SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS VS. GREEN BAY PACKERS GAMEDAY THREAD (Week 1) | Page 23

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by cortana49:

Originally posted by mkeniner:
-Packers fans make sure to stress that the defense gave up yards because they were playing with a lead but then in the same breath mention the turnovers as if playing with a lead didn't impact those. The reason the Packers got so many turnovers was precisely because they were playing with a lead so much - teams pressed, took risks, passed the ball more and did more reckless things in an attempt to score points. Can't have it both ways - either the defense owns the yards and turnovers or it owns neither.
-LOL on counting on a bunch of rookies to make a noteworthy difference in the first game of the season. Good luck with that.
-LOL at comparing DJ Smith, a backup linebacker forced to start, to Sam Mills. He was a backup for a reason.

-No question the Packers offense is fantastic, and nobody here has questioned that for one second. With that said, the Packers offense feasted on lousy defenses throughout 2011. They played 9 (Denver Minnesota St. Louis Detroit New Orleans NY Giants Carolina Oakland Tampa Bay) of the 13 worst defenses in yards per game, and one of those 13 teams was the Packers. Meanwhile, they did not play a single top 10 defense in yards/game. Not ONE.
-If you look at points/game instead, the trend is similar. The Packers played 9 of the bottom 11 defenses in points/game. They didn't play a single defense ranked in the top 10 in points/game. Again, not ONE.
-Granted, the fact that the Packers played these teams will skew their defensive stats a tiny bit (1/16 worth, or 1/8 for divisional opponents), but the trend is extreme and would be there just the same if you took out games against the Packers and recalculated these stats.

-The two best defenses (in yards/game) the Packers played were Kansas City (#11) and Atlanta (#12). They went 1-1 in those game, and averaged 19.5 points.
-The 49ers were 4th in yards/game and 2nd in points/game. They're better than the Giants were in the playoffs last season, and the Giants limited the Packers to 20 points despite several calls that went GB's way and ended up having scoring implications.
-The Packers have not played a defense like the 49ers since at least 2010. You don't have the perspective to realize the impact that good defense can have on an offense. After Sunday, you will have that perspective.

-The 49ers have a nasty D-Line, you saying otherwise is indicative of your knowledge level. If you're going to troll the opponent's forum, you really ought to bring it in terms of having an idea of what the heck you're talking about.
-IMO the Saints by playoffs time were a better team than the Packers. Better pass protection, better (slightly) defense, much better TE and RBs, who are the ones who made nearly all the big plays in that playoff game. Meanwhile, the Packers lost at home by 17 (despite favorable refereeing, as discussed) to a team that the 49ers took to overtime. Meh. 2012 is not 2011 at the end of the day, but for reasons described, your arguments blow.
-Comparing the 2006 Bears to the 2011 49ers is apt IMO. I think you're right about that. Will 2012 Alex Smith + plus 2012 49ers WRs be better than Rex Grossman and whoever the heck he was throwing to? I sure hope so and think so, but it has yet to be seen.
-The Packers gave up over 20 points 9 times in 2011 (10 if you include the playoffs). They scored 42 or more points six times (all to defense ranked at or below average in yards/game). The 49ers gave up 27 or more points three times in 2011. They scored 20 or more points 11 times, against many defenses better than the Packers. Based on last season, your prediction is objectively ridiculous.

This will be a close game that will hinge on turnovers and on Alex Smith's ability (or lack thereof) to exploit a bad defense, convert 3rd downs, and score touchdowns in the red zone. I think it's a pretty even matchup, and might be the best matchup in the NFL this season.

Enjoy the game!

Bravo.

Ya that post definitely broke it down. Good job.

Now I'm so hyped I can't sleep, and it's only tuesday.

No worries, tomorrow we will get to get some real football and see the Cowgirls get spanked, then I'm off on thursday so I shall go to shcool, do hw, friday is my birthday dinner, saturday I'm getting birthday sex from a new girl, having a party for my bday, then it's sunday and it's a 49er victory and my birthday. It shall go fast...FOR ME MUAHAHAHA

Hello, first time poster. I am a die hard packers fan though I also root for the niners because I grew up in Fremont and root for the Bay teams. I was an assistant HS football coach and I will try to give my objective take on the game. I will go through each position for both teams and label the winner of the position

QB: Aaron Rodgers is the best player in the league. Nuff said.
Alex Smith generally wasn't an effective QB until last year. That's when he adopted a conservative style in which he would take a sack before throwing into crowds and almost never fumbled. The Packers win this position easy.

