Kaepernick vs. Tolzien vs. Johnson

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well, this will be heretical to Kap fans, but the only thing I can see that makes sense is for Kap to be traded. Why? Because there were two other somebodys who wanted Kap so that we had to jump up to get Kap, and Coach & Baalke got a call from whoever it was and let them know of their interest in Kap. My guess is that Kap gets traded during the draft for either an extra pick (rd 2-3) or conceivably to move up in draft so we can get WR, Fleener or Zeitler. My bet (okay prayer) is that Coach not only gets Fleener he also gets Zeitler. If that were to be pulled off, it would be one helluva draft if we quit there. They say a great draft is to get three starters. For me, those two would be worth picks 2-6.
Caution: my guesses on drafts are so bad that none of this will probably happen...still, why buy JJ for $1mil? That doesn't make sense, unless he is #3, and that leaves Kap available for trade up, or an extra pick. We all know these two guys do not waste money, nor draft picks. Something is up. 10 days and we'll know. If Tolz were traded, I'd be sick, but it would have to be for a pretty high first rounder for Coach to give him up.

So we moved up in the draft to get our guy, got our guy, celebrated the fact that we got our guy, applauded his ability, confidently made him our backup as a rookie, and then we trade him?

Originally posted by BrianGO:
So we moved up in the draft to get our guy, got our guy, celebrated the fact that we got our guy, applauded his ability, confidently made him our backup as a rookie, and then we trade him?

hey you know the coach, if he does not feel anyone can cut the mustard he will move em out.You can not stand still in the nfl cuz if you are standing still you are losing ground and that is how you lose your job, i would not be so quick as to dismiss docs theory,,, remember we got him,BEFORE, alex went out and had a good season cuz they really did not know what they had with alex AT THE TIME, of the draft. I often wonder if they now regret thier choice to get CK, knowing what they know now about alex. Of course you would never get anywhere asking the coach that question

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
So we moved up in the draft to get our guy, got our guy, celebrated the fact that we got our guy, applauded his ability, confidently made him our backup as a rookie, and then we trade him?

hey you know the coach, if he does not feel anyone can cut the mustard he will move em out.You can not stand still in the nfl cuz if you are standing still you are losing ground and that is how you lose your job, i would not be so quick as to dismiss docs theory,,, remember we got him,BEFORE, alex went out and had a good season cuz they really did not know what they had with alex AT THE TIME, of the draft. I often wonder if they now regret thier choice to get CK, knowing what they know now about alex. Of course you would never get anywhere asking the coach that question

Where do I even start?

1) Player trades are RARE. When was the last time we traded a player?
2) We moved UP in the draft to get the guy. That means we WANTED HIM. Not, "Oh, well I guess we have to make a pick, let's just take the top player on our board."
3) We made him our backup quarterback. We didn't bury him at 3rd string, we didn't go out and sign a vet backup, we didn't panic.
4) He has done nothing but impress since he got here, both in practice and in the handful of snaps he has seen in games.
5) Last but not least. What the heck does Alex Smith have to do with Colin Kaepernick? This is not Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. We are not paying Smith a ton of money, and relatively, we are paying Kaepernick almost nothing. The salary cap situation for these two players means nothing. They don't effect each other at all. One does not exclude the other. They don't undermine each other in any technical way, shape, or form.

I think its just people trying to knock Kaep, because he represents a threat to Alex Smith. He's a threat, threats have to be neutralized.
Three ways to neutralize a threat:
1) Don't talk about Kaepernick at all. (Most probably do this).
2) Turn him into a joke or act as if he is nothing serious. (Exactly what talk of trading him is trying to accomplish).
3) Fight the threat by seriously talking about his flaws and his inferiority to Alex Smith. (Takes a lot more effort, and allows avenues for the threat to grow).

The first tactic doesn't bother me at all of course. The third tactic I can mostly respect. But the second tactic is getting a little tiresome because its just not going to happen.
Anything is possible, but any other player on our team is just as likely to get traded.
People have talked about trading Gore, trading Willis, trading Davis, trading Smith, but the Kaepernick stuff just won't die, despite the fact that it is equally unlikely to happen.

I think the coaches will be looking for the QB that is willing to stick the ball in on tight coverage this year without throwing INTs, or at least not many INTs. They want the QB that will pull the trigger and let the receivers make a play. That said, I believe

#1 - Smith will once again convince the coaches in camp that he is the best bet.
#2 - But as much as I hope he succeeds, I honestly give Smith a 50/50 chance of keeping his job past 4 games if he fails to play loose in games like he did in camp.
#3 - One of the other QBs will give the coaches just enough confidence to give him a shot if Smith gets yanked -- my bet is on Johnson
#4 - Tolzein beats out Kaep for the #3 spot because he shows more consistency and higher chance of managing the team to a win in the regular season than Kaep, despite Kaep's better athleticism.

