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The Total Inability of 49er Fans to Understand Receiver Performance

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Fleener would be great! But TE isn't as pressing of a need as you make it out to be. If it makes you feel better the 49ers have drafted a TE in the last several drafts, other than last year, so look for another TE draft pick this year.

TE might not be a need, but red-zone scoring and improved 3rd down conversion rate is, if Fleener helps with both of those, who gives a f**k what position he plays? Being able to put out 2 #1 TE's on the field makes life a nightmare for the defense and makes life a hell of a lot easier for a QB who hates to throw into tight windows and routinely overthrows his under-sized receivers.

That is exactly why I wouldn't trip if we draft Fleener. It would be awesome. But if he's there and we don't draft him, you won't see me . Unless he turns out to be a beast, but that nobody knows. Hindsight is a b***h.
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by Howlett49:
And that makes Williams a stud how? Even more of a reason a little guy is at a disadvantage to a guy Moss' size. At least Alex has a better shot at connecting with a big target like Moss than hitting a smaller area for Williams.

Umm, you pointed out that he had a bad NFC Championship game to refute my points about the regular season. So I point out that Alex Smith did not have a good game.

Wes Welker must be at a huge disadvantage...

No, he has Tom Brady. Williams was good during the regular season because he was an unknown. He was probably not a 1st option on any given play he was in. So when Williams was targeted it was because of the read and he was open. If defenses start gameplaning and accounting for Williams, because he is a stud as you suggest, his stats per play would decrease. The more he is used the harder it would be for him to maintain those numbers.

Answer this nickbradley
Actually nick kronik hit the nail on the head, this is pretty much a draft fleener campaign. It does promote the receivers we have and there awesomeness, and singles out a tight end just to show he can be replaced by fleener in the draft. Pretty much the same way Phoenixs thread about walker did also. Now if fleener truly is a jimmy graham clone, I'm all for moving walker to a situational te, but not in favor of cutting him. If you base all of your speculation (and yes all it is is speculation) off of stats its still a 50/50 chance you end up dissapionted because stats only reflect on past perfomance and there is no telling what they do in the future.
Originally posted by ReceiverPwnage:
Great post. But here's the problem. Alex Smith has an alarmingly number of stalking/excuse making fans. So when people question just how "good" his 90 QB rating was with the 29th ranked passing attack....These fans jump to any excuses they can find, and the o-line and receivers are prime for the taking. He could have Jerry Rice in his prime but if Jerry happened to drop a pass at some point during the season these fans would be talking about it for the rest of the season. What will happen this season? Well there are already excuses built in. 1) Crabtree's a diva who is "slow". 2) Moss is a locker room cancer who "quits on his routes" 3) Manningham is overrated and can't run precision routes. I can guarantee all of these excuses and false accusations will be said about our receivers next season. It's just a fact.

To add to this, there are other built in excuses for next year anyways, including harder schedule. So, if we don't do so well next year it still won't be Alex Smith's fault.
Originally posted by Howlett49:
That is exactly why I wouldn't trip if we draft Fleener. It would be awesome. But if he's there and we don't draft him, you won't see me . Unless he turns out to be a beast, but that nobody knows. Hindsight is a b***h.

The thing that bugs me is all the people who think that a team HAS to have 3 WR's out there, a 2 TE set works just as well, if not better if you have two big guys who can run and catch like WR's but also can block their asses off and make plays all over the field.

You could have fun and put out lineups like WR#1 Crabtree, WR#2 Manningham TE#1VD, TE#Fleener with Gore in the backfield. Now it might be a running play with the tight ends staying in to block, or VD and Manningham might be going while Crabtre and Fleener are going across the middle of the field and Gore as a blocker/additional receiver out of the backfield. That's tough for any team to defend, no matter how you slice it.


The most important justification for Fleener is to look at who's playing QB. If its Manning or Brees out there, then I agree, Fleener is a luxury. The quarterback is Alex Smith, he gets flustered at times, throws the ball high, is very conservative, needs a big window, so give him a huge target who can go up and make the plays happen.


Now as I said before, if Hill is there, then it becomes a tough decision because Hill can do a lot of these same things, even if he's a lot more raw, he's also a very good blocker but if he's not, to me, Fleener is the guy who would have the biggest immediate and most profound impact on this offense of anyone they could draft this year.
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Actually nick kronik hit the nail on the head, this is pretty much a draft fleener campaign. It does promote the receivers we have and there awesomeness, and singles out a tight end just to show he can be replaced by fleener in the draft. Pretty much the same way Phoenixs thread about walker did also. Now if fleener truly is a jimmy graham clone, I'm all for moving walker to a situational te, but not in favor of cutting him. If you base all of your speculation (and yes all it is is speculation) off of stats its still a 50/50 chance you end up dissapionted because stats only reflect on past perfomance and there is no telling what they do in the future.

Bottomline, I trust Harbaugh to know Fleener better than any single scout out there. If he's there at 30 and the 49ers DON'T take him, then I think its a sign that Fleener isn't as good as advertised because Harbaugh sure loves his TE's and a TE'-based offense. So eitherway, I'm not going to be upset. Of course if he gets picked a lot sooner and tears s**t up, I'll be talking mad trash to all the nay-sayers.
Originally posted by Bootlegger:
To add to this, there are other built in excuses for next year anyways, including harder schedule. So, if we don't do so well next year it still won't be Alex Smith's fault.