RB: The Packers recently signed Cedric Benson. He is not an elite RB at all but should be decent between the tackles. I think he can have a healthy 4.0 carry this year because of the lack of defenders in the box. Clearly, if the Packers have to rely on their running game to win games, they are not winning many games. Cedric Benson is average at best. The backup running back is Alex Green. He is coming off a very serious ACL injury. He will have minimum impact for half the season but has the potential to be a good running back for years to come.

Hate to break it to you Niners fans but you have a descending player in Frank Gore. Gore, is a hard-nosed, darting runner whose best year was '06. He's overcome a lot, catches well and is tough against the blitz, but father times is catching up to him. Hunter was as impressive in camp as any player on the roster. He's a shifty, hard runner for his size with quickness and size. I really think Hunter will end up as the best runner by the end of the season. As for the rest of the running backs, they are not very good. Lamichael James has potential but is very raw. The Niners win this position easy thanks to the 1-2 punch of Gore and Hunter.

WR/ TE: The packers easily have the deepest WR group in the league. They have 2 legit number ones in Greg jennings and Jordy Nelson. James Jones and Randall Cobb are terrific 3 and 4th option. I sincerely believe that Cobb can become the number 2 target on the Niners. Add in Jermicahel Finley, who is the most talented TE in football, One can easily see why this is the most talented receiving corp in the league.

In no particular order, the top three WRs figure to be Michael Crabtree , Randy Moss and Mario Manningham. Crabtree, , would be an excellent No. 2 but hasn't proven himself as a bona fide No. 1. He has tremendous hands and deceptive deep speed and attacks the ball in traffic. His preparation hasn't always been the best. Desperate for a vertical threat, the 49ers gave Moss a one-year, $2.5 million contract that also included $1.5 million in incentives. He's 35, sat out all 2011 and played listlessly for three teams in '10. He's expected to play about 20 to 25 snaps. Manningham, who sat out three of four exhibition games, is capable of acrobatic catches and still runs well. He just isn't a quick study. Ted Ginn (ankle) and top pick A.J. Jenkins (6-0, 192) figure to be inactive. All-Pro TE Vernon Davis presents matchup nightmares because he runs faster than some WRs, isn't dropping as many balls these days and is dangerous after the catch. Veteran backup Delanie Walker (6-1, 242) can get downfield, too. I love the Tight-ends but the Receivers are just average. It is completely understandable to hype your favorite team but realistically, when Crabtreee is the number one target, your team is screaming for upgrades at the position. The packers easily win this position but I must say VD is an absolute stud!

OL: The packers have potentially the best right side of the line in the League. Bulaga and Sitton are both rated in top 10 and 5 at their position. Jeff Saturday is the center and will have to be replaced soon. I cant see him holding up for the year. The Left Guard is manned by TJ Lang. He should be a solid guard for years to come. He moves his feet, his size is more than adequate, he gets after people and his awareness is top-notch. The LT is a question mark. It is manned by Marshall NewHouse. In camp, he blocked better for the pass than the run. He has the feet to stay in front of rushers. What the Packers don't see is finish, especially in the run game. He lacks a little power, a little size and a little nastiness. A fifth-round draft choice in 2010, Newhouse is being asked to do a lot without a legitimate backup on the roster. If he struggles, Mike McCarthy will be forced to give him help. Overall, if Newhouse can get it together and I am confident with his skill set he can, this Oline can be one of the best in the league.