They will have a huge challenge on their hands on putting Tolz or Kaep on the PS. But, teams will have more to wonder about if there is a problem is with Kaep if he goes from second round to PS. Tolz is more of a lesser Andy Dalton, and I think teams would grab him quicker.

competition and extra arm for camp...let's see what happens

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
So we moved up in the draft to get our guy, got our guy, celebrated the fact that we got our guy, applauded his ability, confidently made him our backup as a rookie, and then we trade him?

hey you know the coach, if he does not feel anyone can cut the mustard he will move em out.You can not stand still in the nfl cuz if you are standing still you are losing ground and that is how you lose your job, i would not be so quick as to dismiss docs theory,,, remember we got him,BEFORE, alex went out and had a good season cuz they really did not know what they had with alex AT THE TIME, of the draft. I often wonder if they now regret thier choice to get CK, knowing what they know now about alex. Of course you would never get anywhere asking the coach that question

Where do I even start?

1) Player trades are RARE. When was the last time we traded a player?
2) We moved UP in the draft to get the guy. That means we WANTED HIM. Not, "Oh, well I guess we have to make a pick, let's just take the top player on our board."
3) We made him our backup quarterback. We didn't bury him at 3rd string, we didn't go out and sign a vet backup, we didn't panic.
4) He has done nothing but impress since he got here, both in practice and in the handful of snaps he has seen in games.
5) Last but not least. What the heck does Alex Smith have to do with Colin Kaepernick? This is not Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. We are not paying Smith a ton of money, and relatively, we are paying Kaepernick almost nothing. The salary cap situation for these two players means nothing. They don't effect each other at all. One does not exclude the other. They don't undermine each other in any technical way, shape, or form.

I think its just people trying to knock Kaep, because he represents a threat to Alex Smith. He's a threat, threats have to be neutralized.
Three ways to neutralize a threat:
1) Don't talk about Kaepernick at all. (Most probably do this).
2) Turn him into a joke or act as if he is nothing serious. (Exactly what talk of trading him is trying to accomplish).
3) Fight the threat by seriously talking about his flaws and his inferiority to Alex Smith. (Takes a lot more effort, and allows avenues for the threat to grow).

The first tactic doesn't bother me at all of course. The third tactic I can mostly respect. But the second tactic is getting a little tiresome because its just not going to happen.
Anything is possible, but any other player on our team is just as likely to get traded.
People have talked about trading Gore, trading Willis, trading Davis, trading Smith, but the Kaepernick stuff just won't die, despite the fact that it is equally unlikely to happen.

1. Taylor Mays ring a bell?
2. We traded up after the other QB(Dalton) that harbaugh was interested in was taken off the board.

Brian, I have no animus towards Kap at all. I don't even think I made a post about him, other than to say his highlight reel is pretty awe-inspiring. Right now however, if alex were injured i truly believe Tolz starts, as Kap still has lots of potential, but Tolz is ready. JJ? No idea, other than I feel pretty certain that B&H wouldn't keep 4 qbs, when we need extra DL, OL and WRs. Ergo, somebody wants Kap and has sent a flyer by Coach, probably the one or two teams we cut in front of to get Kap. Anything else just doesn't make sense to me, and whether Kap is traded for a draft pick(2nd-3rd round hopfully), or added to our #1 in trade for someone else's #1....I don't know. Believe me Brian, I have no knock on a kid w/ terrific potential, who just isn't there yet. That's it, nothing against him. I am just guessing at the tea leaves, like most others. This isn't about Kap. It is about a 4th qB on a team able to carry only 3.

Also, CC's mention of how we got Kap, before the breakout of alex, was an entirely different situation than where we are now. Times have changed, we have other wants and needs, and we have an extra Qb to help us out in the draft. That is my thinking. What do i know? nothing.

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
So we moved up in the draft to get our guy, got our guy, celebrated the fact that we got our guy, applauded his ability, confidently made him our backup as a rookie, and then we trade him?

hey you know the coach, if he does not feel anyone can cut the mustard he will move em out.You can not stand still in the nfl cuz if you are standing still you are losing ground and that is how you lose your job, i would not be so quick as to dismiss docs theory,,, remember we got him,BEFORE, alex went out and had a good season cuz they really did not know what they had with alex AT THE TIME, of the draft. I often wonder if they now regret thier choice to get CK, knowing what they know now about alex. Of course you would never get anywhere asking the coach that question

Where do I even start?

1) Player trades are RARE. When was the last time we traded a player?
2) We moved UP in the draft to get the guy. That means we WANTED HIM. Not, "Oh, well I guess we have to make a pick, let's just take the top player on our board."
3) We made him our backup quarterback. We didn't bury him at 3rd string, we didn't go out and sign a vet backup, we didn't panic.
4) He has done nothing but impress since he got here, both in practice and in the handful of snaps he has seen in games.
5) Last but not least. What the heck does Alex Smith have to do with Colin Kaepernick? This is not Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. We are not paying Smith a ton of money, and relatively, we are paying Kaepernick almost nothing. The salary cap situation for these two players means nothing. They don't effect each other at all. One does not exclude the other. They don't undermine each other in any technical way, shape, or form.

