ABs 2nd 53 man and 8 man P-Squad roster prediciton

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I know, but Jacobs has a history of being unhappy about playing time, so he would be upset. I would put Hunter on actives, he has more ability to break a run or pass caught.

its a small possibility but I have a glimmer of hope that dixon will see the jacobs signing as a threat. for the good of the team i think dixon , with his special teams ability and youth would be best.i would really like to see him work hard, bust his ass and beat jacobs for a spot.Like i said,, that is a small glimmer of hope. Also not sure why so many people are so quick to cut the rock.way to valuable , way to versatile

Originally posted by nw9erfan:
I think one big aspect to this discussion which is really being overlooked is this....

Remember...the Rams are second in line to pick up any players the Niners cast off.

So....do you all want to see Kyle Williams go to the Rams next season and possibly be their starting slot receiver? I don't. He may have muffed a couple of punts but he is a very quick guy with some breakaway speed. In fact, I re-watched some of the SF-NY Championship game and he nearly broke one punt return (I think in the third quarter)... Slipped on the turf. If he doesn't, he likely goes the distance. This is probably why Harbaugh gave him the green light on returns in the fourth quarter and OT.

The Niners are surely being eyed by a number of those "bottom-feeding" teams because they all know SF has a very stocked roster already and are going to have to cut some talented guys. This makes the decision of who to cut and who not to cut even more complex....and a big reason why I think Kyle makes the Niners' 53.

Going further, I think it will be very difficult for the Niners to even stock their practice squad this next year without losing some guys. Do they really think they can waive guys like Slowey, Palmer, Reuland, or Hampton for example, and not have any team bite all year? I wonder...

Your thoughts?

You cannot worry about losing a player when you have the potential to get to the play offs, and are hoping to be playing deep in the play offs. The team needs to put the best team on the field every week, and have back ups in place in case of injury. This makes players who are veratile a premium. Special Teams, a two way player like Tukafu will probably make the roster.

Having any of the cast offs on other teams is a fact of life. The Niners poached the Patriots PS and those players started right away in the dark salary cap days.

Reuland was an UDFA who was on the PS last year, so i do not understand the fear he would be signed off the PS.
Slowey was not invited to the combine.
Jewel Hampton was an UDFA, meaning all 32 teams passed on him 7 times or more.

I think you are overvaluing the above players. All of them will probably not make the team and be on the PS.

Originally posted by 9erred:
You cannot worry about losing a player when you have the potential to get to the play offs, and are hoping to be playing deep in the play offs. The team needs to put the best team on the field every week, and have back ups in place in case of injury. This makes players who are veratile a premium. Special Teams, a two way player like Tukafu will probably make the roster.

Having any of the cast offs on other teams is a fact of life. The Niners poached the Patriots PS and those players started right away in the dark salary cap days.

Reuland was an UDFA who was on the PS last year, so i do not understand the fear he would be signed off the PS.
Slowey was not invited to the combine.
Jewel Hampton was an UDFA, meaning all 32 teams passed on him 7 times or more.

I think you are overvaluing the above players. All of them will probably not make the team and be on the PS.

Good post! The 9ers are now in a position where their castoffs will be better than many starting players on other teams. Just the way the NFL is set up and, as you stated, the 9ers profitted from this over the years.

The trick, if it can be accomplished, is to trade the better surplus players for late round draft picks so you can deliver them to teams of your choosing. Happens once in while but most teams will wait. A guy like Williams has many doubts about him but teams may use a 6th or 7th rounder on him if they really need a WR. But they may also wait for Palmer or Owusu.

If teams lose a bunch of players at one position during TC they may be more active in trading. SF has now lost their two OLBer rookies to surgery. Is that real? Or are they doing minor surgeries to hide these guys? So many games are played this time of year! But it's good to be a niner fan!

Originally posted by cools:
I think Hampton ends up taking Jacobs spot, at some point.
Good inside runner with power, quickness and vision

Harbs will eventually turn the RB position into a group of 3 or 4 RB's that share the season load
James, Hunter and Hampton seem like a fantastic combination

Hampton isn't making the team

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
First thoughts, I cut Haralson as I did with my first go around, because his salary is too high to keep, wouldn't leave us any cap room to breathe with.

I also cut Tolzien, and don't expect him to clear waivers, if so he is brought back for P-Squad.

But here it is, my 2nd go at the 53 man and 8 man P-Squad.

