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How Unpredictable Do You think Our Offense Will Be to Defenses In 2012?

Originally posted by RogerCraig:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Frank Gore, while on the downside of his career, is still one of the top 3 backs in the league and therefore will be quite effective. We will still employ our power identity, as our OL personnel are largely maulers (especially the G's) suited for a power game. But it should clear by now that we will utilize 4 and 5 wide sets more often - not so much a "spread" offense, but more wide open looks both under center and in the gun. I think this will put all kinds of pressure on defenses and DC's. I think by mid-season this offense will be so unpredictable that defensive co-coordinators on our schedule are going to have long nights before they play us.

Thoughts?

I am thinking and I hope I totally out to lunch on this is, that he is not one of the top three backs in the league. Never was. I'd say he is somewhere between 6 and 10. Now, don't get me wrong I love the dude like a brother, but I don't believe he possess the acceleration and strength required to be a top 3 back. Above average in speed, strength and pass catching abilities, but not such that one could insist, with a straight face, that he is one of the top three.

he was voted # 28 and i think the 3rd best back by his peers. and i think they all had straight faces.
[ Edited by 99problems on Jul 9, 2012 at 10:46 AM ]
All of this "Frank has lost a step" is getting out of control! Even worse that its now become the trendy thing to say. He hasn't lost a step. The guy had 1200 yards in an offense that couldn't have been more one dimensional. By this logic Chris Johnson has lost a step then too! Ridiculous. The reason they signed Frank to an extension wasn't because lost a step. They did it so that Frank (who's still a TOP 5 RB) would be fresh later in the season when we need him most. Our RB's in this system take a pounding and clearly Frank needs help, not replacing.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Maybe I'm just a homer and giving Harbaugh too much credit... but with the peices added over this offseason, this could be the start of an innovative offense that tries to employ principles from both a power run scheme and a spread offense. One play we can line up with 2-3 TE's and try to run it down the opponents throat, and the next play we spread out 4 wide with LMJ in the back field and air it out. Allowing the game plans to attack wherever a team is weak or injured.

i think we'll be trickier than that. I mean lining up with 2-3TE screams run. I think we'll send some heavy personnel out in a heavy set, shift out of it twice, confuse the crap out of the defense, then run whatever play was scripted(or audible to a play) to attack the weakness that AS sees, whether that is run or pass...
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Frank Gore, while on the downside of his career, is still one of the top 3 backs in the league and therefore will be quite effective. We will still employ our power identity, as our OL personnel are largely maulers (especially the G's) suited for a power game. But it should clear by now that we will utilize 4 and 5 wide sets more often - not so much a "spread" offense, but more wide open looks both under center and in the gun. I think this will put all kinds of pressure on defenses and DC's. I think by mid-season this offense will be so unpredictable that defensive co-coordinators on our schedule are going to have long nights before they play us.

Thoughts?

There are two items that I think are incorrect in your post.

1) Gore is a very solid back but not top three. His place on the top 100 players list is rep and well deserved due to character, not current ability.
2) The maulers on the line are Iupati and Davis...not Boone or Kilgore (whoever wins the spot). The latter two are tenacious and Boone is not considered a road grader type. Goodwin, at this point in his career, is a brains and technique guy, and is not great against the bull rush or moving guys out.

I agree with you that the offense should be much more open this year and that will help the line a lot. They will not be limited by the number of plays everyone has down. They shouldn't need so many wham blocks or other help. Smith should be able to rely on his receivers being where they should be, which will also help the line. It is very possible that they will dissect most defenses this year as Stanford did.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jul 9, 2012 at 11:10 AM ]
Just some reasons why the 49ers should be better on offense:

1. 2nd year in the system for pretty much every starter | Roman should have a better feel for calls | Alex should be more comfortable (more audibles?) More two RB backfields with Gore and Hunter/James? More reverses, jet sweeps and trick plays? More passing to eligible OL?

