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ABs 2nd 53 man and 8 man P-Squad roster prediciton

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I dont see a need for a 6th WR, we didn't keep 6 last year, and we only had 4 of the 5 active on game days.

Haralson makes too much, if kept we lose $2.77M in cap room, we need room for emergencies, can't go in with 1.7M or less, won't work.

Anyone we sign in an emergency will come at the vet minimum. There is no chance at all that Haralson gets cut at his salary - unless of course the young guys out play him. The latter is very unlikely. Haralson is one of the best run stuffing OLB's in the league.
[ Edited by Evilgenius on May 30, 2012 at 10:23 PM ]
Originally posted by Evilgenius:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I dont see a need for a 6th WR, we didn't keep 6 last year, and we only had 4 of the 5 active on game days.

Haralson makes too much, if kept we lose $2.77M in cap room, we need room for emergencies, can't go in with 1.7M or less, won't work.

Anyone we sign in an emergency will come at the vet minimum. There is no chance at all that Haralson gets cut at his salary - unless of course the young guys out play him. The latter is very unlikely. Haralson is one of the best run stuffing OLB's in the league.

Not that easy to just keep a player and only have under 1.3M to use. If you end up signing players to league minimum deals, you would sign only 3 guys, at $390K each. The way we are, our front office won't go in risking cap space.

I understand Haralson is a good player, but facts are his salary is TOO high. He isn't a starter, and isn't a special teams player. Guys like Grant and Gooden, who make less combined play Special teams.

Also we are under by 3.7M right now, BUT it is only for top 51 salaries, when season starts the entire team counts(53 man, PS, IR, PUP) meaning less and less cap space.

I've said before, restructuring deals isnt a good idea, just pushes money back, when cap isnt known for 2013 and beyond. The new TV deal may or may not help the cap. If owners get there ways the cap will always be 120M range.
The cap is going to explode in a couple years when the TV deal comes through. No, they won't be cutting Haralson. I can see them attempting to extend someone though (ie: Justin Smith).

As far as Haralson not starting, that really remains to be seen. I like Aldon a lot, but he didn't start last year and wasn't asked to do much in the running game. Granted I think he can play the run extremely well based on his ability to stack and shed and not get pushed around - as well as his college tape, but he still hasn't gotten the spot yet.

Haralson is cheap for a starter, slightly pricey for a backup but not outrageously so.
[ Edited by Evilgenius on May 30, 2012 at 11:29 PM ]
Originally posted by zillabeast:
Originally posted by WillistheWall:
Originally posted by niners4lyfe:
You think parys haralson will get cut? I also think Kyle Williams will make the team.

This. Haralson and Williams make the team.


Kyle Williams has to go. Not everyone is as sympathetic towards his failure as the people on this board. His presence would be a distraction. Best let Williams get a new start someplace else.


distraction for whom? the team dont care what the media or the fans say. if they did alex wouldve gotten booted year 2
  • teeohh
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I'm not a fan of person keeping a roster spot, maybe he can go on ps. With the additions of looney and slowey I dont see it unless slowey isn't ready to be 3rd string
I hope Cartwright and Jacobs dont make the team. Its funny how soon people forget our shortage at wide out last year. You can't just go cutting an impact player like KW and one who proved at WR that he belongs in this league.

As for Parys, come on man. Cutting maybe our most complete(at this time) OLB for a 2nd year player who we don't know If he's ready to play every snap yet and couple rookies? That's not smart, and that's not something a super bowl winning team would do. Yes the numbers may not line up, but you have to fix that via somewhere else..

Thanks for taking the time to do this though, AB.
  • GORO
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  • Posts: 1,833
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
First thoughts, I cut Haralson as I did with my first go around, because his salary is too high to keep, wouldn't leave us any cap room to breathe with.

I also cut Tolzien, and don't expect him to clear waivers, if so he is brought back for P-Squad.

But here it is, my 2nd go at the 53 man and 8 man P-Squad.

