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What is the 49ers plan for the OL and protecting Alex Smith going forward?

Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Boone and Kilgor are completly unproven.......Yet they are the champion Olinemen of Niner talk. Davis is a solid tackle with a very, very nasty mean streak. He's only going to get better. All Boone has been able to do in his NFL career is lose wieght, good for him. Maybe he should start doing commericals with Jennifer Hudson (I know I wouldn't mind... )

Anyway, I dont know why, but these kind of threads really piss me off.
Boone has done well in spot duty....Kilgore nobody knows

Spot duty, as in Dlinemen and Passrushers haven't had a chance to study his tendencys. He had a good game against an emerging stud in Campbell. I'm glad for him. But to talk about replacing a probowl LT or a 22 yr RT in Davis is way too premature. In addition, Kilgore hasn't proven anything, yet he gets talked about like he's the next Anthony Munoz....
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Boone and Kilgor are completly unproven.......Yet they are the champion Olinemen of Niner talk. Davis is a solid tackle with a very, very nasty mean streak. He's only going to get better. All Boone has been able to do in his NFL career is lose wieght, good for him. Maybe he should start doing commericals with Jennifer Hudson (I know I wouldn't mind... )

Anyway, I dont know why, but these kind of threads really piss me off.
Boone has done well in spot duty....Kilgore nobody knows

Spot duty, as in Dlinemen and Passrushers haven't had a chance to study his tendencys. He had a good game against an emerging stud in Campbell. I'm glad for him. But to talk about replacing a probowl LT or a 22 yr RT in Davis is way too premature. In addition, Kilgore hasn't proven anything, yet he gets talked about like he's the next Anthony Munoz....

Its the same argument people made to replace Alex with Kap....expecting unproven inexperienced guys to be guaranteed is nuts. I hope kilgore is great but I would rather wait and see.

Don't forget Boone was ready to fight in the Detroit fiasco....I love Boone screaming at people.

yeah thats what i love about boone. id love him and davis on the same side. thats a lot of anger.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by Bootlegger:
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by Squidp:
Based on what?

Wow someone must have a high football IQ to determine someone who we've hardly seen play is better than our All Pro and Pro Bowl starter

Well Boone comes in on the jumbo formations and he played for Staley against the Cardinals when Staley was injured. I thought he performed very well, in fact I thought he had an easier time versus Dockett than Staley did. Staley sometimes will completely whiff blocks. I must admit my analysis is off of limited playing time, but I just think Boone has looked really solid when he's in the game, and have never seen him get beat like Staley or Davis have.

The front office must think something of him as well since they signed him to a 4 year extension.

So you're saying that you would rather see Boone start over Staley or Davis? Just like in another thread you stated you would rather see Kap or Tolzein start over Smith? I'm beginning to see a pattern here. You sure put a lot of faith in players you've barely seen play.

The players you are advocating are depth. They will remain depth until they unseat the starters by taking advantage of playing time due to injury. Then we'll see.

As i stated in a previous post when responding to these statements by Jreff in another thread...
------


Not to be rude to those people [referring to people who think Kaepernick can come in do the same thing Alex Smith can do] but I don't think they understand the complexity of an actual system. If the NFL was that easy everybody would do it...yet only 32 guys in the world play the position on a full time basis....find me another job with that kind of statistic. To put it into perspective there are more astronauts at NASA then starting QB's in the NFL. We have more people certified to go to the moon then we have starting QB's.

Assuming you are trying to compare the difficulty at which someone can fill in for a QB and succeed to the ease at which someone can fill in for an astronaut and succeed, and in the end come to the conclusion that Kaepernick would not perform as well as Smith is bonkers given the comparison.

