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The Total Inability of 49er Fans to Understand Receiver Performance

Originally posted by Fal_Mc11:
I agree with most of the things you are saying. The most upsetting thing though is that most fans here in the WZ would rather see their ideas of failure come true rather than see the team winor players succeed. This "chicken little" mentality is sick and down right sad, I can't image other fans being this hard on a team that is once again successful and headed in the right direction after over a decade of stagnation.

Back on point:
Crabtree- For someone to say he is a bust is clearly wrong, he has improved every year that he has played for us. I do however believe he needs to put in "Jerry Rice effort" to be a great player, a player he is more than capable of becoming. I would like to see him work out with the team during the OTA's and not b***h out with some small injury. I would love to see him player and work on routes during preseason. I swear if he doesn't play in preseason again, I would then prepare to move on from the idea of him ever being a solid number #1. (As it seats today, he is a solid #2)

Moss-This is the wild card play and he came at no risk to us. Think what you want about Moss, but he has been a good teammate when with the Vikings and Patriots and his teammates had said so. I loved this pick up and I will tell you why. Cheap, little risk, he is a deep threat, and maybe finally having a winning WR on the team can push the young guys. I think he will surprise this year. (A year off has cleaned his mind and his body has heeled from football)

Manningham-I wasn't crazy about this pick, but still do not know the numbers of the contract. He looks the part of a solid #2, deep threat. Good hands. Underachiever, but could surprise this year. Till I know the contract numbers I can not say for sure if it is a good pick up or not, so I reserve comment till then.

Williams-Stop saying to cut the guy, he messed up and fans need to get over it. He looked good in player last year and would not cut a player for the sake of cutting someone. We need to have a players to replace him before he can be cut. Fans are crazy, this isn't Madden.

Serious stop with the draft Fleener stuff, unless he is BPA we will not be drafting a TE in the first. We need help on the O-line, at WR, at corner, at NT, and could use some depth at DE. We are not drafting Fleener, I think that is how you spell it, I actually hope someone drafts him before we pick to end the madness.

Yeah, this is a big debate (BPA) on the Draft boards. But we cannot draft yet another offensive lineman in the first two rounds, that would be a huge overinvestment there and, quite frankly, wasteful and unprecedented. Here's why we take Fleener:

1. We're loaded at corner
2. Drafting for depth on the DL is important, but the value isn't there
3. A rookie WR is unlikely to suit up for the 49ers in 2012.
4. Harbaugh runs 2 TE sets ALL THE TIME, sometimes going 3 TE. We need a solid 2nd TE to pair with VD.
Crabtree's (and Alex's) performance will improve next year because there is going to be ANOTHER nfl wide receiver on the field.

After Morgan broke his leg, can anyone tell me the other nfl caliber wide receiver Alex had to choose from? Ginn? Edwards? Williams? Exactly.

Now there are 3 wide receivers a defense actually has to think about, not just 1.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
if you made a thread for every logical assumption or factual based argument that Niner Talk ignores or denies, then you'd be constantly making threads.

wait a minute...


This topic has not been discussed.

our receivers haven't been discussed? you sure about that?

i'll admit that they don't get discussed as often as, um, other players. like i said, this is a decent topic. but don't pretend like we haven't discussed it already.

also, i was making a lighthearted joke to mend fences, Baalke-Smith style.
Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
Crabtree's (and Alex's) performance will improve next year because there is going to be ANOTHER nfl wide receiver on the field.

After Morgan broke his leg, can anyone tell me the other nfl caliber wide receiver Alex had to choose from? Ginn? Edwards? Williams? Exactly.

Now there are 3 wide receivers a defense actually has to think about, not just 1.

Williams is an NFL Caliber WR, but the dude was only 23 years old.
  • pd24
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,038
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by Fal_Mc11:
I agree with most of the things you are saying. The most upsetting thing though is that most fans here in the WZ would rather see their ideas of failure come true rather than see the team winor players succeed. This "chicken little" mentality is sick and down right sad, I can't image other fans being this hard on a team that is once again successful and headed in the right direction after over a decade of stagnation.

Back on point:
Crabtree- For someone to say he is a bust is clearly wrong, he has improved every year that he has played for us. I do however believe he needs to put in "Jerry Rice effort" to be a great player, a player he is more than capable of becoming. I would like to see him work out with the team during the OTA's and not b***h out with some small injury. I would love to see him player and work on routes during preseason. I swear if he doesn't play in preseason again, I would then prepare to move on from the idea of him ever being a solid number #1. (As it seats today, he is a solid #2)

Moss-This is the wild card play and he came at no risk to us. Think what you want about Moss, but he has been a good teammate when with the Vikings and Patriots and his teammates had said so. I loved this pick up and I will tell you why. Cheap, little risk, he is a deep threat, and maybe finally having a winning WR on the team can push the young guys. I think he will surprise this year. (A year off has cleaned his mind and his body has heeled from football)

Manningham-I wasn't crazy about this pick, but still do not know the numbers of the contract. He looks the part of a solid #2, deep threat. Good hands. Underachiever, but could surprise this year. Till I know the contract numbers I can not say for sure if it is a good pick up or not, so I reserve comment till then.

