SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS VS. GREEN BAY PACKERS GAMEDAY THREAD (Week 1)

@ZBEAR

Good write up.

May be a 'draw' of the O-line, but Lang and Newhouse both second year starters going into this year with their first start last year, going against Justin Smith and Aldon Smith should be a concern. Boone -first time starter and first time playing Guard-- puts a damper on our otherwise veteran line.

Admittedly, don't know much about the Packers secondary. How did you end up giving the 'nod to the Packers' I'm not sure. Our secondary is very good. Carlos Rogers had 6 Ints. Made the ProBowl. Tarrell Brown really came on strong in the second half of the season last year and had 4 INTs (each in his last 4 games) and 1 in the postseason. Whitner and Goldson is a good tandem of safeties. Hard hitting. Goldson had 6INTs, made the ProBowl last year. With Whitner good all around strong safety, decent in coverage and very good run support.

@ZBEAR

Thanks for coming on and giving your thoughts. There was a lot of good stuff in there. That said, I started skimming after you said that Finley was the most talented TE in the league. There aren't even a lot of Packers fans who think that - they don't like him because 1) he drops TONS of passes and 2) he's an overrated cocky dude and is the sort of guy who celebrates like he won the SB after catching a 5 yard pass.

I'm a 49ers fan in Packers country. Having grown up surrounded by Packers fans during a time period when the Packers have completely dominated the 49ers has been a little annoying, but easier with time and with Jim Harbaugh. Anyways, I watched all the Packers preseason games and watch them in the regular season whenever the 49ers aren't on. I do this because a) I root against them because I'm vengeful and immature and b) it gives me something to talk about with my friends, as Packers fans rarely know anything about any other team, especially anyone outside of the NFC North, and they don't like discussing other teams much, which is why the Packers never get beat by their opponent - they threw away every loss since the Favre era. Kuddos for being the exception to my anecdotal rule! Here's my breakdown:

QB: Obviously Packers by a ton. Rodgers plays like he made a deal with the devil.

WR: Packers by a lot. I would take Jennings and Nelson over any 49er WR. If you took them away, then the units might be even - if Randy Moss is at least serviceable. So yeah, let's not kid ourselves. The Packers WRs are excellent. Rodgers is great, but his WRs also help make him look that way.

TE: 49ers. VD is a beast as we all know, and he would challenge any other TE if he was in a more pass-friendly offense. He's also an elite blocker. Walker is also very good and a weapon in his own right. Finley can't block and drops too many passes. He's second tier, vastly overrated (like whatshisname from Seattle ~5-10 years ago, remember him? same guy) and takes the award as my most hated Packer. It's an illustrious award, having been won by the likes of Antonio Freeman.

OL: 49ers. The 49ers left side is probably on the level of the Packers right side. The Packers left side, particularly tackle, is not very good. Meanwhile, Davis is okay and Boone is a mystery IMO until we see him in the regular season. Goodwin>old Saturday. The Packers also have NO depth at OL and are completely screwed if anyone gets hurt.

RB: 49ers, by a lot. It's funny listening to Packers fans marvel at Cedric Benson. But you can't blame them, he's very good compared to what they've had there for many years. I can't even think of an elite RB they've had since I've been watching. The closest might be Dorsey Levens, and calling him elite is quite charitable. Meanwhile, Gore, while slowing down, excels in every facet of the game. Hunter looks like he'll have a breakout year. James is intriguing, Jacobs is legitimate. Are there any teams that can match that depth? I still don't like Dixon, but will he get many carries?

Offense overall: Packers, by a lot, assuming good health. Their passing game is stupid good and trumps everything else. Other than WR, the 49ers have more depth though. But that probably doesn't matter on Sunday. By playoff time? We'll see.

DL: 49ers, by more of a margin than most NFL fans and especially Packers fans know. It's funny that Justin Smith is getting national attention, he's been a beast for years but his impact is not media-friendly (stats and outlandish celebrations/personality; as opposed to Jared Allen for instance). I'd take him and Ray McDonald over anyone the Packers trot out there, including BJ Raji, who makes hilarious car insurance commercials but who is otherwise a bit overrated. He's good, he's not THAT good. Pickett is still decent, but was much better four years ago when he was only 55.