2. Better WRs: Added Moss, Manningham & Jenkins | Crabtree looks like he will be better | Williams is determined to be better | Vernon is in his prime

3. Better RBs: We should carry 4 RBs... Gore, Hunter, James and Jacobs looks a lot better than Gore, Hunter, Dixon | More explosion (Hunter and James should be ready to take over for Gore in a year or so)

4.Better OL: Goodwin should step up... Staley, Iupati and Davis should all have career years. Boone might take time to adjust but he's better than Snyder IMO

5. Harbaugh and the other coaches should have the game flow down better... should be less penalties, delays of game, etc | Coach should be better at in game decisions/adjustments

6. More Speed: Added Jenkins, James, Moss, Manningham, etc. Chance for more long balls and more long runs.

7. 3rd TE: Both Byham or Reuland (whoever makes it) will offer more versatility in that they can catch the ball better than Justin Peelle along with their blocking.

8. Redzone: James, Moss, Manningham give us 3 new targets in the red zone. It's still a big question mark but it should improve.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Jul 9, 2012 at 11:19 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
There are two items that I think are incorrect in your post.

1) Gore is a very solid back but not top three. His place on the top 100 players list is rep and well deserved due to character, not current ability.
2) The maulers on the line are Iupati and Davis...not Boone or Kilgore (whoever wins the spot). The latter two are tenacious and Boone is not considered a road grader type. Goodwin, at this point in his career, is a brains and technique guy, and is not great against the bull rush or moving guys out.

I agree with you that the offense should be much more open this year and that will help the line a lot. They will not be limited by the number of plays everyone has down. They shouldn't need so many wham blocks or other help. Smith should be able to rely on his receivers being where they should be, which will also help the line. It is very possible that they will dissect most defenses this year as Stanford did.

I was under the impression that Boone was regarded as a run-blocking force coming out of the OSU.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Frank Gore, while on the downside of his career, is still one of the top 3 backs in the league and therefore will be quite effective. We will still employ our power identity, as our OL personnel are largely maulers (especially the G's) suited for a power game. But it should clear by now that we will utilize 4 and 5 wide sets more often - not so much a "spread" offense, but more wide open looks both under center and in the gun. I think this will put all kinds of pressure on defenses and DC's. I think by mid-season this offense will be so unpredictable that defensive co-coordinators on our schedule are going to have long nights before they play us.

Thoughts?

There are two items that I think are incorrect in your post.

1) Gore is a very solid back but not top three. His place on the top 100 players list is rep and well deserved due to character, not current ability.
2) The maulers on the line are Iupati and Davis...not Boone or Kilgore (whoever wins the spot). The latter two are tenacious and Boone is not considered a road grader type. Goodwin, at this point in his career, is a brains and technique guy, and is not great against the bull rush or moving guys out.

I agree with you that the offense should be much more open this year and that will help the line a lot. They will not be limited by the number of plays everyone has down. They shouldn't need so many wham blocks or other help. Smith should be able to rely on his receivers being where they should be, which will also help the line. It is very possible that they will dissect most defenses this year as Stanford did.
I know we can't deal in "its" but where do you think Gore would rank on a team like the Pats, Packs, or Giants? Where do you think we'd be if we had this team 2 or 3 years ago? The fact is that Gore has been USED, and to see him still relatively among the top backs is a testament to him as a player and his skills. You seriously undervalue Gore. You honestly think Gore is where he is based on character?Gore is respected because of his on-the-field-ability, not because people like him. In terms of the line, it was drafted and built for physicality. I think Boone is way more physical than you give him credit for.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
There are two items that I think are incorrect in your post.

1) Gore is a very solid back but not top three. His place on the top 100 players list is rep and well deserved due to character, not current ability.
2) The maulers on the line are Iupati and Davis...not Boone or Kilgore (whoever wins the spot). The latter two are tenacious and Boone is not considered a road grader type. Goodwin, at this point in his career, is a brains and technique guy, and is not great against the bull rush or moving guys out.

I agree with you that the offense should be much more open this year and that will help the line a lot. They will not be limited by the number of plays everyone has down. They shouldn't need so many wham blocks or other help. Smith should be able to rely on his receivers being where they should be, which will also help the line. It is very possible that they will dissect most defenses this year as Stanford did.