Astronauts may be selected for their skill set, intelligence, physical attributes, learning ability, physical shape, performance under stress, or any of a variety of other attributes. QBs may be selected by NFL teams based on these attributes and maybe other attributes such as release, touch, accuracy, etc. So before a QB gets into the NFL they are specially selected to a professional team, and in the case of Kaepernick, Harbaugh and Baalke personally selected him. Same with astronauts. Before they become an astronaut they are tested and specially selected by NASA. So, both QBs and astronauts are chosen for their attributes because based on these attributes people believe they can succeed.

After being selected, Astronauts are vigorously trained and educated to become an astronaut so that they will be able to perform their missions. Before their missions, they partake in simulated missions to better understand how everything will proceed during the actual mission. QBs are being trained their whole life, but the real training begins in College and really shifts into gear if/when they reach the pros. I have little double our alternate astronauts can replace our primary astronauts and perform just as well given how intense, as you mentioned, the selection process is to become an astronaut as there are so few of them. Do we know how they will perform? No, because we have not given them the chance. Have we set them up to be able to complete their mission given the training we have provided them? I think so. Are we confident that they can perform their mission given the training and simulations? I would think so.

Both astronauts and backup QBs have been trained to be able to succeed in carrying out their mission. In our case since Harbaugh and Baalke personally chose Kaepernick by moving up in the draft to select him, I have just as much confidence that he can take over the offense and perform competently as an alternate astronaut could.

In Kaepernick's case, Harbaugh is training him so that he will be able to perform our offense during game time and help our team to achieve victory. Because Kaepernick is our second string QB he runs our offense 60-70% of the time during practices and the opponents offense 30-40% of the time, and thus has simulated running our offense so as to be able to step in and perform our offense and achieve victory. In this particular instance, Smith runs our offense 100% during practices against our 2nd string defense and has played almost 100% of all regular season and post season games this year. So while Smith has the experience, Kaepernick has still simulated our offense most of the practices for an entire season against our 1st string defense. A defense which is better than every other defense in the league, in my honest opinion. I believe these simulations enable Kaepernick to be able to perform our offense as Harbaugh envisions it, just as an astronaut could perform his/her mission.

However, there are some things that one just can't teach, so there is always an element of unknown as to how someone will perform if they have never completed a space mission or performed a particular offensive system. These are things like performance under an emergency situation, e.g. down by 7 with 1 minute left to go in the game or, in an astronauts case, a malfunction in the control system of the shuttle. Maybe a certain astronaut or QB is naturally great at reacting quickly and selecting the best option available when under duress or pressure. Who knows? Do we know that Kaepernick will perform better than Smith? No. Do we know that Kaepernick will perform worst than Smith. No. Why? Because there are some variables we cannot factor in until it actually happens. Is it riskier to start Kaepernick than Smith? Yes, but only because do not know the extent of Kaepernick's capabilities.

Really, how one comes out on the Smith versus Kaepernick dilemma depends on their level of aversion to risk given the fact that we went 13-3 last season and made it to the NFC Championship Game. If you are more averse to risk, then you are going to choose Alex Smith as our starting QB because you believe he is the safe choice to get us to 13-3 again and you know how capable Alex is. If you are less averse to risk, then you are going to choose Kaepernick (or if you are me, Tolzien) because you believe that given one year in the system, which includes simulating practices under the direction of our very competent coaching staff, that either is perfectly capable of performing our offense, but you are not sure how well because we have not seen their ability to react under pressure for an entire game or season or other such variables that we just can't possibly measure until we put them into that position. One's choice in Tolzien or Kaepernick may be based on the aforementioned, but could also include the same considerations that those choosing Alex use: you know his capabilities, but in this case you have an unjustifiable belief that Kaepernick or Tolzien can exceed Alex's capabilities.

Obviously, other factors could come into play as well.
------
So I guess call me less risk averse than others... But I am not at all that impressed by Staley and would rather have Boone in at Left Tackle.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Boone and Kilgor are completly unproven.......Yet they are the champion Olinemen of Niner talk. Davis is a solid tackle with a very, very nasty mean streak. He's only going to get better. All Boone has been able to do in his NFL career is lose wieght, good for him. Maybe he should start doing commericals with Jennifer Hudson (I know I wouldn't mind... )

Anyway, I dont know why, but these kind of threads really piss me off.