2012 Roster:

QB(3): 11 Alex Smith, 7 Colin Kaepernick, 1 Josh Johnson
RB(4): 21 Frank Gore, 23 LaMichael James, 45 Brandon Jacobs, 32 Kendall Hunter
FB(1): 49 Bruce Miller
WR(4): 15 Michael Crabtree, 84 Randy Moss, 14 Mario Manningham, 17 A.J. Jenkins
TE(3): 85 Vernon Davis, 46 Delanie Walker, 82 Nate Byham
C(1): 59 Jonathan Goodwin
OG(4): 77 Mike Iupati, 67 Daniel Kilgore, 66 Joe Looney, 78 Mike Person
OT(3): 74 Joe Staley, 76 Anthony Davis, 75 Alex Boone

DE(4): 94 Justin Smith, 91 Ray McDonald, 92 Will Tukuafu, 96 Demarcus Dobbs
NT(3): 90 Isaac Sopoaga, 95 Ricky Jean Francois, 93 Ian Williams
OLB(4): 55 Ahmad Brooks, 99 Aldon Smith, 50 Cam Johnson, 0 Eric Bakhtiari
ILB(4): 52 Patrick Willis, 53 NaVorro Bowman, 54 Larry Grant, 56 Tavares Gooden
CB(5): 22 Carlos Rogers, 25 Tarell Brown, 29 Chris Culliver, 20 Perrish Cox, 26 Tramaine Brock
S(4): 38 Dashon Goldson, 31 Donte Whitner, 27 C.J. Spillman, 30 Trenton Robinson

ST(6): 2 David Akers, 4 Andy Lee, 86 Brian Jennings, 19 Ted Ginn Jr., 28 Rock Cartwright, 43 Colin Jones

Gameday Inactives: QB Johnson, RB Hunter, OG Person, DE Dobbs, NT Williams, CB Brock and S Robinson

IR(1): OLB 58 Darius Fleming

PS(8): RB 33 Hampton, WR 81 Owusu, WR 89 Palmer, C 62 Slowey, OT 71 Hall, DE 71 Masifilo, OLB 51 Holland and CB 41 Holcomb

2012 Cap Numbers:

# Name Pos. Signed 2012 Salary
52 Willis, Patrick ILB 2016 $17,642,287
11 Smith, Alex QB 2014 $9,255,580
85 Davis, Vernon TE 2015 $8,023,246
94 Smith, Justin DE 2013 $6,380,580
38 Goldson, Dashon FS 2012 $6,212,000
21 Gore, Frank RB 2014 $6,005,580
22 Rogers, Carlos CB 2015 $5,505,580
15 Crabtree, Michael WR 2014 $5,364,580
90 Sopoaga, Isaac NT 2012 $4,960,580
31 Whitner, Donte SS 2013 $4,388,913
91 McDonald, Ray DE 2015 $4,155,580
59 Goodwin, Jonathan C 2013 $3,722,247
2 Akers, David PK 2013 $3,622,247
99 Smith, Aldon OLB 2014 $3,274,671
76 Davis, Anthony RT 2014 $3,197,246
55 Brooks, Ahmad OLB 2017 $2,855,580
74 Staley, Joe LT 2017 $2,700,580
14 Manningham, Mario WR 2013 $2,555,580
84 Moss, Randy WR 2012 $2,505,580
77 Iupati, Mike LG 2014 $2,036,580
46 Walker, Delanie TE 2012 $2,010,580
4 Lee, Andy P 2018 $1,907,248
25 Brown, Tarell CB 2013 $1,736,330
45 Jacobs, Brandon RB 2012 $1,580,580
19 Ginn Jr., Ted WR 2012 $1,380,580
54 Grant, Larry ILB 2012 $1,265,580
17 Jenkins, A.J. WR 2015 $1,262,500
7 Kaepernick, Colin QB 2014 $1,170,193
86 Jennings, Brian LS 2014 $1,151,580
27 Spillman, C.J. SS 2014 $1,085,580
28 Cartwright, Rock RB 2012 $955,580
75 Boone, Alex RT 2015 $935,580
1 Johnson, Josh QB 2013 $880,580
53 Bowman, NaVorro ILB 2013 $721,142
56 Gooden, Tavares ILB 2012 $705,580
95 Jean Francois, Ricky NT 2012 $631,330
29 Culliver, Chris CB 2014 $620,299
23 James, LaMichael RB 2015 $603,250
32 Hunter, Kendall RB 2014 $580,385
26 Brock, Tramaine CB 2012 $545,580
82 Byham, Nate TE 2013 $522,130
67 Kilgore, Daniel OG 2014 $510,655
66 Looney, Joe OG 2015 $496,250
49 Miller, Bruce FB 2014 $486,193
78 Person, Mike OG 2014 $482,055
43 Jones, Colin FS 2014 $470,580
20 Cox, Perrish CB 2013 $470,580
92 Tukuafu, Will DE 2013 $470,580
96 Dobbs, Demarcus DE 2013 $470,580
93 Williams, Ian NT 2013 $470,580
Bakhtiari, Eric OLB 2013 $465,000
58 Fleming, Darius OLB 2015-IR $431,000
30 Robinson, Trenton FS 2015 $417,625
50 Johnson, Cam OLB 2015 $401,475
41 Holcomb, Curtis CB PS $96,900
71 Masifilo, Matt DE PS $96,900
51 Holland, Joe OLB PS $96,900
71 Hall, Derek OT PS $96,900
33 Hampton, Jewell RB PS $96,900
81 Owusu, Chris WR PS $96,900
89 Palmer, Nathan WR PS $96,900
62 Slowey, Jason C PS $96,900