2012 Roster:

QB(3): 11 Alex Smith, Tolzien, 7 Colin Kaepernick,
RB(4): 21 Frank Gore, 45 Brandon Jacobs, 32 Kendall Hunter, 23 LaMichael James
FB(1): 49 Bruce Miller
WR(5): 15 Michael Crabtree, 84 Randy Moss, 14 Mario Manningham, Kyle Williams, 17 A.J. Jenkins
TE(2): 85 Vernon Davis, 46 Delanie Walker
C(2): 59 Jonathan Goodwin, Jason Slowey
OG(4): 77 Mike Iupati, 75 Alex Boone, 67 Daniel Kilgore, 66 Joe Looney
OT(3): 74 Joe Staley, 76 Anthony Davis, Leonard Davis (I think Boone swings to tackle and Davis takes over at guard if injury occurs)
DE(4): 94 Justin Smith, 91 Ray McDonald, 92 Will Tukuafu, 96 Demarcus Dobbs
NT(3): 90 Isaac Sopoaga, 95 Ricky Jean Francois, 93 Ian Williams
OLB(5): 55 Ahmad Brooks, 99 Aldon Smith, Haralson, 0 Eric Bakhtiari, Cam Johnson
ILB(3): 52 Patrick Willis, 53 NaVorro Bowman, 54 Larry Grant,
CB(5): 22 Carlos Rogers, 25 Tarell Brown, 29 Chris Culliver, 20 Perrish Cox, 26 Tramaine Brock
S(4): 38 Dashon Goldson, 31 Donte Whitner, 27 C.J. Spillman, 30 Trenton Robinson

ST(5): 2 David Akers, 4 Andy Lee, 86 Brian Jennings, 19 Ted Ginn Jr., 28 Rock Cartwright,

I modified your chart and bolded the guys I think make the roster that weren't there.

I think the final spot is between Cam Johnson and Tavares Gooden.

I'm not sure if AB is planning on updating this before the final cuts are made, but Haralson being cut and Hunter being a gameday inactive are both laughable predictions. Other than that, list seems ok.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
First thoughts, I cut Haralson as I did with my first go around, because his salary is too high to keep, wouldn't leave us any cap room to breathe with.

I also cut Tolzien, and don't expect him to clear waivers, if so he is brought back for P-Squad.

But here it is, my 2nd go at the 53 man and 8 man P-Squad.

2012 Roster:

QB(3): 11 Alex Smith, Tolzien, 7 Colin Kaepernick,
RB(4): 21 Frank Gore, 45 Brandon Jacobs, 32 Kendall Hunter, 23 LaMichael James
FB(1): 49 Bruce Miller
WR(5): 15 Michael Crabtree, 84 Randy Moss, 14 Mario Manningham, Kyle Williams, 17 A.J. Jenkins
TE(2): 85 Vernon Davis, 46 Delanie Walker
C(2): 59 Jonathan Goodwin, Jason Slowey
OG(4): 77 Mike Iupati, 75 Alex Boone, 67 Daniel Kilgore, 66 Joe Looney
OT(3): 74 Joe Staley, 76 Anthony Davis, Leonard Davis (I think Boone swings to tackle and Davis takes over at guard if injury occurs)
DE(4): 94 Justin Smith, 91 Ray McDonald, 92 Will Tukuafu, 96 Demarcus Dobbs
NT(3): 90 Isaac Sopoaga, 95 Ricky Jean Francois, 93 Ian Williams
OLB(5): 55 Ahmad Brooks, 99 Aldon Smith, Haralson, 0 Eric Bakhtiari, Cam Johnson
ILB(3): 52 Patrick Willis, 53 NaVorro Bowman, 54 Larry Grant,
CB(5): 22 Carlos Rogers, 25 Tarell Brown, 29 Chris Culliver, 20 Perrish Cox, 26 Tramaine Brock
S(4): 38 Dashon Goldson, 31 Donte Whitner, 27 C.J. Spillman, 30 Trenton Robinson

ST(5): 2 David Akers, 4 Andy Lee, 86 Brian Jennings, 19 Ted Ginn Jr., 28 Rock Cartwright,

I modified your chart and bolded the guys I think make the roster that weren't there.

I think the final spot is between Cam Johnson and Tavares Gooden.

That is pretty much how I see it as well.