You must understand, this is NOT a suggestion I'm throwing out, it's a question for everyone else to answer or consider with the moves we've made and the holes we have. Nothing more than that. In fact, I think our best option right now is to draft potential starting RG and C to replace our weakest links which were Goodwin and the departed Snyder.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Boone and Kilgor are completly unproven.......Yet they are the champion Olinemen of Niner talk. Davis is a solid tackle with a very, very nasty mean streak. He's only going to get better. All Boone has been able to do in his NFL career is lose wieght, good for him. Maybe he should start doing commericals with Jennifer Hudson (I know I wouldn't mind... )

Anyway, I dont know why, but these kind of threads really piss me off.
Boone has done well in spot duty....Kilgore nobody knows

Spot duty, as in Dlinemen and Passrushers haven't had a chance to study his tendencys. He had a good game against an emerging stud in Campbell. I'm glad for him. But to talk about replacing a probowl LT or a 22 yr RT in Davis is way too premature. In addition, Kilgore hasn't proven anything, yet he gets talked about like he's the next Anthony Munoz....

Its the same argument people made to replace Alex with Kap....expecting unproven inexperienced guys to be guaranteed is nuts. I hope kilgore is great but I would rather wait and see.

Don't forget Boone was ready to fight in the Detroit fiasco....I love Boone screaming at people.


And that's my whole point, I know you have more sense than that....
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Boone and Kilgor are completly unproven.......Yet they are the champion Olinemen of Niner talk. Davis is a solid tackle with a very, very nasty mean streak. He's only going to get better. All Boone has been able to do in his NFL career is lose wieght, good for him. Maybe he should start doing commericals with Jennifer Hudson (I know I wouldn't mind... )

Anyway, I dont know why, but these kind of threads really piss me off.

You must understand, this is NOT a suggestion I'm throwing out, it's a question for everyone else to answer or consider with the moves we've made and the holes we have. Nothing more than that. In fact, I think our best option right now is to draft potential starting RG and C to replace our weakest links which were Goodwin and the departed Snyder.

Sometimes it just seems the Zone is too quick to judge a player and its a pet pieve (spelling?) of mine.

. I agree that the interior line is our weakness and that should be the focus in the draft and FA. I hope we can get Schwartz and continue to let last years rookies develop. Also, I would like to see us draft Goodwins replacement in a decent round. I think he's servicable, but we could definitly upgrade. A 1-3rd round center would be nice.
At some point I'd like our coaching staff to be able to turn a later round guy into a starter! How many teams do you all know of that have had to use a 1st or 2nd round pick across the entire line? Nobody does that, they might have 1 or 2 but they also have later round guys they develope. We can't seem to do that.

I don't want to have to spend another 1st or 2nd round pick on a RG!!! Move guys around or get Kilgore to step up.

You know how much money we'd have tied up in our oline alone if we have to draft another oline in rd 1 or 2? Its nuts.
Originally posted by rk1642:
At some point I'd like our coaching staff to be able to turn a later round guy into a starter! How many teams do you all know of that have had to use a 1st or 2nd round pick across the entire line? Nobody does that, they might have 1 or 2 but they also have later round guys they develope. We can't seem to do that.

I don't want to have to spend another 1st or 2nd round pick on a RG!!! Move guys around or get Kilgore to step up.

