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49er/Minn Coaches Film Pass Offense Analysis

Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Thanks to Whomeam for posting the video.

This is my first analysis here. I know other guys do it, but I just had to do one since they released the coaches film.

First half. We spread them out. We were actually very effective. Moss had some key mistakes. Our receivers were not open the majority of the time. There were two questionable check downs, but the coverage was there to warrant them.

The over throw to Moss is on Smith.

Just to get it out of the way:
Ponder's TD Run.The best view is at 24:11. Ponder drops back. Sets his feet, pump fakes. It takes a full second for the pocket to start collapsing from the edges. Soap gets pushed out of the middle to his left, leaving a wide open lane up the middle. Great read, but he had enough time to make it. Good play.

First Offensive Drive
1. Pass to Delanie was a designed screen. Both WRs were blocking before the ball was thrown.
2. Real good pass to Davis who had a guy on his outside shoulder. Smith put it right on his inside shoulder where only he could catch it for a first down.
3. The first drop by Moss should have been caught.
4. On Alex's sack when he rolled out and braced himself for the sack, he had immediate pressure, avoided the first sack, no receiver was open. The sack was inconsequential, it was 3rd down and we punted anyway. Had he thrown it away we would have gained 2 yards. As he was rolling, he crept back up to the LOS.

Second Drive

1. Alex makes a good hot route read. Has immediate pressure right up the middle, throws it quick to Moss on an inside seam, Moss doesn't really attempt to catch it. Looks like the ball got there before Moss was ready for it. Alex looked immediately. Looks like a miscue on Moss.
2. Alex's slip. Moss was the read and the only guy open. Problem is, Moss doesn't look back until it's too late. He gets into the zone, and as he's turning around, a LB steps into the bottom of the zone. Pressure comes from the left side, Alex rolls and slips.
3. Boone still makes me laugh, although Gore might have gotten a lot more on the play. On second look, there was a Viking right there with the right angle, but Boone's shove seems to have thrown Gore into a different angle and velocity. He actually helped on the play.
4. at 16:42 in the video on the check down when Davis looks open, Smith is reads left, middle, check down. DB has WR covered, LB has Davis covered. As Smith goes to his check down, the linebacker pulls off, making it look like Davis is open. No other WR is open until Smith reads his check down.
5. Good throw to Moss on an out before he make his cut.
6. 18:00 Overthrow to Moss. I'm on the fence. Moss makes a great double move. Beats his defender flat out. Did he take the wrong angle? Smith has enough time gets hit just after the throw. It looks like it was just over thrown. But Moss has been making mistakes all day up to this point. Final verdict: Overthrown.

Third Drive

1. Smith's next rollout. He has Davis on a drag who is the only man open, but gets pressure when Jared Allen beats Staley. Smith avoids the sack. Davis ends up with two defenders just behind him, Alex tucks it and gains those yards anyway. Manningham is directly behind on of the defenders, and the throw would have been possible, but there's also a DB right behind him. Alex would have had to float it over a defender and risk the DB being able to make a play.
2. Checkdown to Crabs 28:27. It looks like Manningham makes a good move and gets open, but the DB on Walker slides off into the zone in front of Manningham, and the safety is just over the top. Alex could have made a bullet pass, but the DB could have made a lay on it.
3. 29:24 Quasi-Sack/Throwaway. Jared Allen just makes a damn good play after beating Staley again. Allen beats Staley to the outside, leaving a huge hole up the middle. Right side of the line is holding up fine. Alex starts running up the middle just like Ponder did, Allen manages to just barely grab him. Would have been a huge gain had Staley been able to hold half a second longer.
4. 29:50 Allen beats Staley again BAD. Staley gets beat so bad, he falls down. No receivers are open. Quick pass to Davis for a short gain.
5. Field goal blocked. They pushed EVERYONE back 5 yards.

Second half tomorrow.

Great stuff!!!!!!!

Naturally the Alex-haters would never watch the game again, (if they even watch at all) objectively like this so I really appreciate all the analysis people are doing now! It makes for some great debates and highlights the REAL concerns...like Staley...someone I've been highlighting for quite a while now. Not b/c I have a personal agenda against him...just that in reviewing the "tape" he stands out to me as a big issue. Alex actually saved him from another sack like you pointed out and maybe more. It also highlights how Alex straightened out his mechanics AND is still just a bit off with some of the newer WR additions (which is to be expected). It will get better, no doubt. Eventually, hopefully, like Crabtree so far this year, Moss and Manningham will be on the same page with Alex like VD is w/o question.

are you for real? Watch the first offensive play of the game. Play action roll out and smith passes to a covered crabs for minimul gain and misses a wide open moss in tbe middle of the field for 10-15 yards. It got worse from there. He missed a s**t load of mid range plays and went with the short s**t, even when we were down.

There were many time where he was rushed. But when he had shots, he didnt take them.
He threw short.

He did some nice things as well like getting the ball out fast, so even if there was a rush, it didnt matter.