2012 Current Total $133,435,357
2012 Dead Money $1,259,700
2012 Current and Dead Money $134,695,057
Leftover 2011 Cap Space $16,500,000
2012 Salary Cap Limit w/Leftover $138,082,519
2012 Salary Cap Limit without leftover $120,600,000
2012 Credited Cap Space $1,643,000
2012 Adjustments $982,519
2012 Cap Space $4,049,462
2012 Vet Credit $545,000
Split Contracts $117,000

Dead Money

2011 UDFAs $50,000
2012 UDFAs $26,528
Philip Adams $28,924
Anthony Dixon $30,150
Parys Haralson $100,000
Curtis Holcomb $11,750
Ronald Johnson $78,165
Colin Jones $74,172
Taylor Mays $754,000
Scott McKillop $48,063
Jason Slowey $23,128
Curtis Taylor $14,970
Kyle Williams $19,850

Total $1,259,700

2013 Free Agents to be under this scenario:

RB Brandon Jacobs
RB Rock Cartwright
WR Randy Moss
WR Ted Ginn Jr.
TE Delanie Walker
NT Isaac Sopoaga
NT Ricky Jean Francois
ILB Larry Grant
ILB Tavares Gooden
CB Tramaine Brock (RFA)
FS Dashon Goldson

2013 Committed salaries look like this.

$118.183M, which includes the 8 men on P-Squad having rookie minimum deals of $405K if retained for 2013, and $142,884 in dead money.

Can't imagine Haralson not on this years team. Kyle Williams would be a tough cut he really showed potential as a wr and did a decent job returning prior to the Championship game.

I think 49ers will have 9 offensive Lineman on the 53 and 6 defensive lineman intead of 7.
Interesting stab. I wouldn't cut haralson. Not when I can squirell an OLB or two on the practice squad. I don't see it happening. He had a good season last year. Also there is no way we only carry 4 wideouts into the season this time around. 5 if not 6. I see however you have Ginn listed as a ST guy. I still say we keep wiliams to make it 6. So bye bye Palmer and shift a OLB to the practice squad.
I also had Haralson as a goner , but with Fleming out for the year, and Aldon Smith getting more snaps, Haralson will be great depth to have ...but at his current price tag ?
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:

Gameday Inactives: QB Johnson, RB Hunter, OG Person, DE Dobbs, NT Williams, CB Brock and S Robinson



I realize there are hard decisions to make, and its lame if everyone agrees on what is what...

BUT---- NO WAY Hunter is inactive on gamedays. I dont care if everyone else outshines him. That just means we have 4 stud RBs. He's too good. Harbaugh will find a way to keep him on the active roster

He would have to be inactive, If we keep, and we should keep both Cartwright and Jones, both are active. Leaving a decision between Jacobs(Who won't want to be inactive) and Hunter.

Can't keep 6 OL active, thus keeping 7 active like 2011. Never activated 5 WRs in 2011, 2012 will be different, we want Jenkins, Moss, Crabs and Manningham getting PT, and Ginn is our only viable Return option, anyone who thinks James, Cox or anyone else is better is nuts.