You know how much money we'd have tied up in our oline alone if we have to draft another oline in rd 1 or 2? Its nuts.
I'm sure we'll disagree, but I think a lot of teams that can plug and play low draft lineman have "elite" QBs. It's always the crappy QBs that have "horrible lines." Sometimes its the QB and sometimes its the line. It can even be a combo as nothing is ever black and white. But it takes more than stats to figure out who's dragging who down.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:


Boone and Kilgor are completly unproven.......Yet they are the champion Olinemen of Niner talk. Davis is a solid tackle with a very, very nasty mean streak. He's only going to get better. All Boone has been able to do in his NFL career is lose wieght, good for him. Maybe he should start doing commericals with Jennifer Hudson (I know I wouldn't mind... )

Anyway, I dont know why, but these kind of threads really piss me off.
Boone has done well in spot duty....Kilgore nobody knows

Spot duty, as in Dlinemen and Passrushers haven't had a chance to study his tendencys. He had a good game against an emerging stud in Campbell. I'm glad for him. But to talk about replacing a probowl LT or a 22 yr RT in Davis is way too premature. In addition, Kilgore hasn't proven anything, yet he gets talked about like he's the next Anthony Munoz....

Its the same argument people made to replace Alex with Kap....expecting unproven inexperienced guys to be guaranteed is nuts. I hope kilgore is great but I would rather wait and see.

Don't forget Boone was ready to fight in the Detroit fiasco....I love Boone screaming at people.


And that's my whole point, I know you have more sense than that....
[ Edited by jreff22 on Mar 20, 2012 at 10:09 PM ]
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,399
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
I honestly wouldn't mind trying out Davis at LT where he was in college. And sending staley back to RT where we originally had him
Yeah, just switch Staley and Davis and be done with it.
Trade up for David DeCastro. We need to protect the franchise QB
Originally posted by rk1642:
At some point I'd like our coaching staff to be able to turn a later round guy into a starter! How many teams do you all know of that have had to use a 1st or 2nd round pick across the entire line? Nobody does that, they might have 1 or 2 but they also have later round guys they develope. We can't seem to do that.

I don't want to have to spend another 1st or 2nd round pick on a RG!!! Move guys around or get Kilgore to step up.

You know how much money we'd have tied up in our oline alone if we have to draft another oline in rd 1 or 2? Its nuts.
This, there's no way you're going to be able to hold on to all those guys, good teams develop their later round picks into at least serviceable starters.
Originally posted by Bootlegger:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by Bootlegger:
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by Squidp:
Based on what?

Wow someone must have a high football IQ to determine someone who we've hardly seen play is better than our All Pro and Pro Bowl starter

Well Boone comes in on the jumbo formations and he played for Staley against the Cardinals when Staley was injured. I thought he performed very well, in fact I thought he had an easier time versus Dockett than Staley did. Staley sometimes will completely whiff blocks. I must admit my analysis is off of limited playing time, but I just think Boone has looked really solid when he's in the game, and have never seen him get beat like Staley or Davis have.

The front office must think something of him as well since they signed him to a 4 year extension.

So you're saying that you would rather see Boone start over Staley or Davis? Just like in another thread you stated you would rather see Kap or Tolzein start over Smith? I'm beginning to see a pattern here. You sure put a lot of faith in players you've barely seen play.

The players you are advocating are depth. They will remain depth until they unseat the starters by taking advantage of playing time due to injury. Then we'll see.

As i stated in a previous post when responding to these statements by Jreff in another thread...
------


Not to be rude to those people [referring to people who think Kaepernick can come in do the same thing Alex Smith can do] but I don't think they understand the complexity of an actual system. If the NFL was that easy everybody would do it...yet only 32 guys in the world play the position on a full time basis....find me another job with that kind of statistic. To put it into perspective there are more astronauts at NASA then starting QB's in the NFL. We have more people certified to go to the moon then we have starting QB's.

Assuming you are trying to compare the difficulty at which someone can fill in for a QB and succeed to the ease at which someone can fill in for an astronaut and succeed, and in the end come to the conclusion that Kaepernick would not perform as well as Smith is bonkers given the comparison.