The only new starter is RG Alex Boone, a free-agent tackle in 2009 from Ohio State who has remade his body. Top-heavy and more of a waist-bender, Boone provides muscle and size. LT Joe Staley, probably the most consistent starter, bends well, has good feet and handles speed and finesse. He rates among the top 10 to 12 tackles. RT Anthony Davis won't turn 23 for another month, and his play lacks maturity. He's flexible, quick and nasty but wastes too much energy shoving and pushing at or after the whistle. RG Mike Iupati, the 17th pick in 2010, is more advanced than Davis and might soon be an honors candidate. He has long arms and a road-grading mentality. C Jonathan Goodwin has made 74 starts in 10 seasons for the Jets, Saints and 49ers. He's smart (25 on the Wonderlic intelligence test) and doesn't fluster but can be power-rushed. Like the Packers, this Oline is equally talented. This position is a draw.

DL: For the Packers, the base starters are BJ Raji, Pickett and CJ Wilson. BJ seems poised to crack the All-Pro honors. Excellent pad level and above average pass rusher in the inside. Pickett is one of the best in holding the point. Wilson has put on 10 to 15 pounds since arriving in the seventh round in 2010. At East Carolina, he was known mostly as a pass rusher and finished with 27 sacks. At some point, the Packers and Wilson decided to play to his strength, which is stacking blockers and finding the ball as a base end. He's a sleeker, younger version of Howard Green. The packers utilize the nickle defense 75% of the time. Raji and Worthy will become the nickle D Linemen. Worthy in four exhibition games, he had just one pressure. The quickness off the ball that made Worthy a standout at Michigan State hasn't paid dividends yet for him in the NFL but one can easily see the potential with the blind eye. I see him becoming a very good pass rusher from the inside. However, he is a year or two away from becoming a force inside. On the other hand, he has functioned pretty well in the base 3-4.

What most opposing fan don't know is the Packers can play the run very well. The certainly have the players. The question is why they give up big chunks of yard on the groung? Well as I said, the play 2-4-5 formation most of the game, playing the pass. For an opponent like the runners, they will have to play their base most of the game and I see the packers doing a good job against the run and forcing Alex Smith to make plays with his arm.

The Niners RE Justin Smith might be the strongest man in football. He can walk back just about every O-lineman and seldom budges against double teams. He's also quick and smart, and his stamina is incredible. He played 91.1% of the snaps in '11. LE Ray McDonald, a third-round pick in '07, is a cut below Smith but still ranks among the leading 3-4 ends. He's very tough to move, has a solid bull rush and exudes physicality. NT Isaac Sopoaga still moves pretty well, is strong as an ox and can be a load to dislodge. DE Ricky Jean Francois (6-2 ½, 295) played poorly against the Packers in 2010 but is a decent spare. Overall, the Packers have the players to have a good Dline but Justin Smith is a monster. Niners win.

LB: For Packers, Clay Matthews, plagued by hamstring woes in recent training camps, he was injury-free and played exceptionally well. At times, it appeared as if he was a man among boys charging off the right side, where he returns after two years on the left. Just 26, Matthews should have a long, illustrious career ahead of him. Last season, he was unable to take over games by himself. This season, he just might. Dj Smith, Desmond Bishop's hamstring injury opened the door for Smith, who replaced him on the weak side in base and quickly shot past A.J. Hawk as the lone LB in dime. Smith hasn't disappointed. As teammate Terrell Manning put it, "He's a master of the defense." He will be counted on to call Dom Capers' defense and play 100% of the downs. He is a tackling machine. Nick Perry, installed as the starter on the left side in May, he basically has done everything his coaches have asked. Snap after snap, he has stuck his long arms inside the shoulders of a tackle or tight end and either driven him back or earned a stalemate. At this point, he plays a strict power game. He will need to develop more of a pass-rushing repertoire. He also will have to play harder on a down-in, down-out basis. Aj Hawk is good against the run, but I cringe at the thought of him covering walker or vd.

The Niners probably have the NFL's finest group. ILB Patrick Willis is the best in the business. ILB NaVorro Bowman, a third-round pick in '10, became a starter last year and played almost as well as Willis. The difference is that while Bowman runs a respectable 40 (4.64 seconds), it pales in comparison to Willis, who runs in the 4.4s. They are almost equally effective slugging it out inside, tackling and blitzing. ROLB Parys Haralson, a competent five-year starter, went on injured reserve Monday but his job already had been handed to Aldon Smith. Smith runs 4.74 and has enormous arms (35 3/8). He sets a mean edge against the run, has the speed to turn the corner, and can accelerate inside on wicked stunts set up by Justin Smith. He just needs to get stronger., a backup in Cincinnati and San Francisco from 2006-'10, blossomed last year and had his best camp this summer. He's an elite talent, a punishing hitter and fast. His instincts are just so-so. Overall, Clay Matthews is the biggest force and the Packers overall have a lot of talent, but the Niners win this one.

