The Total Inability of 49er Fans to Understand Receiver Performance

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
ok.

this is actually a decent enough topic but the title is a little unnecessary, IMO.

It was necessary because most of the people on this board ignore stats. Even after I posted them, people DENY. They DENY that Walker is a lousy tight end, they DENY that Manningham is a #1 or 1a, etc.

if you made a thread for every logical assumption or factual based argument that Niner Talk ignores or denies, then you'd be constantly making threads.

wait a minute...

i pretty much agree with your posts. i still am unsure of crabs, it could be because of our type of offense, but to me he drops to many balls and sometimes disappears. but i do think he has the tools to become a true #1, hopefully moss can bring that out of him. also, i am a big moss fan. he has always been my favorite non-49er and i think he'll be a big help. i was also a fan of manningham and wanted us to go after him before FA started, im glad he's here and think he is an upgrade from morgan(i was a morgan fan as well). and williams was a good players last year and i see no need to cut him.

as far as fleener is concerned. i wouldnt mind drafting him, just not in the 1st. TE is not a need and to draft a #2 TE in the 1st i think makes no sense. he is by far an upgrade to walker, but i think the pick could be used better. getting a TE a little later makes more sense to me.

Originally posted by HessianDud:
if you made a thread for every logical assumption or factual based argument that Niner Talk ignores or denies, then you'd be constantly making threads.

wait a minute...

This topic has not been discussed.

Good overall post.

But I bed to differ with you on Crab's:

Yes his numbers are improving and I think they will get slightly better this year.

Problem for you and him is: he is too slow, not quick enough to get seperation on his own, still drops too many balls and a true #1 would have to have the great numbers while beating a double team or a true shut dowm corner every Sunday.

Sorry but he can barely beat an average corner = #2

Originally posted by niners9:
i pretty much agree with your posts. i still am unsure of crabs, it could be because of our type of offense, but to me he drops to many balls and sometimes disappears. but i do think he has the tools to become a true #1, hopefully moss can bring that out of him. also, i am a big moss fan. he has always been my favorite non-49er and i think he'll be a big help. i was also a fan of manningham and wanted us to go after him before FA started, im glad he's here and think he is an upgrade from morgan(i was a morgan fan as well). and williams was a good players last year and i see no need to cut him.

as far as fleener is concerned. i wouldnt mind drafting him, just not in the 1st. TE is not a need and to draft a #2 TE in the 1st i think makes no sense. he is by far an upgrade to walker, but i think the pick could be used better. getting a TE a little later makes more sense to me.

Again, stats are your friend. Crabtree caught 64% of passes that targeted him, including lousy ones that are uncatchable. That's a pretty high rate. It was 55% and 56% in 2009 and 2010.

Drafting two awesome tight ends worked out very well for the Patriots...

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
if you made a thread for every logical assumption or factual based argument that Niner Talk ignores or denies, then you'd be constantly making threads.

wait a minute...

This topic has not been discussed.

Probably because we have Teh Inabilateez to Undrstandz!

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Probably because we have Teh Inabilateez to Undrstandz!

Or you just deny stats...

Originally posted by rk1642:
Good overall post.

But I bed to differ with you on Crab's:

Yes his numbers are improving and I think they will get slightly better this year.

Problem for you and him is: he is too slow, not quick enough to get seperation on his own, still drops too many balls and a true #1 would have to have the great numbers while beating a double team or a true shut dowm corner every Sunday.

Sorry but he can barely beat an average corner = #2

But he catches 64% of targeted passes.

I believe he can be way, way better.

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Probably because we have Teh Inabilateez to Undrstandz!

Or you just deny stats...

Actually, I agree with your post... I just think the condescending title & attitude was unnecessary.

I agree with most of the things you are saying. The most upsetting thing though is that most fans here in the WZ would rather see their ideas of failure come true rather than see the team winor players succeed. This "chicken little" mentality is sick and down right sad, I can't image other fans being this hard on a team that is once again successful and headed in the right direction after over a decade of stagnation.

Back on point:
Crabtree- For someone to say he is a bust is clearly wrong, he has improved every year that he has played for us. I do however believe he needs to put in "Jerry Rice effort" to be a great player, a player he is more than capable of becoming. I would like to see him work out with the team during the OTA's and not b***h out with some small injury. I would love to see him player and work on routes during preseason. I swear if he doesn't play in preseason again, I would then prepare to move on from the idea of him ever being a solid number #1. (As it seats today, he is a solid #2)

Moss-This is the wild card play and he came at no risk to us. Think what you want about Moss, but he has been a good teammate when with the Vikings and Patriots and his teammates had said so. I loved this pick up and I will tell you why. Cheap, little risk, he is a deep threat, and maybe finally having a winning WR on the team can push the young guys. I think he will surprise this year. (A year off has cleaned his mind and his body has heeled from football)

Manningham-I wasn't crazy about this pick, but still do not know the numbers of the contract. He looks the part of a solid #2, deep threat. Good hands. Underachiever, but could surprise this year. Till I know the contract numbers I can not say for sure if it is a good pick up or not, so I reserve comment till then.

Williams-Stop saying to cut the guy, he messed up and fans need to get over it. He looked good in player last year and would not cut a player for the sake of cutting someone. We need to have a players to replace him before he can be cut. Fans are crazy, this isn't Madden.

Serious stop with the draft Fleener stuff, unless he is BPA we will not be drafting a TE in the first. We need help on the O-line, at WR, at corner, at NT, and could use some depth at DE. We are not drafting Fleener, I think that is how you spell it, I actually hope someone drafts him before we pick to end the madness.

Or we don't overobsess about stats like a raging fantasy football addict. Look I know stats are good but there's a lot of things that this group does and does not do that arent measured in stats.

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by rk1642:
Good overall post.

But I bed to differ with you on Crab's:

Yes his numbers are improving and I think they will get slightly better this year.

Problem for you and him is: he is too slow, not quick enough to get seperation on his own, still drops too many balls and a true #1 would have to have the great numbers while beating a double team or a true shut dowm corner every Sunday.

Sorry but he can barely beat an average corner = #2

But he catches 64% of targeted passes.

I believe he can be way, way better.

Why don't you cut Plax some slack on his state for it being his 1st year back after getting out of the Pen.

Originally posted by nickbradley:
So if Crabtree can improve dramatically without showing up to camp, what will he do if he actaully shows up? Pro Bowl. Boom!

LOL Let's hope so!

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Actually, I agree with your post... I just think the condescending title & attitude was unnecessary.

But its true. Just like we're all spoiled when it comes to quarterbacks.

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Or we don't overobsess about stats like a raging fantasy football addict. Look I know stats are good but there's a lot of things that this group does and does not do that arent measured in stats.

other than blocking, what can't you tell? Because FO stats adjust for "clutchness" and whatnot.