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Do we have the most talent in the NFL?

Do we have the most talent in the NFL?

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
The most? Idk its possible

taking off the the niner glasses

are we more talented than
Phili, NYG, Texans, Falcons, Ravens?

Not saying we are or we arn't but its close

The Falcons? Dude they're not even in the conversation.

Just break it down by position group. None of those teams has as much top tier talent at more position groups than the Niners.

I'm not being any kind of homer here, it is what it is. And I'm not including coaching as "talent" either. The talent on this team is extremely deep in a lot of facets.

Who has a deeper RB core?

Who has better TEs as a group?

Who has a deeper WR core?

Who has a better LB core?

Who has a better front 7?

Who has a deeper secondary?

Perhaps certain teams have better talent at a certain position group, but when you add them all together, ask yourself truly who has more talent?
[ Edited by AXEGRINDER on Jul 4, 2012 at 6:34 PM ]
No I don't think so.

On defense probably. Offense holds us back.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
The Falcons? Dude they're not even in the conversation.

Just break it down by position group. None of those teams has as much top tier talent at more position groups than the Niners.

I'm not being any kind of homer here, it is what it is. And I'm not including coaching as "talent" either. The talent on this team is extremely deep in a lot of facets.

Who has a deeper RB core?

Who has better TEs as a group?

Who has a deeper WR core?

Who has a better LB core?

Who has a better front 7?

Who has a deeper secondary?

Perhaps certain teams have better talent at a certain position group, but when you add them all together, ask yourself truly who has more talent?

You're really homering up for this one.

RB? I'd take the Texans there and several other teams honestly. Gore is getting old and James hasn't proven anything yet. Jacobs needs to prove he can still play well. Giants fans weren't sad to see him go for a reason.

WR? You can't be serious. We're probably not in the top 10 there until these guys prove something.

TE? Davis and Walker are definitely up there but the Patriots take this one

Front 7 I'd say the niners have the best. I think this year will prove that.

Secondary there are several teams who have a claim to that. I'd say Seattle even has a better secondary than us and that's just within the division.
Originally posted by genus49:
You're really homering up for this one.

RB? I'd take the Texans there and several other teams honestly. Gore is getting old and James hasn't proven anything yet. Jacobs needs to prove he can still play well. Giants fans weren't sad to see him go for a reason.

WR? You can't be serious. We're probably not in the top 10 there until these guys prove something.

TE? Davis and Walker are definitely up there but the Patriots take this one

Front 7 I'd say the niners have the best. I think this year will prove that.

Secondary there are several teams who have a claim to that. I'd say Seattle even has a better secondary than us and that's just within the division.

You're not understanding.

I'm not comparing individual position groups to other teams. Sure individualy other teams may have better talent. It's the whole that I'm looking at. Ask yourself this: what teams have more talent at more positions than the Niners? And I'm not sure you quite understand what "talent" means. Talent doesn't necessarily have to "proven" in the context we're talking about here, just ask the Cowboys. People have been calling them the most talented team for several years now, and they haven't proven s**t.
[ Edited by AXEGRINDER on Jul 4, 2012 at 7:13 PM ]
There are no weak links on this 49er team. Coach Harbaugh has stressed competition since day one and it shows in the depth chart. Baalke has an eye for talent and Coach knows how to use it.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
You're not understanding.

I'm not comparing individual position groups to other teams. Sure individualy other teams may have better talent. It's the whole that I'm looking at. Ask yourself this: what teams have more talent at more positions than the Niners? And I'm not sure you quite understand what "talent" means. Talent doesn't necessarily have to "proven" in the context we're talking about here, just ask the Cowboys. People have been calling them the most talented team for several years now, and they haven't proven s**t.

Fair enough but I think if we're going by unproven thing then Packers still take it. Especially with the boost Aaron Rodgers gives them at the most important position.
Originally posted by ItsKapTime:
Alex Smith > Trent Dilfer

Shame the rules make it a lot tougher for defenses to stop opposing passing games.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
You're not understanding.

I'm not comparing individual position groups to other teams. Sure individualy other teams may have better talent. It's the whole that I'm looking at. Ask yourself this: what teams have more talent at more positions than the Niners? And I'm not sure you quite understand what "talent" means. Talent doesn't necessarily have to "proven" in the context we're talking about here, just ask the Cowboys. People have been calling them the most talented team for several years now, and they haven't proven s**t.

Fair enough but I think if we're going by unproven thing then Packers still take it. Especially with the boost Aaron Rodgers gives them at the most important position.

You may be correct but our defense.........well we can debate this forever.
[ Edited by AXEGRINDER on Jul 4, 2012 at 7:46 PM ]
We have the best defense.

On offense, I'd have to go with New Orleans, Green Bay, and New England.
Who has a deeper RB core? I think the Panthers can make a good case. Just one team there off the top of my head.

Who has better TEs as a group? Patriots make a pretty good case. I think Vernon is probably more dangerous than Gronk, but let's face it - the guy has always had inconsistent hands and in the past he's made mental errors that cost. Can't ignore those. Hernandez is clearly a better receiver than Walker. Walker is a good blocking back, not bad inline but not ideally suited to picking up DL. Hernandez has the size to block those guys although he's rarely asked to do it.

Who has a deeper WR core? If Moss is like the old NE Moss and Crabtree steps up and plays like a legit #1 and so on and so forth - our WR corps might be able to make the case. But those things haven't happen and may not happen. I am very optimistic about our prospects this year, but I want to see it happen before anointing them. The Eagles, Patriots, Falcons, Lions and Saints all make a pretty good case based on recent history however.


Who has a better LB core? No one does, although there are some pretty good groups out there.