LB: I'm not going to insult the 49ers starting LB corps by even mentioning their names in a comparison between the 49ers and Packers. Come on now. All I'll say is Clay Matthews has fallen off a lot - he probably stopped taking steriods. Other than being a 1st round pick that Packers fans are contractually obligated to be excited about (what with their Packers "stock" that gives them "partial ownership" of the team, but doesn't come with any "property rights" or "dividends" of any sort), Nick Perry has not impressed. Maybe towards the end of the season when he's a bit seasoned he'll start making a play or two. Meanwhile, I laugh every time AJ Hawk comes up in conversation. He was going to be the next Urlacher, and the Packers picked him over VD. LOL. He wouldn't start on quite a lot of teams. I'm not sure he makes the 49ers roster, seriously. Larry Grant is definitely better by a good margin (Packers fans: consult a 49ers depth chart).

DBs: 49ers, by a lot. It was this part of the above breakdown that convinced me to write my own. The 49ers have two Pro Bowlers and the sort of depth at the cornerback position that the Packers offense is not accustomed to dealing with. Sure, the Pro Bowl invites might have been partially inspired by hype surrounding the defense as a whole, but they are strong. Tramon Williams is overrated above, I would consider taking Rodgers, Brown, AND Culliver over him. Charles Woodson is a playmaker - he's always around the ball and finds himself forcing fumbles and returning interceptions with regularity That said, he's fallen off considerably since two years ago when he was a beast. Also, I invite you watch him cover WRs on Sunday. He can't cover anyone without molesting them - he could be called for holding or PI all the freaking time, though too his credit he's a wily vet that knows how to get away with it. The big thing here though is that the Packers don't even know who will occupy the other two spots - which means they have a bunch of backups and have to decide amongst them. Don't get it twisted, while the 49ers secondary might be a TAD overrated because of the front seven they get to play behind, the Packers secondary is a considerable liability.

Defense overall: LOL

Special teams: 49ers, though I would give the Packers a modest edge in returning with Ginn out because I have PTSD in re Kyle Williams.

Coaching: Well, the homer in me thinks Harbaugh can do no wrong. If someone could find an objective way of rating head coaches, I'm sure that Mike Singletary would be one of the worst - maybe THE worst, of the last decade of more (sorry for opening old wounds). Harbaugh comes in and all of the sudden the 49ers are regularly out-gameplanning and out strategizing their opponent. Lots of people talk about how the 49ers were an anomaly last season and will fall back to earth. Yes, they probably overachieved given what we know about turnovers and injuries. But the season before, they underachieved because they were coached by [insert your own description of Mike Singletary as a head coach]. They underachieved in 2010. Anyways, I'm convinced that Harbaugh is going to win at least one Super Bowl, especially if he gets the production from the QB position that he wants, either with Smith or eventually with someone else. McCarthy, meanwhile, already has a Super Bowl and is definitely a good coach. I really want to give this to Harbaugh, I think he's better, but he hasn't really proven it while McCarthy has the ring. So I guess slight edge to the Packers. And although one game is a lousy way to compare coaches, it will be interesting to see who comes up with more clever gameplanning in this, the first game of the year. The game where you can come up with all sorts of crazy ish that the other team hasn't seen. Should be a good gauge of gameplanning at least.

Overall: ? We get to find out Sunday! I honestly think it'll come down to turnovers (as out on a limb as that prediction is) and how much Alex Smith and his new weapons have truly developed. Only with crazy turnovers will the Packers score more than 27 points. The Packers defense sucks, but can the 49ers score more than 27 points on them? They'll probably have to do so without much help in the turnover department, as Rodgers is Smith-esque in not throwing interceptions (while sprinkling in TD passes, you know, here and there). Might be able to force a Benson fumble, although I suspect he'll be two-handing it every one of the eight times they give him the ball. So to me, this is a big test for the 49ers offense as strange as that sounds.

For all the talk about the Packers defense being bad last season they tied with the 9ers in takeaways. Also the defensive passer rating from last year had the 9ers at 5th and the Packers at 10th.

Originally posted by ivo610:
For all the talk about the Packers defense being bad last season they tied with the 9ers in takeaways. Also the defensive passer rating from last year had the 9ers at 5th and the Packers at 10th.