Williams-Stop saying to cut the guy, he messed up and fans need to get over it. He looked good in player last year and would not cut a player for the sake of cutting someone. We need to have a players to replace him before he can be cut. Fans are crazy, this isn't Madden.

Serious stop with the draft Fleener stuff, unless he is BPA we will not be drafting a TE in the first. We need help on the O-line, at WR, at corner, at NT, and could use some depth at DE. We are not drafting Fleener, I think that is how you spell it, I actually hope someone drafts him before we pick to end the madness.

Yeah, this is a big debate (BPA) on the Draft boards. But we cannot draft yet another offensive lineman in the first two rounds, that would be a huge overinvestment there and, quite frankly, wasteful and unprecedented. Here's why we take Fleener:

1. We're loaded at corner
2. Drafting for depth on the DL is important, but the value isn't there
3. A rookie WR is unlikely to suit up for the 49ers in 2012.
4. Harbaugh runs 2 TE sets ALL THE TIME, sometimes going 3 TE. We need a solid 2nd TE to pair with VD.

#3 isn't true at all. If we draft a WR in the first 3 rounds, the dude will get on the field this year. You act like we have a bunch of All Pros running around at WR. right now it is patchwork and either making Wallace an offer or a rookie make it whole.
Originally posted by HessianDud:
the condescension of MadDog finally melds with the frequency and redundancy of nickbradley.

Dropped passes are not official stats, especially dropped td's, off the top of my head I can remember at least 2 on vernon davis alone. Blocks are probably one of the biggest ones not measured in stats, and credit crabtree, walker, and williams all deserve indefinetely. Without without williams block on will smith (I think it was smith) alex doesn't run the first td in the saints game, and I'm tired of the crap about anyone can make that block williams is 5'9 or 10 185 lbs blocking a full size linebacker actually a little bigger then full size, and leveled him out, anyways. I think delanie may be semi overated mut not by the exaguratted ammount everyone who wants to draft fleener is saying, he was our only receiving TE for the first half of the season due to Davis having to block while he was learning the playbook. Look I'm not saying your right or wrong I'm just saying you can't put a team together based entirely on stats. Just like you shouldn't and no one else should really judge a player entirely off stats.
Great post. But here's the problem. Alex Smith has an alarmingly number of stalking/excuse making fans. So when people question just how "good" his 90 QB rating was with the 29th ranked passing attack....These fans jump to any excuses they can find, and the o-line and receivers are prime for the taking. He could have Jerry Rice in his prime but if Jerry happened to drop a pass at some point during the season these fans would be talking about it for the rest of the season. What will happen this season? Well there are already excuses built in. 1) Crabtree's a diva who is "slow". 2) Moss is a locker room cancer who "quits on his routes" 3) Manningham is overrated and can't run precision routes. I can guarantee all of these excuses and false accusations will be said about our receivers next season. It's just a fact.
And the people who say Manningham is just a #3 are the types of fans I'm talking about. Anyone who has seen him play know he his a high end #2 with #1 potential, but because of the built-in excuses we have to make, these fans say Manningham is just a #3 and that our receivers still suck. I'd also add that it's not just the fans, it's the alex excuse makers in the media, mainly Matt Maiocco and Matt Barrows.
Sorry, you can have all the stat's you want - Crabs is NOT a #1 in the sense that defenses have to game plan for him.

A #1 receiver is a game breaker consistently - Crab's is RARELY a game breaker.

A #1 receiver is a threat where ever they are on the field -- deep, middle, shallow, sideline, etc -- and not afraid of contact!! Crab's is not a threat to a defense, he shys away from contact, pulling up on routes and tipping the ball, and besides his occassional attempts at jukes, he goes down on first contact.

A true #1 is such a good route runner, so willing to go across the middle that defenses can't predict where he will go, and fast enough to break wide open at least a couple of times a game -- and I mean being more than a few steps open with a defender still working to stay close or closing. Think Vincent Jackson, Megatron, Andre Johnson, even DeShaun Jackson, etc, at least a couple of times a game these guys break a defense with their speed and route running that busts a defense.

He would be a great #2, IF we had a true #1.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,043
I use and like statistics, but I am also wary.




"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."---Mark Twain, 1906

Originally posted by ReceiverPwnage:
And the people who say Manningham is just a #3 are the types of fans I'm talking about. Anyone who has seen him play know he his a high end #2 with #1 potential, but because of the built-in excuses we have to make, these fans say Manningham is just a #3 and that our receivers still suck. I'd also add that it's not just the fans, it's the alex excuse makers in the media, mainly Matt Maiocco and Matt Barrows.

Interesting posts for your first couple. Been here before?
Originally posted by pd24:
#3 isn't true at all. If we draft a WR in the first 3 rounds, the dude will get on the field this year. You act like we have a bunch of All Pros running around at WR. right now it is patchwork and either making Wallace an offer or a rookie make it whole.

OK Then, where is a rookie on the depth chart?

1. Moss
2. Crabtree
3. Manningham
4. Williams
HearstFan is another example. If you think Crabtree shies from contact....you haven't watched him play. That has to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard. As for not a "gamebreaker".....a 5.2 YAC average sounds good to me, but of course not good enough for the pathetic alex fans.
ReceiverPwnage yes its the alex fans only who point out the obvious mistakes of the receivers.