I was under the impression that Boone was regarded as a run-blocking force coming out of the OSU.
He was. But with his size and the NFL game he was taught to be a traditional tackle, which he's done quite effectively. So people have forgotten his natural physicality. But this guy wasn't extended for sh_ts and giggles. This coaching staff really wants to take full advantage of Boone's abilities, and they cannot do that with him on the bench. I see JH & Co. tapping into his Buckeye days to abuse NFL DL.
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by 99problems:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Frank Gore, while on the downside of his career, is still one of the top 3 backs in the league.

Thoughts?

My thought is that you are wrong about this.

overall backs he arguably is.

considering running, catching out the backfield, pass blocking .

he is a top 3 in my opinion.

I disagree...

RBs that I would rank above Frank:

AP (when healthy and out of trouble)
Ray Rice
MJD

RBs that I would rank equivalent to Frank:
Lynch
McFadden
Foster

Frank has excellent vision, possibly the best the NFL. He is a SOLID pass-catcher, but had 7 drops and his pass catching was not really utilized last year. He's great at running between the tackles, but at his age he lacks the top-end speed to take it to the house.

In my opinion, Frank is a top 10 RB, not a top 3.
Adrian Peterson and Maurice Jones-Drew are the only backs I'd but before Gore, maybe Ray Rice - not lower in my mind. But I don't want to loose site of the purpose of this thread. If you don't think Gore is a top 3 RB, fine. I just want to stay on topic.
The expression road-grader does tend to get a bit muddied down, but I would absolutely be shocked if Boone is not a road-grader at RG. Roag-grader to me gets attached to OL that can run block and drive their man off the LOS well. That's exactly what I'd expect of Boone. Snyder, on the other hand, was only able to wall-off defenders and keep em busy. Rarely did he push his man to the 2nd level. Boone should be a big upgrade, but he has to remember to play low for leverage.

As 9LIC stated, Boone had to ease back a bit on the aggression to get his feet wet as a pro OT, but he has every bit of the nasty and strength to drive fools off the ball. Bet his stamina is top-notch now also. Boone's only struggles will be with RayMac/Justin types that can penetrate and get him turned side-ways from a positional standpoint. That can happen if Boone gets beat on the snap and has to recover. He does have the great wing-span to help himself here.. but we'll have to see how disciplined he is at staying low and how quickly he gets off the snap.
To answer your topic question - IMO, we'll be VERY unpredictable as the game dictates.

If we can run the ball effectively then we'll be running it - but in various ways and disguises.

We now have the personnel and the same offense that improvements will come much sooner. That will allow more creativity then being stuck and having to use a trick play to get out of a problem.

I think the combinations we use will overwhelm opposing defenses.

As far as Gore being a top 3 RB - I don't care, it's almost meaningless. He's still VERY solid and a high performer.

When [NOT IF] JH starts the creative game calling the RB will get their yards, the Receivers will get their catches and the 49ers will get their next Super Bowl.
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
I was under the impression that Boone was regarded as a run-blocking force coming out of the OSU.

All these guys were good blockers in college but Boone is not known as a compact type ground force, but a lanky all around blocker and was very good at pass blocking. One draft site had him rated as a first rounder before his off field troubles. 6'7 or 6'8 and 300 pounds--fairly light for the height.


Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I know we can't deal in "its" but where do you think Gore would rank on a team like the Pats, Packs, or Giants? Where do you think we'd be if we had this team 2 or 3 years ago? The fact is that Gore has been USED, and to see him still relatively among the top backs is a testament to him as a player and his skills. You seriously undervalue Gore. You honestly think Gore is where he is based on character?Gore is respected because of his on-the-field-ability, not because people like him. In terms of the line, it was drafted and built for physicality. I think Boone is way more physical than you give him credit for.

No, I value Gore as a very good back who can do most things well. What I don't think he can do any more is break free for long TDs. He gets caught from behind now, whereas he often scored when he was younger. Either DBs are faster, he is slower or both.