CB/S: Tramon Williams, after playing the position in 2010 possibly as well as anyone in the league, I had him rated second best pure cover corner behind Revis Island, he crashed to mediocrity in '11. Part of the problem was the nerve problem in his shoulder area that never really went away. Part of the problem was taking too many chances, biting on too many double moves and missing too many tackles. So far, so good. His level of performance in August was closer to '10 than it was '11. The opposite starter is unknown but sam shields should get most of the playing time even if he does not start. The safeties are Charles Woodson and Morgan Burnett. Charles Woodson, shifting him from outside to inside in the base defense made sense. He was becoming vulnerable trying to cover on an island. At safety, Woodson will have to play a more disciplined game. He'll also have to deal with the head-to-head collisions when he's deep and a running back breaks free inside. They're never a lot of fun, especially for a 15-year veteran. From the slot, his old stomping ground, Woodson can outwit any quarterback with his anticipation and ball skills. Morgan Burnett,Still only 23, he has a vital two-dimensional job. In base, he must mesh with Woodson, who is new to safety and has a tendency to do his own thing. In nickel and dime, he will be paired with a young player that has little or no experience. It's a lot to ask, but the Packers' hopes for Burnett are exceedingly high. With Nick Collins retired, he has to perform like a No. 1 safety. He has the skill set to be a Pro Bowler this year and I expect him to earn it. This secondary has the potential to be really good and one of the best in the league. It is unwise to judge this secondary based on last year. Tramon williams should have been placed on IR and the pass rush was non-existent.

For the Niners, all the starters hit hard and tackle well. Their issue is coverage. LC Carlos Rogers and RC Tarell Brown, a backup for four years before winning the job last year, are better playing zone than man coverage. Generally a starter from 2005-'10 in Washington, Rogers is crafty, skilled and smooth. His hands are shaky. Brown, who paid his dues on special teams, is a tough guy with adequate speed. On passing downs, Rogers moves to the slot and either Chris Culliver or Perrish Cox will play LC. Culliver, a third-round pick in '11, runs well (4.38) but is more of a finesse player and has been picked on. Cox slipped to the fifth round in '10 because of off-field issues but had an eye-opening camp. His talent is undeniable. FS Dashon Goldson, a four-year starter, comes off a Pro Bowl season. He can run and makes big plays but in searching for kill shots sometimes will blow his responsibility. SS Donte Whitner, the eighth pick in '06 as a Bill, uses his aggressiveness best in the box. The secondary is talented but needs to do a much better job in coverage. Overall, I give the nod to Packers here.

ST: Packers have an up in coming Punter, a legit kicker and a potential superstar returner in Cobb.

The 49ers led the NFL here last season under Brad Seely, a highly successful special-teams coach for 23 years. P Andy Lee, who set the league record for net average (44.0), and K David Akers, who was 7 for 9 from 50-plus, were the Pro Bowl specialists. Lee bombs the ball. Akers, 37, spent 12 productive years in Philadelphia. With the dynamic Ginn (ankle) probably out, erratic Kyle Williams figures as the dual returner. I give the packers the nod with ginn out.

My take is the packers will win by 10 points. This match will be determined by how LT Marshall Newhouse and, probably to a lesser extent, LG T.J. Lang will have to block Smith on Sunday. How they hold up could determine the outcome. I have to go with Green Bay, I think they will find ways to block up the pass rush to buy (Aaron) Rodgers some time. Green Bay has a quarterback who is accurate throwing against a secondary that is really physical but struggles in coverage.

I am sorry about grammer mistakes!! I tried to be as objective as I can be. I have watched every packers/niners game for the last 15 years. I attended a few niners practices but did not attend any Packers practices.