6th WR is not needed, Williams should be cut, if we need a WR late, then trade for one, or sign Owusu or Palmer off PS.

It's possible Dobbs or I.Williams is cut, leading to a PS spot for them, if clears waivers.

Josh Johnson is better option IMO to have with Kaep behind Alex then with Tolzien. I trust Johnson more.

Byham is primary 3rd and blocking TE, plus a FB potentially if needed.

Tough decisions indeed. Haralson needs pay cut, can't keep him and only have 1.279M to work with.


While we all are arm chair GM's, and I truly agree with 90% of your roster moves AB, there is no way Parys Haralson is cut, and I believe he wil not take a pay cut. He was the starter last year on a stingy defense, OLB is a very important position in the 3-4, an Harbaugh mentioned that they would not risk having only 1 back up OLB this year like last. His cap number is not bad considering he will be utilized every game day.

I personally see the niners restructuring Willis, extending Justing Smith, to make a little more cap room.

I also will say the 7th round tender for Larry Grant is looking a lot wiser now. I was one of the zoners screaming for the 1.7 million 2nd round tender, the 500K saved is now important.

We will see, but I am sticking with my guns that Tolzien beats out Josh Johsnon. Tolzien is cheaper towards the cap, could be a great long term career back up, and potential starter. Harbaugh has shown that he has no loyalty to his former players, he will pick the players that fit what is right for 2012. My opinion is that they will opt for the cap savings of Tolzien over Johnson. Just my 2 cents. Thx for the salary info, it puts a lot of things into perspective.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Originally posted by niners4lyfe:
You think parys haralson will get cut? I also think Kyle Williams will make the team.

I dont see a need for a 6th WR, we didn't keep 6 last year, and we only had 4 of the 5 active on game days.

Haralson makes too much, if kept we lose $2.77M in cap room, we need room for emergencies, can't go in with 1.7M or less, won't work.

Uh, and how did that work out for us?? Right... we lost Morgan and then had the worst WR corp in the league. Also, we didn't keep 6 because there weren't 6 guys good enough to warrant a roster spot. Kyle Williams is a pretty good young WR. I think we keep him instead of one of the 7 DL you have listed.

I would also like to keep Haralson. But it would be difficult to keep him. He could start on most other 3-4 teams in the league. He is worth $2.77M... but not as a backup. It will be interesting to see how that all plays out.
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Not that easy to just keep a player and only have under 1.3M to use. If you end up signing players to league minimum deals, you would sign only 3 guys, at $390K each. The way we are, our front office won't go in risking cap space.

I understand Haralson is a good player, but facts are his salary is TOO high. He isn't a starter, and isn't a special teams player. Guys like Grant and Gooden, who make less combined play Special teams.

Also we are under by 3.7M right now, BUT it is only for top 51 salaries, when season starts the entire team counts(53 man, PS, IR, PUP) meaning less and less cap space.

I've said before, restructuring deals isnt a good idea, just pushes money back, when cap isnt known for 2013 and beyond. The new TV deal may or may not help the cap. If owners get there ways the cap will always be 120M range.

Actually, if he doesn't start... he most likely will play a lot of special teams. He hasn't played special teams in the past because he has been a key starter at OLB. Even with Aldon getting more reps, Haralson will still see a lot of snaps on defense rotating in to keep everybody fresh.

Another point... your salary cap numbers seem to assume that Goldson will play 2012 on his franchise tender. If we sign him long term (before the season starts) to something like $4M a year, wouldn't that free up about $2M in 2012 cap space?
52 Willis, Patrick ILB 2016 $17,642,287


That's nearly twice as much as the 2nd highest paid player on the team. Is his salary the result of a back-loaded contract? How many years left on his contract? TIA.
I'd hate to see us lose Harleson, but I can see ABs point. He has a lot of value in this league, so I hope that we can at least get a trade for him instead of cutting him outright.
KW appears to have a lot of talent.I think a lot of fans overreact to his miscues in the championship game. I think he just had an off game, maybe due to concussions.
If we don't keep Hunter active I would be surprised. Here again, I think we might look at ST action for him or at least getting some trade value if we aren't going to use him.
Originally posted by GORO:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
First thoughts, I cut Haralson as I did with my first go around, because his salary is too high to keep, wouldn't leave us any cap room to breathe with.

