Harbaugh's Offense, and the Wide Receiver

Originally posted by dj43:
Big tall guys like Graham and Gronkowski are certainly a big part of any good passing offense. However, so is the guy who can "take the lid off" the defense. That was the talk about what Ginn was supposed to do. It is clear they are not going to pay a #3 like Manningham #1 money just because he is better than what is already here. I agree with that approach.

I expect Baalke to take a shot at a home run hitter with the 2nd or 3rd round pick. The #1 is straight BPA in my judgement and perhaps that will be Fleener.

...... DJ43, you are a silly little troll.

What he needs now is a reliable 2nd receiver. Hopefully, now with Davis unavailable for a month, Nowin will see that Eric Johnson is, and should be, that guy.Yesterday the Eagles were double-covering Antonio Bryant much of the 1st half and daring Smith to try to find a second receiver. The fact that even the depleted Eagles secondary could still cover the rest of the 49er receivers 1-on-1 showed how weak Battle & Gilmore are at getting open. Finally in the 2nd half, Turner made the adjustment to go to Johnson.We should remember that Nowin and Turner have not seen Johnson at his best before yesterday. When he was last healthy they were not here. Hopefully, Turner will now turn it up for EJ, which will help Smith even more. The plays he was making yesterday were reminiscent of 3 years ago.

Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:

Originally posted by dj43:

Big tall guys like Graham and Gronkowski are certainly a big part of any good passing offense. However, so is the guy who can "take the lid off" the defense. That was the talk about what Ginn was supposed to do. It is clear they are not going to pay a #3 like Manningham #1 money just because he is better than what is already here. I agree with that approach.

I expect Baalke to take a shot at a home run hitter with the 2nd or 3rd round pick. The #1 is straight BPA in my judgement and perhaps that will be Fleener.

...... DJ43, you are a silly little troll.

Quote:

What he needs now is a reliable 2nd receiver. Hopefully, now with Davis unavailable for a month, Nowin will see that Eric Johnson is, and should be, that guy.Yesterday the Eagles were double-covering Antonio Bryant much of the 1st half and daring Smith to try to find a second receiver. The fact that even the depleted Eagles secondary could still cover the rest of the 49er receivers 1-on-1 showed how weak Battle & Gilmore are at getting open. Finally in the 2nd half, Turner made the adjustment to go to Johnson.We should remember that Nowin and Turner have not seen Johnson at his best before yesterday. When he was last healthy they were not here. Hopefully, Turner will now turn it up for EJ, which will help Smith even more. The plays he was making yesterday were reminiscent of 3 years ago.

His opinion changed in the last six years...so has the game. So what?

Originally posted by gage:

Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:

Originally posted by dj43:
Big tall guys like Graham and Gronkowski are certainly a big part of any good passing offense. However, so is the guy who can "take the lid off" the defense. That was the talk about what Ginn was supposed to do. It is clear they are not going to pay a #3 like Manningham #1 money just because he is better than what is already here. I agree with that approach.

I expect Baalke to take a shot at a home run hitter with the 2nd or 3rd round pick. The #1 is straight BPA in my judgement and perhaps that will be Fleener.

...... DJ43, you are a silly little troll.

Quote:

What he needs now is a reliable 2nd receiver. Hopefully, now with Davis unavailable for a month, Nowin will see that Eric Johnson is, and should be, that guy.Yesterday the Eagles were double-covering Antonio Bryant much of the 1st half and daring Smith to try to find a second receiver. The fact that even the depleted Eagles secondary could still cover the rest of the 49er receivers 1-on-1 showed how weak Battle & Gilmore are at getting open. Finally in the 2nd half, Turner made the adjustment to go to Johnson.We should remember that Nowin and Turner have not seen Johnson at his best before yesterday. When he was last healthy they were not here. Hopefully, Turner will now turn it up for EJ, which will help Smith even more. The plays he was making yesterday were reminiscent of 3 years ago.

His opinion changed in the last six years...so has the game. So what?

The more interesting part is that a "member" with 7 posts has a post saved from 6 years ago. Can you say PBM?

Originally posted by gage:
His opinion changed in the last six years...so has the game. So what?

No, he's been saying the exactly same crap, just with different players. Throughout the past 7 years, it's been the same old garbage - Alex is great, it's just that everyone else sucks. And *insert slow, mediocre player here* is the "best, most reliable target on the team." First it was Eric Johnson, then it was Joshua Morgan...what "non-flashy" player will be dj43's next theoretical Alex-helping boytoy?

dj43 loves the terrible players and bashes the good ones. Derek Smith (worst linebacker in NFL history) was his favorite player of all time.

I'd tend to agree with this post.