The Packer defense is not the niner defense. Even Ray Charles can see that.

Originally posted by TlSSER:

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Green Bay WILL use a LOT of 4 & 5 WR packages to attack us , they wont be able to run the ball on us , so we should be prepared for an air attack and draw up the schemes to keep our best defenders on the field.

our Nickel should look like this

DE - Brooks
DT- Soap / Ray Mac
DT- Cowboy / RJF
DE- Aldon
LB - Bowman
LB- Willis
FS- Goldson
SS- Whitner
CB -Rogers
CB - Brown
CB- Cox / Culliver

Jordy & Jennings will learn to fear the deadly "BROWN-COX"

And to say that the Packer ST are a notch above the niners? Hogwash. Andy Lee, David Akers, and Tony Montana squad. No chance

Past time for 49ers to end Packers streak


http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/73511/past-time-for-49ers-to-end-packers-streak

Losing at Green Bay in Week 1 this season would saddle the 49ers with 10 consecutive defeats in a regular-season series for the third time in franchise history, according to ESPN Stats & Information.

Enough is enough.

My prediction. A stunner...

SF - 27
GB - 20

The Packers simply must key on our running game... and that will allow Alex, Moss, VD, and others some space to succeed early on in a few shots down the field. This will put the GB defense on their heels all game.. unsure of what is coming next. Rodgers will get some big plays downfield.. but our D will clamp down more often than not. I can not see our pass rush struggling much vs their OL. We need to have our CBs playing physical and disrupt the timing of the WR routes. All smiles come Sunday, Monday, and for the rest of the week. This will be a huge victory!

I hope Alex and VD pick up where they left off last season!!

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
The Packer defense is not the niner defense. Even Ray Charles can see that.

Even Helen Keller knows the Packers offense is vastly superior the the 9ers offense.

Not really understanding where all this hype for Randy Moss is coming from. He is 35 and didnt play football last season. The year before he was terrible.

Oh and the Finley is the most talented TE in the league comment from the Packer fan was the most hommeristic thing I have ever seen. He is at best a tier 3 TE.

Originally posted by ivo610:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
The Packer defense is not the niner defense. Even Ray Charles can see that.

Even Helen Keller knows the Packers offense is vastly superior the the 9ers offense.

Not really understanding where all this hype for Randy Moss is coming from. He is 35 and didnt play football last season. The year before he was terrible.

Oh and the Finley is the most talented TE in the league comment from the Packer fan was the most hommeristic thing I have ever seen. He is at best a tier 3 TE.

While I wouldn't feel all cozy putting money on it, you nor I or anyone else really know how much the gap has closed on GB's offensive superiority. Got to judge off of what 2012 brings... what's in the past is... well, the past.

Originally posted by ivo610:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
The Packer defense is not the niner defense. Even Ray Charles can see that.

Even Helen Keller knows the Packers offense is vastly superior the the 9ers offense.

Not really understanding where all this hype for Randy Moss is coming from. He is 35 and didnt play football last season. The year before he was terrible.

Oh and the Finley is the most talented TE in the league comment from the Packer fan was the most hommeristic thing I have ever seen. He is at best a tier 3 TE.

I am willing to wager that our defense will be better prepared to stop your offense than the pack will ours.

I'm surprised at the confidence of Niners fans going into this one. The Packers have Aaron Rodgers....that alone should put some concern in you because he is the single biggest difference maker on the field Sunday.

Originally posted by ZBEAR:
Hello, first time poster. I am a die hard packers fan though I also root for the niners because I grew up in Fremont and root for the Bay teams. I was an assistant HS football coach and I will try to give my objective take on the game. I will go through each position for both teams and label the winner of the position

QB: Aaron Rodgers is the best player in the league. Nuff said.
Alex Smith generally wasn't an effective QB until last year. That's when he adopted a conservative style in which he would take a sack before throwing into crowds and almost never fumbled. The Packers win this position easy.

RB: The Packers recently signed Cedric Benson. He is not an elite RB at all but should be decent between the tackles. I think he can have a healthy 4.0 carry this year because of the lack of defenders in the box. Clearly, if the Packers have to rely on their running game to win games, they are not winning many games. Cedric Benson is average at best. The backup running back is Alex Green. He is coming off a very serious ACL injury. He will have minimum impact for half the season but has the potential to be a good running back for years to come.