I also cut Tolzien, and don't expect him to clear waivers, if so he is brought back for P-Squad.

But here it is, my 2nd go at the 53 man and 8 man P-Squad.

2012 Roster:

QB(3): 11 Alex Smith, 7 Colin Kaepernick, 1 Josh Johnson
RB(4): 21 Frank Gore, 23 LaMichael James, 45 Brandon Jacobs, 32 Kendall Hunter
FB(1): 49 Bruce Miller
WR(4): 15 Michael Crabtree, 84 Randy Moss, 14 Mario Manningham, 17 A.J. Jenkins
TE(3): 85 Vernon Davis, 46 Delanie Walker, 82 Nate Byham
C(1): 59 Jonathan Goodwin
OG(4): 77 Mike Iupati, 67 Daniel Kilgore, 66 Joe Looney, 78 Mike Person
OT(3): 74 Joe Staley, 76 Anthony Davis, 75 Alex Boone

DE(4): 94 Justin Smith, 91 Ray McDonald, 92 Will Tukuafu, 96 Demarcus Dobbs
NT(3): 90 Isaac Sopoaga, 95 Ricky Jean Francois, 93 Ian Williams
OLB(4): 55 Ahmad Brooks, 99 Aldon Smith, 50 Cam Johnson, 0 Eric Bakhtiari
ILB(4): 52 Patrick Willis, 53 NaVorro Bowman, 54 Larry Grant, 56 Tavares Gooden
CB(5): 22 Carlos Rogers, 25 Tarell Brown, 29 Chris Culliver, 20 Perrish Cox, 26 Tramaine Brock
S(4): 38 Dashon Goldson, 31 Donte Whitner, 27 C.J. Spillman, 30 Trenton Robinson

ST(6): 2 David Akers, 4 Andy Lee, 86 Brian Jennings, 19 Ted Ginn Jr., 28 Rock Cartwright, 43 Colin Jones

Gameday Inactives: QB Johnson, RB Hunter, OG Person, DE Dobbs, NT Williams, CB Brock and S Robinson

IR(1): OLB 58 Darius Fleming

PS(8): RB 33 Hampton, WR 81 Owusu, WR 89 Palmer, C 62 Slowey, OT 71 Hall, DE 71 Masifilo, OLB 51 Holland and CB 41 Holcomb