I think you can do things to minimize his weaknesses, he throws the ball f**king high....okay, so go get him a big, steady target who can go up and get the ball. He's got one big target in Moss, adding Hill or Fleener would give him another. I think by having that bigger window, he becomes more comfortable and plays even better by having that added level of confidence that if he gets into trouble, he chuck it somewhat high and still have a guy make a play on the ball.


Take Stafford as an example, he's a good but not great quarterback, he continually makes mistakes and bad decisions but he's a cocky b*****d because he knows he can throw it up to Megatron, like 2 feet over his head and the guy will still come down with the ball. I think giving Alex a couple "safety valves" would further help him progress as a quarterback and improve his performance all-around.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Mar 21, 2012 at 2:56 PM ]
Originally posted by mikeyrocks:
I'm surprised it took you over 2000 posts to realize most posters on this forum are the off spring of Skip Bayless.

A year ago most posters wanted to grab their pitch forks and burn Alex Smith's house down and hang him from a tree.

Now they want to line up for a chance to blow him.

where does the line start?
Originally posted by HearstFan:
Originally posted by ReceiverPwnage:
HearstFan is another example. If you think Crabtree shies from contact....you haven't watched him play. That has to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard. As for not a "gamebreaker".....a 5.2 YAC average sounds good to me, but of course not good enough for the pathetic alex fans.

You're right, having not missed a game in 7 years, and only 3 since 1979, I haven't watched enough play. And with game rewind on NFL, with the luxury of being able to rewatch specific plays over and over, again, you are right.

Why don't you create a Crab's highlight real of him being a #1 caliber receiver? Show me where he breaks free, dominates coverage, etc. Good luch with that, you won't find it. Oh wait, he caught that one long reception last season for a TD - as did a hundred other no-name receivers that got lucky on one play last year, and they are all #1s too.

Would just like to give a big F*** Y** to all the Crabtree haters. I have faith in you Crabtree even if other fans don't.








Originally posted by shinndiesel:
Originally posted by mikeyrocks:
I'm surprised it took you over 2000 posts to realize most posters on this forum are the off spring of Skip Bayless.

A year ago most posters wanted to grab their pitch forks and burn Alex Smith's house down and hang him from a tree.

Now they want to line up for a chance to blow him.

where does the line start?

behind me
Phoenix I'm right there with you harbaughs analisys on fleener is the bottom line of what I trust more also. And all that really matters.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The thing that bugs me is all the people who think that a team HAS to have 3 WR's out there, a 2 TE set works just as well, if not better if you have two big guys who can run and catch like WR's but also can block their asses off and make plays all over the field.

You could have fun and put out lineups like WR#1 Crabtree, WR#2 Manningham TE#1VD, TE#Fleener with Gore in the backfield. Now it might be a running play with the tight ends staying in to block, or VD and Manningham might be going while Crabtre and Fleener are going across the middle of the field and Gore as a blocker/additional receiver out of the backfield. That's tough for any team to defend, no matter how you slice it.


The most important justification for Fleener is to look at who's playing QB. If its Manning or Brees out there, then I agree, Fleener is a luxury. The quarterback is Alex Smith, he gets flustered at times, throws the ball high, is very conservative, needs a big window, so give him a huge target who can go up and make the plays happen.


Now as I said before, if Hill is there, then it becomes a tough decision because Hill can do a lot of these same things, even if he's a lot more raw, he's also a very good blocker but if he's not, to me, Fleener is the guy who would have the biggest immediate and most profound impact on this offense of anyone they could draft this year.

Very good points. I like 2 TE sets better than 3 WRs as well. 2 TEs really help in the run game. I think we are on the same page. After under valuing his Stanford guys last year I think HarBaalke will make an attempt to go out and grab some.
Originally posted by Howlett49:
Very good points. I like 2 TE sets better than 3 WRs as well. 2 TEs really help in the run game. I think we are on the same page. After under valuing his Stanford guys last year I think HarBaalke will make an attempt to go out and grab some.

Would love to see Owusu later on in the draft, that is a total boom or bust pick but if he can stay healthy, he'd be a great addition, especially in the 5th...6th rounds.
Originally posted by Bootlegger:
Originally posted by HearstFan:
Originally posted by ReceiverPwnage:
HearstFan is another example. If you think Crabtree shies from contact....you haven't watched him play. That has to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard. As for not a "gamebreaker".....a 5.2 YAC average sounds good to me, but of course not good enough for the pathetic alex fans.

You're right, having not missed a game in 7 years, and only 3 since 1979, I haven't watched enough play. And with game rewind on NFL, with the luxury of being able to rewatch specific plays over and over, again, you are right.

Why don't you create a Crab's highlight real of him being a #1 caliber receiver? Show me where he breaks free, dominates coverage, etc. Good luch with that, you won't find it. Oh wait, he caught that one long reception last season for a TD - as did a hundred other no-name receivers that got lucky on one play last year, and they are all #1s too.

Would just like to give a big F*** Y** to all the Crabtree haters. I have faith in you Crabtree even if other fans don't.









Hrmmm....those last 2 videos look familiar......
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Hrmmm....those last 2 videos look familiar......

Did you make those Marvin? I've seen your vids. They're good!