Hate to break it to you Niners fans but you have a descending player in Frank Gore. Gore, is a hard-nosed, darting runner whose best year was '06. He's overcome a lot, catches well and is tough against the blitz, but father times is catching up to him. Hunter was as impressive in camp as any player on the roster. He's a shifty, hard runner for his size with quickness and size. I really think Hunter will end up as the best runner by the end of the season. As for the rest of the running backs, they are not very good. Lamichael James has potential but is very raw. The Niners win this position easy thanks to the 1-2 punch of Gore and Hunter.


WR/ TE: The packers easily have the deepest WR group in the league. They have 2 legit number ones in Greg jennings and Jordy Nelson. James Jones and Randall Cobb are terrific 3 and 4th option. I sincerely believe that Cobb can become the number 2 target on the Niners. Add in Jermicahel Finley, who is the most talented TE in football, One can easily see why this is the most talented receiving corp in the league.

In no particular order, the top three WRs figure to be Michael Crabtree , Randy Moss and Mario Manningham. Crabtree, , would be an excellent No. 2 but hasn't proven himself as a bona fide No. 1. He has tremendous hands and deceptive deep speed and attacks the ball in traffic. His preparation hasn't always been the best. Desperate for a vertical threat, the 49ers gave Moss a one-year, $2.5 million contract that also included $1.5 million in incentives. He's 35, sat out all 2011 and played listlessly for three teams in '10. He's expected to play about 20 to 25 snaps. Manningham, who sat out three of four exhibition games, is capable of acrobatic catches and still runs well. He just isn't a quick study. Ted Ginn (ankle) and top pick A.J. Jenkins (6-0, 192) figure to be inactive. All-Pro TE Vernon Davis presents matchup nightmares because he runs faster than some WRs, isn't dropping as many balls these days and is dangerous after the catch. Veteran backup Delanie Walker (6-1, 242) can get downfield, too. I love the Tight-ends but the Receivers are just average. It is completely understandable to hype your favorite team but realistically, when Crabtreee is the number one target, your team is screaming for upgrades at the position. The packers easily win this position but I must say VD is an absolute stud!

OL: The packers have potentially the best right side of the line in the League. Bulaga and Sitton are both rated in top 10 and 5 at their position. Jeff Saturday is the center and will have to be replaced soon. I cant see him holding up for the year. The Left Guard is manned by TJ Lang. He should be a solid guard for years to come. He moves his feet, his size is more than adequate, he gets after people and his awareness is top-notch. The LT is a question mark. It is manned by Marshall NewHouse. In camp, he blocked better for the pass than the run. He has the feet to stay in front of rushers. What the Packers don't see is finish, especially in the run game. He lacks a little power, a little size and a little nastiness. A fifth-round draft choice in 2010, Newhouse is being asked to do a lot without a legitimate backup on the roster. If he struggles, Mike McCarthy will be forced to give him help. Overall, if Newhouse can get it together and I am confident with his skill set he can, this Oline can be one of the best in the league.

The only new starter is RG Alex Boone, a free-agent tackle in 2009 from Ohio State who has remade his body. Top-heavy and more of a waist-bender, Boone provides muscle and size. LT Joe Staley, probably the most consistent starter, bends well, has good feet and handles speed and finesse. He rates among the top 10 to 12 tackles. RT Anthony Davis won't turn 23 for another month, and his play lacks maturity. He's flexible, quick and nasty but wastes too much energy shoving and pushing at or after the whistle. RG Mike Iupati, the 17th pick in 2010, is more advanced than Davis and might soon be an honors candidate. He has long arms and a road-grading mentality. C Jonathan Goodwin has made 74 starts in 10 seasons for the Jets, Saints and 49ers. He's smart (25 on the Wonderlic intelligence test) and doesn't fluster but can be power-rushed. Like the Packers, this Oline is equally talented. This position is a draw.