Astronauts may be selected for their skill set, intelligence, physical attributes, learning ability, physical shape, performance under stress, or any of a variety of other attributes. QBs may be selected by NFL teams based on these attributes and maybe other attributes such as release, touch, accuracy, etc. So before a QB gets into the NFL they are specially selected to a professional team, and in the case of Kaepernick, Harbaugh and Baalke personally selected him. Same with astronauts. Before they become an astronaut they are tested and specially selected by NASA. So, both QBs and astronauts are chosen for their attributes because based on these attributes people believe they can succeed.

After being selected, Astronauts are vigorously trained and educated to become an astronaut so that they will be able to perform their missions. Before their missions, they partake in simulated missions to better understand how everything will proceed during the actual mission. QBs are being trained their whole life, but the real training begins in College and really shifts into gear if/when they reach the pros. I have little double our alternate astronauts can replace our primary astronauts and perform just as well given how intense, as you mentioned, the selection process is to become an astronaut as there are so few of them. Do we know how they will perform? No, because we have not given them the chance. Have we set them up to be able to complete their mission given the training we have provided them? I think so. Are we confident that they can perform their mission given the training and simulations? I would think so.

Both astronauts and backup QBs have been trained to be able to succeed in carrying out their mission. In our case since Harbaugh and Baalke personally chose Kaepernick by moving up in the draft to select him, I have just as much confidence that he can take over the offense and perform competently as an alternate astronaut could.

In Kaepernick's case, Harbaugh is training him so that he will be able to perform our offense during game time and help our team to achieve victory. Because Kaepernick is our second string QB he runs our offense 60-70% of the time during practices and the opponents offense 30-40% of the time, and thus has simulated running our offense so as to be able to step in and perform our offense and achieve victory. In this particular instance, Smith runs our offense 100% during practices against our 2nd string defense and has played almost 100% of all regular season and post season games this year. So while Smith has the experience, Kaepernick has still simulated our offense most of the practices for an entire season against our 1st string defense. A defense which is better than every other defense in the league, in my honest opinion. I believe these simulations enable Kaepernick to be able to perform our offense as Harbaugh envisions it, just as an astronaut could perform his/her mission.

However, there are some things that one just can't teach, so there is always an element of unknown as to how someone will perform if they have never completed a space mission or performed a particular offensive system. These are things like performance under an emergency situation, e.g. down by 7 with 1 minute left to go in the game or, in an astronauts case, a malfunction in the control system of the shuttle. Maybe a certain astronaut or QB is naturally great at reacting quickly and selecting the best option available when under duress or pressure. Who knows? Do we know that Kaepernick will perform better than Smith? No. Do we know that Kaepernick will perform worst than Smith. No. Why? Because there are some variables we cannot factor in until it actually happens. Is it riskier to start Kaepernick than Smith? Yes, but only because do not know the extent of Kaepernick's capabilities.

Really, how one comes out on the Smith versus Kaepernick dilemma depends on their level of aversion to risk given the fact that we went 13-3 last season and made it to the NFC Championship Game. If you are more averse to risk, then you are going to choose Alex Smith as our starting QB because you believe he is the safe choice to get us to 13-3 again and you know how capable Alex is. If you are less averse to risk, then you are going to choose Kaepernick (or if you are me, Tolzien) because you believe that given one year in the system, which includes simulating practices under the direction of our very competent coaching staff, that either is perfectly capable of performing our offense, but you are not sure how well because we have not seen their ability to react under pressure for an entire game or season or other such variables that we just can't possibly measure until we put them into that position. One's choice in Tolzien or Kaepernick may be based on the aforementioned, but could also include the same considerations that those choosing Alex use: you know his capabilities, but in this case you have an unjustifiable belief that Kaepernick or Tolzien can exceed Alex's capabilities.

Obviously, other factors could come into play as well.
------
So I guess call me less risk averse than others... But I am not at all that impressed by Staley and would rather have Boone in at Left Tackle.


Wall of text. TL;DR. lol
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
I honestly wouldn't mind trying out Davis at LT where he was in college. And sending staley back to RT where we originally had him
Yeah, just switch Staley and Davis and be done with it.


CHAMPIONSHIP!!!