By this time, I believe the coaches have 50 of the 53 already settled. The balance of PS will be to settle the final 3. The practice squad will be where the big competition occurs. There are some pretty talented guys that will wind up somewhere in the league if the don't make it here.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
I'm not sure if AB is planning on updating this before the final cuts are made, but Haralson being cut and Hunter being a gameday inactive are both laughable predictions. Other than that, list seems ok.

I've been doing scenarios, and the way I see it, is Haralson can basically rip up his deal, eliminate 2013, lower his base in 2012 to minimum and just play on that, if not, we will be around 1M at most under heading into season, and that's never a good idea, with injuries, and such.

Remember only the top 51 salaries count, so salaries 52- whatever, including 8 PS, IR, PUP, NFI, etc.. count when season starts, so it will be tough. I wouldn't be surprised if Haralson is cut.

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
I'm not sure if AB is planning on updating this before the final cuts are made, but Haralson being cut and Hunter being a gameday inactive are both laughable predictions. Other than that, list seems ok.

I've been doing scenarios, and the way I see it, is Haralson can basically rip up his deal, eliminate 2013, lower his base in 2012 to minimum and just play on that, if not, we will be around 1M at most under heading into season, and that's never a good idea, with injuries, and such.

Remember only the top 51 salaries count, so salaries 52- whatever, including 8 PS, IR, PUP, NFI, etc.. count when season starts, so it will be tough. I wouldn't be surprised if Haralson is cut.

it has always, seemed , AB, that you and i were the only ones around here who had any love for rock. i would like to think that most fans saw from him last night what you and i already know.. captain of special teams, good running back in a pinch and a good backup kick returner, plus a great locker room vet, way to important to cut

Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
I'm not sure if AB is planning on updating this before the final cuts are made, but Haralson being cut and Hunter being a gameday inactive are both laughable predictions. Other than that, list seems ok.

I've been doing scenarios, and the way I see it, is Haralson can basically rip up his deal, eliminate 2013, lower his base in 2012 to minimum and just play on that, if not, we will be around 1M at most under heading into season, and that's never a good idea, with injuries, and such.

Remember only the top 51 salaries count, so salaries 52- whatever, including 8 PS, IR, PUP, NFI, etc.. count when season starts, so it will be tough. I wouldn't be surprised if Haralson is cut.

From a financial point, I can see this. I think he would clearly be the best backup at OLB, but the younger guys would probably be better at ST. I really liked what Bakhiatari brought last night. If he continues, it would be hard to not keep him. I just don't know we let go a solid backup at OLB and leave it up to unknowns.

Originally posted by dj43:
That is pretty much how I see it as well.

By this time, I believe the coaches have 50 of the 53 already settled. The balance of PS will be to settle the final 3. The practice squad will be where the big competition occurs. There are some pretty talented guys that will wind up somewhere in the league if the don't make it here.

I think these guys are pretty much on the 53 man roster right now.

QB(2)- Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick
RB(5)- Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter, Brandon Jacobs, LaMichael James and Rock Cartwright
FB(1)- Bruce MIller
WR(6)- Randy Moss, Michael Crabtree, Mario Manningham, AJ Jenkins, Kyle Williams and Ted Ginn Jr.
TE(2)- Vernon Davis and Delanie Walker
C(1)- Jonathan Goodwin
OG(3)- Mike Iupati, Alex Boone and Daniel Kilgore
OT(3)- Joe Staley, Anthony Davis and Mike Person

DE(4)- Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Demarcus Dobbs and Will Tukuafu
NT(2)- Isaac Sopoaga and Ricky Jean Francois
OLB(2)- Ahmad Brooks and Aldon Smith (Parys Haralson if he takes a pay cut)
ILB(4)- Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Larry Grant and Tavares Gooden
CB(3)- Carlos Rogers, Tarell Brown and Chris Culliver
S(3)- Dashon Goldson, Donte Whitner and CJ Spillman

PK(1)- David Akers
P(1)- Andy Lee
LS(1)- Brian Jennings

That is a total of 43 spots locked up.

Players who are vying for remaining 10 spots would be.

QB- Josh Johnson and Scott Tolzien
WR- Nathan Palmer, Chris Owusu and Brian Tyms (Would need to unset Kyle Williams some how)
TE- Nate Byham and Konrad Reuland
C- Jason Slowey
OG- Joe Looney and Leonard Davis
OLB- Eric Bakhtiari, Parys Haralson and Cam Johnson
NT- Ian Williams
CB- Perrish Cox, Tramaine Brock and Darcel McBath
S- Trenton Robinson, Colin Jones and Michael Thomas

That's 20 players vying for 10 spots.