DL: For the Packers, the base starters are BJ Raji, Pickett and CJ Wilson. BJ seems poised to crack the All-Pro honors. Excellent pad level and above average pass rusher in the inside. Pickett is one of the best in holding the point. Wilson has put on 10 to 15 pounds since arriving in the seventh round in 2010. At East Carolina, he was known mostly as a pass rusher and finished with 27 sacks. At some point, the Packers and Wilson decided to play to his strength, which is stacking blockers and finding the ball as a base end. He's a sleeker, younger version of Howard Green. The packers utilize the nickle defense 75% of the time. Raji and Worthy will become the nickle D Linemen. Worthy in four exhibition games, he had just one pressure. The quickness off the ball that made Worthy a standout at Michigan State hasn't paid dividends yet for him in the NFL but one can easily see the potential with the blind eye. I see him becoming a very good pass rusher from the inside. However, he is a year or two away from becoming a force inside. On the other hand, he has functioned pretty well in the base 3-4.

What most opposing fan don't know is the Packers can play the run very well. The certainly have the players. The question is why they give up big chunks of yard on the groung? Well as I said, the play 2-4-5 formation most of the game, playing the pass. For an opponent like the runners, they will have to play their base most of the game and I see the packers doing a good job against the run and forcing Alex Smith to make plays with his arm.

The Niners RE Justin Smith might be the strongest man in football. He can walk back just about every O-lineman and seldom budges against double teams. He's also quick and smart, and his stamina is incredible. He played 91.1% of the snaps in '11. LE Ray McDonald, a third-round pick in '07, is a cut below Smith but still ranks among the leading 3-4 ends. He's very tough to move, has a solid bull rush and exudes physicality. NT Isaac Sopoaga still moves pretty well, is strong as an ox and can be a load to dislodge. DE Ricky Jean Francois (6-2 ½, 295) played poorly against the Packers in 2010 but is a decent spare. Overall, the Packers have the players to have a good Dline but Justin Smith is a monster. Niners win.


LB: For Packers, Clay Matthews, plagued by hamstring woes in recent training camps, he was injury-free and played exceptionally well. At times, it appeared as if he was a man among boys charging off the right side, where he returns after two years on the left. Just 26, Matthews should have a long, illustrious career ahead of him. Last season, he was unable to take over games by himself. This season, he just might. Dj Smith, Desmond Bishop's hamstring injury opened the door for Smith, who replaced him on the weak side in base and quickly shot past A.J. Hawk as the lone LB in dime. Smith hasn't disappointed. As teammate Terrell Manning put it, "He's a master of the defense." He will be counted on to call Dom Capers' defense and play 100% of the downs. He is a tackling machine. Nick Perry, installed as the starter on the left side in May, he basically has done everything his coaches have asked. Snap after snap, he has stuck his long arms inside the shoulders of a tackle or tight end and either driven him back or earned a stalemate. At this point, he plays a strict power game. He will need to develop more of a pass-rushing repertoire. He also will have to play harder on a down-in, down-out basis. Aj Hawk is good against the run, but I cringe at the thought of him covering walker or vd.

The Niners probably have the NFL's finest group. ILB Patrick Willis is the best in the business. ILB NaVorro Bowman, a third-round pick in '10, became a starter last year and played almost as well as Willis. The difference is that while Bowman runs a respectable 40 (4.64 seconds), it pales in comparison to Willis, who runs in the 4.4s. They are almost equally effective slugging it out inside, tackling and blitzing. ROLB Parys Haralson, a competent five-year starter, went on injured reserve Monday but his job already had been handed to Aldon Smith. Smith runs 4.74 and has enormous arms (35 3/8). He sets a mean edge against the run, has the speed to turn the corner, and can accelerate inside on wicked stunts set up by Justin Smith. He just needs to get stronger., a backup in Cincinnati and San Francisco from 2006-'10, blossomed last year and had his best camp this summer. He's an elite talent, a punishing hitter and fast. His instincts are just so-so. Overall, Clay Matthews is the biggest force and the Packers overall have a lot of talent, but the Niners win this one.