Who has a better front 7? No one overall IMO, although the Giants DL is stacked. They are of course more suited to a 4-3 although I think most of their guys could easily transition. Tuck and JPP are both large and very athletic.

Who has a deeper secondary? I love our corners, but I think our safties are a bit of a weak link in coverage. I think the Seahawks can make a very legit claim here. Thomas covers a lot of ground @ FS and their top 3 corners are also good like ours. They are all good against the run as well etc. I do think Culliver can be one of the best corners in the league based on what he did last year, but he needs to continue to develop and stay focused. He isn't there yet. I know Goldson is opportunistic, but he gave up a lot of plays last year too. Thomas is very good in coverage comparatively. Less opportunistic last year, more disciplined. Better angles, better tackler, faster etc.
[ Edited by Evilgenius on Jul 5, 2012 at 1:15 AM ]
To follow up since I see you are going by the whole, you can make a very strong argument for the Niners. I think our OL on the right side - if they can become consistently above average and Moss can still play, and I think he can, then we make a very strong case for overall most talented team in the league.
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Originally posted by jdt84_2:
Originally posted by RogerCraig:
The lack of talent at the QB position is our only weakness as far as I can determine.


It's the cold hard truth, and it's inescapable. -Right now we're the '00 Ravens, but with a franchise QB we'd be the 1984 49ers.

More like a pile of steaming hot b******t...with a couple of flies buzzing over it.
I think we are more stacked at overall talent this year; but I think to understand what the OP is asking we need to attempt to quantify our talent. Here is a quick stab at it.

Using a number system 1-5; 1 being the worst and 5 the best.

QB: 3
Ron Jaworski has Alex as #16 out of 32 QB's. That's halfway, so 3 seems fitting.

RB: 4
Gore is getting older; however, we have Hunter who had a very good year last year and will only improve. Depth in Jacobs and our unknown LaMichael James. If James can prove to be as dangerous as Sproles, this number goes to 5.

OL: 3
Until we get solid depth behind C and a proven RG, this unit is incomplete. I am hopeful that Boone can solidify the RG position and that one of the young OL can be a trustworthy C backup.

WR: 3
Until this unit proves it, they are what they were last year. Middle of the pack. I expect this group to be at least a 4 this year.

TE: 5
I am not saying our TE's are better than NE, but they are just as good. Vernon can do things that Gronk can not, run really fast. Also, Vernon can block anyone, I am not so sure about Gronk, he is not as agile as Vernon. Walker and Hernandez are equal in my opinion.

DL: 5
No explanation needed, JS makes this group.

LB: 5
Willis and Bowman are the best in the game, if Aldon can improve on what he did last year, he is going to make this defense even better.

S: 4
Although coverage is somewhat of a weakness, Goldson is no slouch in the backfield. He was amongst the leaders in INT's last year, top 5 if I recall. Whitner is a SS and is relied on more for the line of scrimage. They are better than middle of the pack, but not the best

CB: 4
I think this group is pretty solid. We don't have a household name like Bailey or Revis, but they are pretty good.

So added up that's 36/45

Now do the same thing with the Eagles, Texans, Ravens, Pats, etc... I think we would find that we are up in the top 5 of all teams.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
More like a pile of steaming hot b******t...with a couple of flies buzzing over it.

Yep.. this. If we were to grade each spot Madden-style? It would look like this...
(hey, I'm bored this morning.. not much content around the forums... copy and paste, FTW)

QB - Alex Smith (85), Colin Kaepernick (73), Josh Johnson (70), Scott Tolzein (68)
RB - Frank Gore (90), Brandon Jacobs (81), Kendall Hunter (79), LaMichael James (77)
FB - Bruce Miller (78)

TE - Vernon Davis (94), Delanie Walker (79), Nate Byham (65), Konrad Reuland (63)
SE - Randy Moss ? (86), Mario Manningham (82), Joe Hastings (65), Bryan Tyms (62)
FL - Michael Crabtree (84), Kyle Williams (78), Nathan Palmer (64)
SL - A.J. Jenkins (74), Teddy Ginn Jr. (74), Chris Owusu (64)

LT - Joe Staley (85), Mike Person (66)
LG - Mike Iupati (85), Garrett Chisolm (60), Al Netter (58)
OC - Jon Goodwin (79), Jason Slowey (60), Chase Beeler (60)
RG - Alex Boone? (75), Daniel Kilgore (68), Joe Looney (64)
RT - Anthony Davis (77), Derek Hall (64)

RE - Justin Smith (99), Demarcus Dobbs (72), Matt Masifilo (57)
NT - Isaac Sopoaga (90), Ricky Jean-Francois (80), Ian Williams (69)
LE - Ray McDonald (90), Will Tukuafu (70)

WLB - Aldon Smith (87), Parys Haralson (79), Kourtnei Brown (60)
MLB - Navarro Bowman (87), Tavares Gooden (70)
MLB - Patrick Willis (97), Larry Grant (80)
SLB - Ahmad Brooks (84), Cam Johnson (68)

LCB - Carlos Rogers (90)
RCB - Tarell Brown (85), Tramaine Brock (70)
NCB - Chris Culliver (83), Perrish Cox (75)

FS - Dashon Goldson (88), C.J. Spillman (79), Trenton Robinson (71)
SS - Donte Whitner (88), Colin Jones (72)

LS - Brian Jennings (93)
K - Davis Akers (95)
P - Andy Lee (105)


The biggest weaknesses (or at least uncertainties) on the right side of the OL.
The only group the 9ers have that may be the best in the NFL are LBs. Other than that their strength is in having no weaknesses. And of course, coaches! Those of you who play fantasy football will probably acknowledge that other teams have players you would take ahead of the niners except for Willis and perhaps J Smith.

Other players who may become the best at their positions: Iupati, Moss, Bowman, and Aldon Smith. Any others?