Are you for real? A designed roll out flood to the right and you want him to throw to the one guy on the field he would have to throw across his body 20 yards to reach?

Keep reaching.

You've never seen a roll out play where the QB stops and throws it back across the field? We've done it before. Think about plays like the throw back screen vs. Pittsberg last year. Roll out, stop and throw back across....

On the play, Moss was wide open in the middle of the field. If Smith read the play correctly after the play action he would have planted his feet and fired to the middle of the field which was wide open. The middle linebackers bit on the play action and the middle was open for moss. The play design was good.

Instead, he just looks at Crabs the whole way and throws it there even though its covered up by a LB, hoping Crab would make break a tackle or something. 5 yard gain instead of a 10-15 yard gain or more.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You've never seen a roll out play where the QB stops and throws it back across the field? We've done it before. Think about plays like the throw back screen vs. Pittsberg last year. Roll out, stop and throw back across....

On the play, Moss was wide open in the middle of the field. If Smith read the play correctly after the play action he would have planted his feet and fired to the middle of the field which was wide open. The middle linebackers bit on the play action and the middle was open for moss. The play design was good.

Instead, he just looks at Crabs the whole way and throws it there even though its covered up by a LB, hoping Crab would make break a tackle or something. 5 yard gain instead of a 10-15 yard gain or more.

This might come back to trust...not sure. Years prior it was Vernon or bust, now with Crabs looking legit he is becomeing the next best option.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You've never seen a roll out play where the QB stops and throws it back across the field? We've done it before. Think about plays like the throw back screen vs. Pittsberg last year. Roll out, stop and throw back across....

On the play, Moss was wide open in the middle of the field. If Smith read the play correctly after the play action he would have planted his feet and fired to the middle of the field which was wide open. The middle linebackers bit on the play action and the middle was open for moss. The play design was good.

Instead, he just looks at Crabs the whole way and throws it there even though its covered up by a LB, hoping Crab would make break a tackle or something. 5 yard gain instead of a 10-15 yard gain or more.

You are talking about a much more difficult throw to Moss when the play design had Crabtree as the primary receiver. Also keep in mind... by the time Alex sets his feet and throws that proposed pass to Moss... # 55 is hauling arse from underneath towards Moss... so who can say where # 55 is by the time the ball arrives?
Smith missed a lot of passes in this game. He needs to take a few more chances. Nothing different from last year for me. He's efficient, just not spectacular. Will take the checkdown (not necessarily a bad thing) over the deep shot.

He's not asked to make many tough throws.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Smith missed a lot of passes in this game. He needs to take a few more chances. Nothing different from last year for me. He's efficient, just not spectacular. Will take the checkdown (not necessarily a bad thing) over the deep shot.

He's not asked to make many tough throws.

ive posted this twice earlier if you havent seen this is what joe montana said during lockout last year after seeing the playbook


According to Super Joe, "Jim's offense pretty much resembles a lot of what we ran with the old 49ers with Bill Walsh. Smith has to understand they're going to give him places to make plays. He doesn't have to try to throw the ball down field, he'll have a lot of options to work with. He has to learn he can drop the ball down for five or six yards and that's good. Completions are a big part of this
Wow an entire drive lost to Joe Staley. I'm dead serious guys when I say that we really need an upgrade at LT. This is week #2 Staley has struggled. You can't take accurate deep passes down the field when the QBs blind side is nearly always an issue.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Sep 27, 2012 at 6:39 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Wow an entire drive lost to Joe Staley. I'm dead serious guys when I say that we really need an upgrade at LT. This is week #2 Staley has struggled. You can't take accurate deep passes down the field when the QBs blind side is nearly always an issue.

People don't wanna hear that. Alex is supposed to evade with the quickness of Vick or shrug off would-be sacks like Big Ben!
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Yea, Staley is getting beat pretty badly. I hope it's just because it's the beginning of the season. The two in the third drive are back to back plays. The right side of the line is holding up very well. Crabtree is doing great.

I should point out that the designed plays have a read usually wide open, and that's where we're getting our chunks of yardage. The other receivers, however are not getting open. Smith is going through progressions on a lot of the plays, and some of them are designed for one guy.

Staley is keeping the position warm for Anthony Davis. In three games his name has not been mentioned, which is great for an offensive lineman. For a large man he has quick feet. He pancakes opposing players, and he is nasty.
I mentioned this in another thread but I have Davis down for .5 sacks and Staley at 3.5 granted he has went up against Matthews and Allen. People might want to switch and it could be a possibility but I doubt it during the season. Staley is signed with us for a long time so it could happen down the road. However, you have to remember who he has went up against. Staley's sacks given up could even out over the season as he faces easier guys. Plus Anthony Davis likes bull rush guys... you can bull rush him all day and not get by him but he can be beat by speed much much easier. Granted RDE have gotten better and there isn't as much of a gap and also teams can interchange them but for the most part the best rusher (usually the quickest as well) is on the left side.