The 49ers also tend to cycle their receivers in quite a bit. I'm very curious about why they do that because it seems like their rotation of receivers is different from the norm. I honestly think Crabtree will barely break 1000 yards and the #2 and #3 receivers combined will only be 1000 yards, while the bulk of the yardage will go to Vernon Davis and whoever the #2 TE is (I think we're getting Fleener if he's there). One can hope, because that's already 3000+ yards before the Gore, Miller, #4 WR, and #3 TE get in on that action.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
I'd tend to agree with this post.

The 49ers also tend to cycle their receivers in quite a bit. I'm very curious about why they do that because it seems like their rotation of receivers is different from the norm. I honestly think Crabtree will barely break 1000 yards and the #2 and #3 receivers combined will only be 1000 yards, while the bulk of the yardage will go to Vernon Davis and whoever the #2 TE is (I think we're getting Fleener if he's there). One can hope, because that's already 3000+ yards before the Gore, Miller, #4 WR, and #3 TE get in on that action.

I think he had already figured out a few years ago, what New Orleans and New England got this past year. Tight Ends who are both good blockers and great receivers is the new wrinkle in the NFL. It absolutely confuses D Coordinators and insures major matchup issues. The difference is that JH will stretch the D to the max horizontally, vertically while forcing a focus in the box. He will make them play the run because this team will be able to do it on almost any play with their 2 TE grouping. He now has deep speed at WR(Moss/Ginn/VD) that must be respected which will certainly put the safeties in a continuing state of uncertainty. He will have a slot(I think it's KW) who will be our Welker and guys we can really be an problem in the intermediate routes like Crabs/Delanie/Manningham and stretch the field horizontally. Simply stated, on most plays the D will have to be prepared to defend every square inch of the field.

Originally posted by dj43:
Interesting take. IMO, the fact that Harbaugh has gone after two different big-play WRs (Edwards and Moss) the last two years indicates he WANTS a home run hitter but things have not fallen that way so far.

We haven't seen all of what JH has in mind.

which is why I think we draft S. Hill in the 1st round, IMO.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:
The more interesting part is that a "member" with 7 posts has a post saved from 6 years ago. Can you say PBM?

im glad people on this site still think this way.....how long have i followed this forum? check out my profile.....oh wait this is my 3rd account, and ive been reading and writing on this place since 03......dont judge knowledge based on number of posts and whether said person is a member or a "veteran". ooooooooo veteran..... please, it means nothing. im glad that when i came back i got lots of look at the noob replies. i know of guys on this site that have been here before half the mods were including my self. but you wouldnt know that since i dont have a gooble of post nuumbers. there is a lot of ignorance in this place(not saying you are ignorant) and is one of the reasons i stop posting so often.

Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:
...... DJ43, you are a silly little troll.

What he needs now is a reliable 2nd receiver. Hopefully, now with Davis unavailable for a month, Nowin will see that Eric Johnson is, and should be, that guy.Yesterday the Eagles were double-covering Antonio Bryant much of the 1st half and daring Smith to try to find a second receiver. The fact that even the depleted Eagles secondary could still cover the rest of the 49er receivers 1-on-1 showed how weak Battle & Gilmore are at getting open. Finally in the 2nd half, Turner made the adjustment to go to Johnson.We should remember that Nowin and Turner have not seen Johnson at his best before yesterday. When he was last healthy they were not here. Hopefully, Turner will now turn it up for EJ, which will help Smith even more. The plays he was making yesterday were reminiscent of 3 years ago.

Where did you pull this quote from? I might be a little worried if I was dj43.

Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:

Originally posted by dj43:
Big tall guys like Graham and Gronkowski are certainly a big part of any good passing offense. However, so is the guy who can "take the lid off" the defense. That was the talk about what Ginn was supposed to do. It is clear they are not going to pay a #3 like Manningham #1 money just because he is better than what is already here. I agree with that approach.

I expect Baalke to take a shot at a home run hitter with the 2nd or 3rd round pick. The #1 is straight BPA in my judgement and perhaps that will be Fleener.

...... DJ43, you are a silly little troll.

What he needs now is a reliable 2nd receiver. Hopefully, now with Davis unavailable for a month, Nowin will see that Eric Johnson is, and should be, that guy.Yesterday the Eagles were double-covering Antonio Bryant much of the 1st half and daring Smith to try to find a second receiver. The fact that even the depleted Eagles secondary could still cover the rest of the 49er receivers 1-on-1 showed how weak Battle & Gilmore are at getting open. Finally in the 2nd half, Turner made the adjustment to go to Johnson.We should remember that Nowin and Turner have not seen Johnson at his best before yesterday. When he was last healthy they were not here. Hopefully, Turner will now turn it up for EJ, which will help Smith even more. The plays he was making yesterday were reminiscent of 3 years ago.

Did you have a comment regarding DJ's comments from this thread or are you a site archaeologist? Seems like you have an agenda that adds little to the zone.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Watching what he did at Stanford, and what we did last year I am certain Harbaugh views the role of wide receiver differently than most. I don't think the every down short yardage run after the catch WR that is the NFL pro to type is what he is looking for, Crabtree is not a Harbaugh WR, but I don't think we will part ways with him. Harbaugh tends to let his tight ends do a lot of the short to mid-range receiving, and likes to use the recovers as deep strike threats to clear things for his ends and backs. Not really an attractive scheme for many receivers in the NFL.