Guys with long shot right now would be.

RB- Anthony Dixon
FB- Cameron Bell
WR- Brett Swain, and Joe Hastings
TE- Garrett Celek
C- Chase Beeler
OG- Kenny Wiggins and Garrett Chisolm
OT- Derek Hall
DE- Patrick Butrym, Matthew Masifilo and Tony Jerod-Eddie
OLB - Kourtnei Brown
ILB- Michael Wilhoite
CB- Anthony Mosley, Ben Hannula and Deante Purvis
S- Mark LeGree
PK- Girogio Tavecchio
LS- Kyle Nelson

To me, these guys have little to no chance to make team. Jacobs proved he is better than Dixon last night, and the rest were camp fodder.

Obviously a lot of these guys make it because of salaries, either ton of guaranteed, making it unlikely of cuts, like Manningham and Alex, who's deals are guaranteed for 2012.

QB- Josh Johnson and Scott Tolzien
WR- Nathan Palmer, Chris Owusu and Brian Tyms (Would need to unset Kyle Williams some how)
TE- Nate Byham and Konrad Reuland
C- Jason Slowey
OG- Joe Looney and Leonard Davis
OLB- Eric Bakhtiari, Parys Haralson and Cam Johnson
NT- Ian Williams
CB- Perrish Cox, Tramaine Brock and Darcel McBath
S- Trenton Robinson, Colin Jones and Michael Thomas

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I think these guys are pretty much on the 53 man roster right now.

QB(2)- Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick
RB(5)- Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter, Brandon Jacobs, LaMichael James and Rock Cartwright
FB(1)- Bruce MIller
WR(6)- Randy Moss, Michael Crabtree, Mario Manningham, AJ Jenkins, Kyle Williams and Ted Ginn Jr.
TE(2)- Vernon Davis and Delanie Walker
C(1)- Jonathan Goodwin
OG(3)- Mike Iupati, Alex Boone and Daniel Kilgore
OT(3)- Joe Staley, Anthony Davis and Mike Person

DE(4)- Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Demarcus Dobbs and Will Tukuafu
NT(2)- Isaac Sopoaga and Ricky Jean Francois
OLB(2)- Ahmad Brooks and Aldon Smith (Parys Haralson if he takes a pay cut)
ILB(4)- Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Larry Grant and Tavares Gooden
CB(3)- Carlos Rogers, Tarell Brown and Chris Culliver
S(3)- Dashon Goldson, Donte Whitner and CJ Spillman

PK(1)- David Akers
P(1)- Andy Lee
LS(1)- Brian Jennings

That is a total of 43 spots locked up.

Players who are vying for remaining 10 spots would be.

QB- Josh Johnson and Scott Tolzien
WR- Nathan Palmer, Chris Owusu and Brian Tyms (Would need to unset Kyle Williams some how)
TE- Nate Byham and Konrad Reuland
C- Jason Slowey
OG- Joe Looney and Leonard Davis
OLB- Eric Bakhtiari, Parys Haralson and Cam Johnson
NT- Ian Williams
CB- Perrish Cox, Tramaine Brock and Darcel McBath
S- Trenton Robinson, Colin Jones and Michael Thomas

I agree except I think Cox is a lock as well. And my understanding was Kilgore was practicing at Center?? Maybe they keep just Kilgore as back-up for Guard and Center?

Although it seem tough to cut someone - I just don't see how they keep all the RBs - I see Rock may get cut or LMJ goes to PS.

Also, although they signed Ginn, by the end of camp with all the potential talent at returner - Cox, Williams, Owusu, LMJ, I see Ginn my well be let go.

Lastly, as much as I love the atheticism of Davis and Walker, I wish they would see the value of the "garbage man" TE to the QB and keeping drives alive.

Rock Cartwright should not be counted as a lock. Keeping three 30 year old runningbacks is ill-advised when you are as strapped for roster space as we are. I would cut Cartwright over Tolzien any day. Atleast Tolzien would be the best option to lead this team if Alex went down and has longterm potential. It would take multiple injuries for Cartwright to have an impact and he has no future beyond this season.

Swain >>> Moss