CB/S: Tramon Williams, after playing the position in 2010 possibly as well as anyone in the league, I had him rated second best pure cover corner behind Revis Island, he crashed to mediocrity in '11. Part of the problem was the nerve problem in his shoulder area that never really went away. Part of the problem was taking too many chances, biting on too many double moves and missing too many tackles. So far, so good. His level of performance in August was closer to '10 than it was '11. The opposite starter is unknown but sam shields should get most of the playing time even if he does not start. The safeties are Charles Woodson and Morgan Burnett. Charles Woodson, shifting him from outside to inside in the base defense made sense. He was becoming vulnerable trying to cover on an island. At safety, Woodson will have to play a more disciplined game. He'll also have to deal with the head-to-head collisions when he's deep and a running back breaks free inside. They're never a lot of fun, especially for a 15-year veteran. From the slot, his old stomping ground, Woodson can outwit any quarterback with his anticipation and ball skills. Morgan Burnett,Still only 23, he has a vital two-dimensional job. In base, he must mesh with Woodson, who is new to safety and has a tendency to do his own thing. In nickel and dime, he will be paired with a young player that has little or no experience. It's a lot to ask, but the Packers' hopes for Burnett are exceedingly high. With Nick Collins retired, he has to perform like a No. 1 safety. He has the skill set to be a Pro Bowler this year and I expect him to earn it. This secondary has the potential to be really good and one of the best in the league. It is unwise to judge this secondary based on last year. Tramon williams should have been placed on IR and the pass rush was non-existent.

For the Niners, all the starters hit hard and tackle well. Their issue is coverage. LC Carlos Rogers and RC Tarell Brown, a backup for four years before winning the job last year, are better playing zone than man coverage. Generally a starter from 2005-'10 in Washington, Rogers is crafty, skilled and smooth. His hands are shaky. Brown, who paid his dues on special teams, is a tough guy with adequate speed. On passing downs, Rogers moves to the slot and either Chris Culliver or Perrish Cox will play LC. Culliver, a third-round pick in '11, runs well (4.38) but is more of a finesse player and has been picked on. Cox slipped to the fifth round in '10 because of off-field issues but had an eye-opening camp. His talent is undeniable. FS Dashon Goldson, a four-year starter, comes off a Pro Bowl season. He can run and makes big plays but in searching for kill shots sometimes will blow his responsibility. SS Donte Whitner, the eighth pick in '06 as a Bill, uses his aggressiveness best in the box. The secondary is talented but needs to do a much better job in coverage. Overall, I give the nod to Packers here.


ST: Packers have an up in coming Punter, a legit kicker and a potential superstar returner in Cobb.

The 49ers led the NFL here last season under Brad Seely, a highly successful special-teams coach for 23 years. P Andy Lee, who set the league record for net average (44.0), and K David Akers, who was 7 for 9 from 50-plus, were the Pro Bowl specialists. Lee bombs the ball. Akers, 37, spent 12 productive years in Philadelphia. With the dynamic Ginn (ankle) probably out, erratic Kyle Williams figures as the dual returner. I give the packers the nod with ginn out.


My take is the packers will win by 10 points. This match will be determined by how LT Marshall Newhouse and, probably to a lesser extent, LG T.J. Lang will have to block Smith on Sunday. How they hold up could determine the outcome. I have to go with Green Bay, I think they will find ways to block up the pass rush to buy (Aaron) Rodgers some time. Green Bay has a quarterback who is accurate throwing against a secondary that is really physical but struggles in coverage.


I am sorry about grammer mistakes!! I tried to be as objective as I can be. I have watched every packers/niners game for the last 15 years. I attended a few niners practices but did not attend any Packers practices.

Sorry @ZBEAR, I take back my earlier kuddos. You completely plagiarized the above from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. Come on man!

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packfoe05-t66o0hu-168564956.html

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by ivo610:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
The Packer defense is not the niner defense. Even Ray Charles can see that.

Even Helen Keller knows the Packers offense is vastly superior the the 9ers offense.

Not really understanding where all this hype for Randy Moss is coming from. He is 35 and didnt play football last season. The year before he was terrible.

Oh and the Finley is the most talented TE in the league comment from the Packer fan was the most hommeristic thing I have ever seen. He is at best a tier 3 TE.

I am willing to wager that our defense will be better prepared to stop your offense than the pack will ours.

What makes our defense so good is that they can generate good pressure with just the 3 guys on the line plus Aldon Smith -- that's 4. The rest of the guys can cover with Willis and Bowman playing the run also. That's usually 3rd and long, spread type offense. But on a more traditional offensive formation our front 7 is even better with the run stop and pressure. We got the talent personnel to be good either way.

.