with Alex).

This. Great route design. Three levels of WRs breaking with the QB.

The third level was clear. I think Smith picks a place to throw pre-snap, and if that doesn't work out. Panics.

I don't think he panic'd. I just think he wasn't confident he could make that throw. It's not an easy throw with enough touch to get over a guy and enough zip to get there before the safety.

I think the two go hand in hand.

He wasn't confident in the throw, so he panicked and took a sack. Its a pretty easy throw for an NFL QB to make. Smith made a similar throw to VD against the Lions. Except there was no traffic.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:13 PM ]
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Heres the thing though, as much as you may be right about a few people, you cannot seriously tell me that you believe Staley was the worst performer in this game in particular, or the reason we lost. He was not. He was going up against Jared Allen who is probably the best pass rusher in the entire league and Staley had far more good plays than bad. Meanwhile, Alex Smith had probably his worst game since we lost to the cardinals last year and it was against a very pedestrian secondary. Our playmakers came out flat and Alex Smith couldn't do anything to spark the offense and get us rolling. However if anyone says such a thing you call them a hater whether their critique is accurate or not.

I never said Staley had the worst game. He'd probably be pretty high on the list if you looked at individual performances though b/c he gave up another sack/forced fumble and Alex got out of another should be-sack and various other pressures/hits forcing Alex to move and throw off timing with his receivers. Like I said after the GB game, teams are going to target him even more. For whatever reason, Detroit didn't as much but the Vikings did and it worked. As to Alex, like one said earlier, he was 21 for 27 at one point with a TD and a couple dropped passes, a couple overthrows, etc. Not bad at all. It means our first reads were open or he was fitting it in there in tight windows and guys like Crabtree/VD were making those catches. He didn't play nearly as bad as someone from your POV might suggest. As to reasons why we lost, again, Alex would be pretty far down that list when you look at the overall picture, starting with the coaches and game plans.

I don't critique haters...I challenge their baseless arguments b/c haters always have a clear POV/agenda and instead of objectively looking at the full picture, they focus on one thing and support it like tobacco researcher are paid to do (BTW: Smoking IS bad for you!).

That's what I appreciated about BrianGo's assessment. People were complaining that Aldon has lost s step, wasn't providing any pressures, etc. He watched the tape, analyzed it and disproved that notion.

And until the haters get off their personal agenda and skewed POV, they will ALWAYS be challenged by people who do their homework...true fans that are looking for the truth and identify ways we can get better!
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Wide open and easy pass. What happened is he wanted Gore on the roll out. It was covered and Smith failed to make the next throw. This was a theme throughout this game. What is most disconcerning is these short passes are taken in agame we are losing badly.



re watching this play

whoever is on Gore would have an angle to pick the throw from Alex if it was a straight shot. would rather see Gore take his guy left to open the lane, there was a lot of garbage in the general vicinity....look at 35:36