I think its just people trying to knock Kaep, because he represents a threat to Alex Smith. He's a threat, threats have to be neutralized.
Three ways to neutralize a threat:
1) Don't talk about Kaepernick at all. (Most probably do this).
2) Turn him into a joke or act as if he is nothing serious. (Exactly what talk of trading him is trying to accomplish).
3) Fight the threat by seriously talking about his flaws and his inferiority to Alex Smith. (Takes a lot more effort, and allows avenues for the threat to grow).

The first tactic doesn't bother me at all of course. The third tactic I can mostly respect. But the second tactic is getting a little tiresome because its just not going to happen.
Anything is possible, but any other player on our team is just as likely to get traded.
People have talked about trading Gore, trading Willis, trading Davis, trading Smith, but the Kaepernick stuff just won't die, despite the fact that it is equally unlikely to happen.

1. Taylor Mays ring a bell?
2. We traded up after the other QB(Dalton) that harbaugh was interested in was taken off the board.

Here's the difference... Taylor Mays is considered a bust by most of the league, who views him as just an athlete but not a football player. That's not a trade... that's cutting your losses.

Originally posted by susweel:

All I know is if Tolzien gets cut Im done being a niner fan.

Stop trying to get everyone to cheer for Tolzien's demise.

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i think it will be alex, johnson and then kaep

this

Tolzien reported that Harbaugh & Baalke guaranteed 'him' a fighting chance to either retain or move up the roster, and I believe it.

In all seriousness (and not just saying in 'jest' for once), I see Tolzien retaining his #3 job. Everybody thinks just because of the history between Harbaugh & Johnson, it' a 'no-brainer' that Josh gets a gimme 'veteran' spot on the roster.

-I digress, Josh Johnson is a horrible backup QB (just look at the film, it's no secret why he wasn't retained by Tampa as a backup), and looked like trash in almost every preseason he's played in (and even worse in the times he's played "fill-in" for Tampa's supposed starter). -Scott Tolzien slaughtered Scrubs in his rookie preseason throwing to potential Burger King employees while Johnson couldn't even throw a TD to a player who became a f**king Walmart Greeter 5 days later!

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by BayArea:

Originally posted by cNiner:
Alex will be the 3rd , Johnson starter , Kap backup to Johnson.

lol

Alex loses 1st,2nd and couldn't convert on 3rd string

LOL... That one shot water out my nose.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well, this will be heretical to Kap fans, but the only thing I can see that makes sense is for Kap to be traded. Why? Because there were two other somebodys who wanted Kap so that we had to jump up to get Kap, and Coach & Baalke got a call from whoever it was and let them know of their interest in Kap. My guess is that Kap gets traded during the draft for either an extra pick (rd 2-3) or conceivably to move up in draft so we can get WR, Fleener or Zeitler. My bet (okay prayer) is that Coach not only gets Fleener he also gets Zeitler. If that were to be pulled off, it would be one helluva draft if we quit there. They say a great draft is to get three starters. For me, those two would be worth picks 2-6.
Caution: my guesses on drafts are so bad that none of this will probably happen...still, why buy JJ for $1mil? That doesn't make sense, unless he is #3, and that leaves Kap available for trade up, or an extra pick. We all know these two guys do not waste money, nor draft picks. Something is up. 10 days and we'll know. If Tolz were traded, I'd be sick, but it would have to be for a pretty high first rounder for Coach to give him up.

What if Alex gets traded?

Okay, I know that sounds stupid; but, that was my point. Why would a team trade draft picks for a QB who is viewed as a lesser one than what was available on the open market in FA? That team could have had Smith (viewed as a better QB) and keep their draft picks?

I'd bet it's going to be Alex, CK, and JJ unless Tolzan beats out JJ.

D niner, are you being serious or facetious about Tolz not being the best qb to come in if alex goes down?

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
So we moved up in the draft to get our guy, got our guy, celebrated the fact that we got our guy, applauded his ability, confidently made him our backup as a rookie, and then we trade him?

hey you know the coach, if he does not feel anyone can cut the mustard he will move em out.You can not stand still in the nfl cuz if you are standing still you are losing ground and that is how you lose your job, i would not be so quick as to dismiss docs theory,,, remember we got him,BEFORE, alex went out and had a good season cuz they really did not know what they had with alex AT THE TIME, of the draft. I often wonder if they now regret thier choice to get CK, knowing what they know now about alex. Of course you would never get anywhere asking the coach that question

Ok.....slower this time.

Alex....Smith......got.....a.....3.....year......deal.

You don't refuse, and the Niners did just that, to give a deal longer than 3 years to a guy you expect to start beyond 3 years from now.

My opinion is that Alex Smtih is our starter no longer than the 2013 season.