As for guys voting for Gore, it is mainly due to his career as a whole, partly his reputation with players--which I consider character. Don't think any fair minded analyst would list him as a top five RB...unless talking about his career...not last year. It is a shame the 9ers were putrid during his best years and he had to wait so long for a winner...hope he can reach the super bowl this year and have at least one ring.

Boone was an excellent run blocker in college and pass protected equally as well. He was known as a film room junky, very bright and excellent technique. But as far as being a mauler...don't think so. He was very good at down-field blocking in space according to scouts. Used leverage very well. Compare his 6'8 300 pound frame to Iupati's 6'5 333 pounds...different body type than the graders normally have. And I'm not saying he isn't physical...just more of a technique/leverage guy than a bull.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I know we can't deal in "its" but where do you think Gore would rank on a team like the Pats, Packs, or Giants? Where do you think we'd be if we had this team 2 or 3 years ago? The fact is that Gore has been USED, and to see him still relatively among the top backs is a testament to him as a player and his skills. You seriously undervalue Gore. You honestly think Gore is where he is based on character?Gore is respected because of his on-the-field-ability, not because people like him. In terms of the line, it was drafted and built for physicality. I think Boone is way more physical than you give him credit for.

Many fans around here for some reason don't appreciate Frank Gores talent. He was ranked as a top running back by his peers because of his character? That is straight up laughable. He is among the top 5-7 rushers every year in rushing and scrimmage yards, he has never averaged under 4.2 yards per carry in his entire career, he had the 3rd most explosive runs (over 20 yards) in the entire league last year and we rode our running game all the way to the NFC championship. Yet for some reason people on the web zone call him a "solid but not elite back". I am sorry, but Frank Gore is elite. He may have lost a step but he is still arguably one of the 5 best running backs in the entire NFL and one of the ONLY backs who can play all 3 downs, get the tough yards and the big play, block and catch. That type of player is a rarity in the NFL and always has been.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Many fans around here for some reason don't appreciate Frank Gores talent. He was ranked as a top running back by his peers because of his character? That is straight up laughable. He is among the top 5-7 rushers every year in rushing and scrimmage yards, he has never averaged under 4.2 yards per carry in his entire career, he had the 3rd most explosive runs (over 20 yards) in the entire league last year and we rode our running game all the way to the NFC championship. Yet for some reason people on the web zone call him a "solid but not elite back". I am sorry, but Frank Gore is elite. He may have lost a step but he is still arguably one of the 5 best running backs in the entire NFL and one of the ONLY backs who can play all 3 downs, get the tough yards and the big play, block and catch. That type of player is a rarity in the NFL and always has been.

By character I was referring to overall career respect that he has earned from his peers...not being a nice guy. Made that clear in my post above. But as far as not valuing Gore...nothing of the sort...just do not rate him top three currently. Was he top three a few years ago? Yes. But now, when he breaks through the line, instead of jumping out of my seat because I expect him to score from anywhere on the field, I wonder when and who is going to catch him from behind.

Is he still a very good player? Yes...just not as great (or elite) as he use to be. Happens to them all, sadly.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
The expression road-grader does tend to get a bit muddied down, but I would absolutely be shocked if Boone is not a road-grader at RG. Roag-grader to me gets attached to OL that can run block and drive their man off the LOS well. That's exactly what I'd expect of Boone. Snyder, on the other hand, was only able to wall-off defenders and keep em busy. Rarely did he push his man to the 2nd level. Boone should be a big upgrade, but he has to remember to play low for leverage.

As 9LIC stated, Boone had to ease back a bit on the aggression to get his feet wet as a pro OT, but he has every bit of the nasty and strength to drive fools off the ball. Bet his stamina is top-notch now also. Boone's only struggles will be with RayMac/Justin types that can penetrate and get him turned side-ways from a positional standpoint. That can happen if Boone gets beat on the snap and has to recover. He does have the great wing-span to help himself here.. but we'll have to see how disciplined he is at staying low and how quickly he gets off the snap.

You may be correct oldman, but when I think of a road grader my image is of a power guy, not a lanky all around lineman. I see Boone as better than a grader as he can block down-field, pass-block and pull. Just a difference in definition probably. You mention road graders as all around linemen, whereas I think of them as one dimensional.