2012 Cap Numbers:

# Name Pos. Signed 2012 Salary
52 Willis, Patrick ILB 2016 $17,642,287
11 Smith, Alex QB 2014 $9,255,580
85 Davis, Vernon TE 2015 $8,023,246
94 Smith, Justin DE 2013 $6,380,580
38 Goldson, Dashon FS 2012 $6,212,000
21 Gore, Frank RB 2014 $6,005,580
22 Rogers, Carlos CB 2015 $5,505,580
15 Crabtree, Michael WR 2014 $5,364,580
90 Sopoaga, Isaac NT 2012 $4,960,580
31 Whitner, Donte SS 2013 $4,388,913
91 McDonald, Ray DE 2015 $4,155,580
59 Goodwin, Jonathan C 2013 $3,722,247
2 Akers, David PK 2013 $3,622,247
99 Smith, Aldon OLB 2014 $3,274,671
76 Davis, Anthony RT 2014 $3,197,246
55 Brooks, Ahmad OLB 2017 $2,855,580
74 Staley, Joe LT 2017 $2,700,580
14 Manningham, Mario WR 2013 $2,555,580
84 Moss, Randy WR 2012 $2,505,580
77 Iupati, Mike LG 2014 $2,036,580
46 Walker, Delanie TE 2012 $2,010,580
4 Lee, Andy P 2018 $1,907,248
25 Brown, Tarell CB 2013 $1,736,330
45 Jacobs, Brandon RB 2012 $1,580,580
19 Ginn Jr., Ted WR 2012 $1,380,580
54 Grant, Larry ILB 2012 $1,265,580
17 Jenkins, A.J. WR 2015 $1,262,500
7 Kaepernick, Colin QB 2014 $1,170,193
86 Jennings, Brian LS 2014 $1,151,580
27 Spillman, C.J. SS 2014 $1,085,580
28 Cartwright, Rock RB 2012 $955,580
75 Boone, Alex RT 2015 $935,580
1 Johnson, Josh QB 2013 $880,580
53 Bowman, NaVorro ILB 2013 $721,142
56 Gooden, Tavares ILB 2012 $705,580
95 Jean Francois, Ricky NT 2012 $631,330
29 Culliver, Chris CB 2014 $620,299
23 James, LaMichael RB 2015 $603,250
32 Hunter, Kendall RB 2014 $580,385
26 Brock, Tramaine CB 2012 $545,580
82 Byham, Nate TE 2013 $522,130
67 Kilgore, Daniel OG 2014 $510,655
66 Looney, Joe OG 2015 $496,250
49 Miller, Bruce FB 2014 $486,193
78 Person, Mike OG 2014 $482,055
43 Jones, Colin FS 2014 $470,580
20 Cox, Perrish CB 2013 $470,580
92 Tukuafu, Will DE 2013 $470,580
96 Dobbs, Demarcus DE 2013 $470,580
93 Williams, Ian NT 2013 $470,580
Bakhtiari, Eric OLB 2013 $465,000
58 Fleming, Darius OLB 2015-IR $431,000
30 Robinson, Trenton FS 2015 $417,625
50 Johnson, Cam OLB 2015 $401,475
41 Holcomb, Curtis CB PS $96,900
71 Masifilo, Matt DE PS $96,900
51 Holland, Joe OLB PS $96,900
71 Hall, Derek OT PS $96,900
33 Hampton, Jewell RB PS $96,900
81 Owusu, Chris WR PS $96,900
89 Palmer, Nathan WR PS $96,900
62 Slowey, Jason C PS $96,900

2012 Current Total $133,435,357
2012 Dead Money $1,259,700
2012 Current and Dead Money $134,695,057
Leftover 2011 Cap Space $16,500,000
2012 Salary Cap Limit w/Leftover $138,082,519
2012 Salary Cap Limit without leftover $120,600,000
2012 Credited Cap Space $1,643,000
2012 Adjustments $982,519
2012 Cap Space $4,049,462
2012 Vet Credit $545,000
Split Contracts $117,000

Dead Money

2011 UDFAs $50,000
2012 UDFAs $26,528
Philip Adams $28,924
Anthony Dixon $30,150
Parys Haralson $100,000
Curtis Holcomb $11,750
Ronald Johnson $78,165
Colin Jones $74,172
Taylor Mays $754,000
Scott McKillop $48,063
Jason Slowey $23,128
Curtis Taylor $14,970
Kyle Williams $19,850

Total $1,259,700

2013 Free Agents to be under this scenario:

RB Brandon Jacobs
RB Rock Cartwright
WR Randy Moss
WR Ted Ginn Jr.
TE Delanie Walker
NT Isaac Sopoaga
NT Ricky Jean Francois
ILB Larry Grant
ILB Tavares Gooden
CB Tramaine Brock (RFA)
FS Dashon Goldson

2013 Committed salaries look like this.

$118.183M, which includes the 8 men on P-Squad having rookie minimum deals of $405K if retained for 2013, and $142,884 in dead money.

Can't imagine Haralson not on this years team. Kyle Williams would be a tough cut he really showed potential as a wr and did a decent job returning prior to the Championship game.

I think 49ers will have 9 offensive Lineman on the 53 and 6 defensive lineman intead of 7.

I am in the same boat as many of you I cant see Haralson and Williams gone...but I also see why AB thinks what he does with the money getting tight, its very difficult to see who would go in their place. I think if anything Ab is keep a few too many guys purely for their special teams value that dont represent solid contiributions at their postions and it looks to me like he wants to keep 5 Rb's and 8 o-line on the roster..those spots seem a tad high for my taste. My guess is Cartwright doesnt make the cut because Hunter has more upside at RB and Person goes to the practice squad. That could squeeze out just enough money to keep Harralson. Then it would be possible to evaluate who is more important to the team a sixth wideout in William or a 5th OLB like Bakhtiari