This makes me think Ginn will be back, and we will talk to every deep threat speedster available, but in the end we may have to draft our guy. Judging from Harbaugh's past I think we will see a team this season with more backs and ends than we had last season, more beef on the O-line, Snyder was too small for what Harbaugh wants. We may only have 4 WR active on Game day, with 3-4 backs and 3-4 ends. Harbaugh will throw down field more if he has the WR's and the QB to do it, but he will never be "air Harbaugh" and that will hurt us when it comes to big name WR's free agents.

So don't panic there is a plan and as we saw last season, it is good one!

Who's got it better than us...NOBODY!

I have a hard time believing that we can talk realistically about Harbaugh's preferences after one year with the team. He did coach for seven years at the university level. Harbaugh coached Stanford for four years-2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010. Before that Harbaugh coached at the University of San Diego for three years—2004, 2005, and 2006.

Looking at the receiving stats from those years might give us a better understanding of how he would like to use wide receivers, tight ends, and running backs in the passing game.

My best guess Harbaugh wants to have the players required to give the team the ability to use a wide variety of alignments successfully.

I do not think that the stats below show that Harbaugh brought a strong preference for tight ends with him to the NFL.
I know that seems contrary to common belief in the forum, but that is how I see the statistics.

At Stanford:

Wide receivers caught 480 passes for 6,748 yards and 37 touchdowns.
Tight Ends caught 194 passes for 2,149 yards and 24 touchdowns.
Running Backs caught 159 passes for 1,486 yards and 8 touchdowns.

At the University of San Diego:

Wide receivers caught 532 passes for 7,471 yards and 74 touchdowns.
Tight ends caught 97 passes for 1,143 yards, and 12 touch downs.
Running backs caught 110 passes for 950 yards and 9 touchdowns.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
I hope we bring back Ginn...

I need dat 97 speed.

I hate to go back to a horrible return man. lol

I agree that he views wr different than most. I think he is not going to chuck Crab, but once that contract expires, the niners's may end up doing a tender on him at best. They are looking for that big physical wr, or at least the physical wr. He wouldn't mind a go to wr, but spreading the ball, maybe better as you never know who is gonna get it.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:
...... DJ43, you are a silly little troll.

What he needs now is a reliable 2nd receiver. Hopefully, now with Davis unavailable for a month, Nowin will see that Eric Johnson is, and should be, that guy.Yesterday the Eagles were double-covering Antonio Bryant much of the 1st half and daring Smith to try to find a second receiver. The fact that even the depleted Eagles secondary could still cover the rest of the 49er receivers 1-on-1 showed how weak Battle & Gilmore are at getting open. Finally in the 2nd half, Turner made the adjustment to go to Johnson.We should remember that Nowin and Turner have not seen Johnson at his best before yesterday. When he was last healthy they were not here. Hopefully, Turner will now turn it up for EJ, which will help Smith even more. The plays he was making yesterday were reminiscent of 3 years ago.

Where did you pull this quote from? I might be a little worried if I was dj43.

That's actually a fairly accurate assessment of the situation at the time. In his regard to wanting Eric Johnson involved more in the offense. It only made irrelevant now that Vernon Davis has become all that he can be of late. But back when in his early days VD had all the physical talent but he was very raw in his grasp of the offense and playing as a receiver TE in the NFL. Back when we had Norv Turner, I remember people were complaining that VD doesn't make that critical conversion catches that TE usually do. There's no question VD had more physical skill set than Eric Johnson, but at the time Johnson was no slouch and he certainly had more experience than VD and could have help with his smart veteran presence on the field for young Alex Smith. In today's NFL we could have kept both guys in, but at the time they didn't do that and ended up shipping Eric Johnson to New Orleans.

Dj43 was taking Eric Johnson as a smart vet over a young and raw VD at the time to help the offense convert and move the chains. I think he was more right than wrong at the time.

2006 was VD rookie year. All he wanted to do was be fast, physical and go deep. He hadn't realized the nuance of playing TE to help out move the chains with the offense in the NFL. So who's trolling now, bringing a post from 5 years ago when situation and player development was still in their early stage.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Good post.

My take is similar to yours. JH is VERY smart.

You play the hand your dealt - that's what he did all last season. We didn't have the WR who could get seperation so he beat the other teams with a VERY solid running game. When they really stacked the line he passed - like in the 1st Giants game.

If we have better weapons, faster receivers, we'll see more complex game plans.

I feel; so confident in the management and approach Baalke/JH take.

Agree. Completely trust in the organization to make the best use of the talent they have and be able to draft and attract the kind of players they want here on the 49ers!