Looking at the matchups:
Staley = Matthews, Allen, Vanden bosch (might have gotten some avril?)
Davis = Nick Perry...rookie, power guy | Cliff Avril.. did he face Vanden Bosch at all? avril is small, not quickest | Brian Robison (smaller but not really quick)

My opinion on Staley is he is above average, a fairly solid starter but he's locked up so long term doubt we have any plans to upgrade over him. Still we probably have other needs anyways.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Sep 27, 2012 at 8:07 PM ]
Yeah, we don't give the QB a clean pocket and we rarely see those times where the qb can stand there all day and throw. Our guys don't really stick with their blocks. They are great in the run game but somewhat average in the passing game. Plus our play calling doesn't help at times... not enough quick throws. We have given up 10 sacks, 2 on alex (one slip, one didn't cost us, trying to wait for an open receiver)... given up 13 hits and 8 sacks in the 3 games which is kind of understating how much pressure alex gets. He evades a lot of pressure and has helped get us out of a handful of sacks. The throw with Allen on his ankle, the bad snap from goodwin are 2 off the top of my head. It is somewhat playcalling, could be Solari/drevno, could be alex, could be receivers not coming back to the ball... it's gone on for a long time though. We haven't had a good PASS OL in a long long time. We consistently give up 40+ sacks. We struggle with picking up blitzes or disguised rushers and continue to do so (maybe not as bad as last year though).

I think we can help out the OL with more slants, quick throws, less 7 step drops... how often do we do 3 or 5 step drops... rarely. Alex can help.... if he sees something take it, doesn't have to be perfect, throw the guy open, he doesn't have to be completely open. OL can help by keeping on their blocks, need to work on picking up blitzes/disguised rushers.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Sep 27, 2012 at 8:10 PM ]
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You've never seen a roll out play where the QB stops and throws it back across the field? We've done it before. Think about plays like the throw back screen vs. Pittsberg last year. Roll out, stop and throw back across....

On the play, Moss was wide open in the middle of the field. If Smith read the play correctly after the play action he would have planted his feet and fired to the middle of the field which was wide open. The middle linebackers bit on the play action and the middle was open for moss. The play design was good.

Instead, he just looks at Crabs the whole way and throws it there even though its covered up by a LB, hoping Crab would make break a tackle or something. 5 yard gain instead of a 10-15 yard gain or more.

This might come back to trust...not sure. Years prior it was Vernon or bust, now with Crabs looking legit he is becomeing the next best option.

I don't mind the throw really. It was the first play of the game and he took the easy throw. But this was going on all game, and we were down all game. Many times by 2+ scores.

As for the trust issue, Weeden just ran the exact same play in Cleveland. Except he looked up field and made the throw.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You've never seen a roll out play where the QB stops and throws it back across the field? We've done it before. Think about plays like the throw back screen vs. Pittsberg last year. Roll out, stop and throw back across....

On the play, Moss was wide open in the middle of the field. If Smith read the play correctly after the play action he would have planted his feet and fired to the middle of the field which was wide open. The middle linebackers bit on the play action and the middle was open for moss. The play design was good.

Instead, he just looks at Crabs the whole way and throws it there even though its covered up by a LB, hoping Crab would make break a tackle or something. 5 yard gain instead of a 10-15 yard gain or more.

You are talking about a much more difficult throw to Moss when the play design had Crabtree as the primary receiver. Also keep in mind... by the time Alex sets his feet and throws that proposed pass to Moss... # 55 is hauling arse from underneath towards Moss... so who can say where # 55 is by the time the ball arrives?

Its not that hard. Stop, plant and throw 20 yards to wide open moss in the middle o the field. The ILB bit on the play action.
Weeden on Cleveland just hit the same pass and he was still moving.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You've never seen a roll out play where the QB stops and throws it back across the field? We've done it before. Think about plays like the throw back screen vs. Pittsberg last year. Roll out, stop and throw back across....

We need to do more of those. usually on those vernon will fake block and then get lost and end up wide open on the other side of the field. Get them thinking roll outs and then throw it across the field.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Its not that hard. Stop, plant and throw 20 yards to wide open moss in the middle o the field. The ILB bit on the play action.
Weeden on Cleveland just hit the same pass and he was still moving.

you act like hes never made that play before he missed it move on

ive seen aaron rodgers miss that throw many times

brady missed an open welker in the SB that really wouldve won him the game on a similar throw except brady had a pocket

qbs dont make every throw and hit their WR all the time but as of ow alex is hitting his targets way more times than not
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Its not that hard. Stop, plant and throw 20 yards to wide open moss in the middle o the field. The ILB bit on the play action.
Weeden on Cleveland just hit the same pass and he was still moving.

you act like hes never made that play before he missed it move on

ive seen aaron rodgers miss that throw many times

brady missed an open welker in the SB that really wouldve won him the game on a similar throw except brady had a pocket

qbs dont make every throw and hit their WR all the time but as of ow alex is hitting his targets way more times than not

Yes QBs miss those throws but it's with our offense there's too much at stake