Anyone else think Harbaalke is totally down with CK-2012?

Alex is Harbaugh's guy...he said in his Sunday interview he was fine with a 3-yr deal, so maybe it's his agent that's playing dumb. Whatever, he'll sign and start. I do fully expect Harbaugh to acquire Josh Johnson, though, as right now he has zero experienced b/u at the QB position.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by boast:
i think the OP is making threads out of every stray thought

fixed.

This

Originally posted by dj43:

Morgan was a nice backup-quality WR. He is not a quality starter in this league but he had a chance to go home and play before his hometown fans. Can't blame him for that. I wish him well.

Was thinks he's quality starter. So do we but we didn't want to pay as much.

Originally posted by rdc1:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

If they were down with CK, they wouldn't even make a contract offer to Smith.

It is clear the Niners are not committed to either QB right now. They are back in limbo mode. They probably offered a crappy 3-year deal to a guy who should probably warrent a deal similar to Ryan Fitzpatrick (this would be the logic from Smith's agent, Tom Condon). So, they do not feel sure that he is the face of the franchise.

On the flipside, they feel so little about CK in 2012, that they are offering a multi-year contract to Smith.

Honestly, I kinda hope Smith moves onto somewhere else. He is getting hosed by the organization at this point. Right now, we are committed to no one.

Not necessarily. They have Kaep locked up on his initial contract for three more years. Keep in mind that under the new agreement a high second round draft choice would get a little over a million per year with a good chunk of that in signing bonus. As such they can afford to contract Alex for the same time frame. If Alex starts and Kaep backs him up or if Kaep starts and Alex backs him up doesn't matter costs remain the same. Alex contract ends by the time they would have to negotiate Kaep's extension at that time they could shift money over and keep their annual QB spend pretty consistent and mnimize impact of Salary cap.

If the contract is structured the way that I think it is (24-30mil with 10 guarenteed) there would be minimal impact even if they were to cut Alex sooner.

Great post.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Alex is Harbaugh's guy...he said in his Sunday interview he was fine with a 3-yr deal, so maybe it's his agent that's playing dumb. Whatever, he'll sign and start. I do fully expect Harbaugh to acquire Josh Johnson, though, as right now he has zero experienced b/u at the QB position.

Wouldn't surprise me at all

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

You have been a Smith backer since he was drafted. He's not getting hosed and there's is no inclination that the 49ers do or don't believe in Keap. What they do believe in is that they think they can develop Kaep.

Alex Smith is not getting hosed by anyone. The league, Alex, and the 49ers know that Smith is a slow applier compared to QB's like Fitzpatrick. Alex is the only one who has kept himself from being desired by other teams due to his mental nature to need to absorb first and apply second.

If anyone hosed Alex Smith, it was Urban Meyer by making the "ineffective" comment and scaring teams 7 years later to think that they can't just plug him in and expect results as they can with other NFL QB's.

You must confuse me with someone else. While I like Smith as a player, I am not naive about his weaknesses. This is not an elite QB by any means, but is still starting quality in this league. Call him a middle of the road QB, which statistically he was when adding raw numbers, QB percentage, TD/INT ratio. I am arguing from a fair market value point. Comparable players are receiving lengthier contracts with bigger dollar signs attached. Smith was the unquestioned leader of the team this past year, starting from the lockout through the playoffs. He has played well for a stretch of about 20 straight games (from late 2010 through the 2011 playoffs).

I just think the team needs to make a commitment either way on Smith. If he is not your man, then let him go and move onto the guy you think is the franchise QB. You can't state that he is your man, then offer some limited, lowball contract that reeks of uncertainty. What are you telling your team, fans, organization? He is our man...kinda...sorta. Smith is a good guy, a nice guy, and he will probably accept a crappy below market value contract. It doesn't mean it is fair or right for the organization to abuse his kindness. Fish or cut bait.

I don't agree. You offer him what you think be is worth and not fall into the rat race trap teams like Washington fall into. We don't need to bid against ourselves here. Alex has not proven as much in terms of overall film. His stats may match some other contracts but those other contracts also take into consideration the ceiling for those QBs. From every opinion we have read or heard of Alex Smith outside the Niner org, it has always implied that he doesn't have a high ceiling. Teams will take chances on QBs they feel have higher ceilings. Alex Hans proven that. What he has proven is that he won't entirely screw the coach if the pieces around him are there. He also has proven that he will not help your team if they aren't there, a situation most teams are in.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't agree. You offer him what you think be is worth and not fall into the rat race trap teams like Washington fall into. We don't need to bid against ourselves here. Alex has not proven as much in terms of overall film. His stats may match some other contracts but those other contracts also take into consideration the ceiling for those QBs. From every opinion we have read or heard of Alex Smith outside the Niner org, it has always implied that he doesn't have a high ceiling. Teams will take chances on QBs they feel have higher ceilings. Alex Hans proven that. What he has proven is that he won't entirely screw the coach if the pieces around him are there. He also has proven that he will not help your team if they aren't there, a situation most teams are in.

Who do you think we are? What have we done to think we can demand anything from anybody? It doesn't work that way.

We can play that game and I agree it worked last year. But do you really think that we can continue to lose our FA players that helped us get to where we were last year and keep replacing them with 2nd and 3rd tier guys.

Thats allot of wishful thinking IMO but maybe it works. But then again, maybe we strike out on all the 2nd and 3rd tier guys this year. Where would that lead us?

And if we think we can insult our starting qb and everything will be okay then I'm all in but something tells me thats not how humans operate.

Our even worse, he leaves, we start Kap and we stink once again. Cause the guy is not ready and will be a pick machine.

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
absolutely not. practice is one thing. CK has thrown all of what 4 passes in regular season games. there is no way they can assume he is ready to take the next step without any actual playing time.

The front office knows what they have in Smith. And they know his upside is limited. They're wondering if they hit a homerun with Colin.
If they did, there's no reason to keep Alex. Its a quarterback league ladies and gentlemen.

Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
The front office knows what they have in Smith. And they know his upside is limited. They're wondering if they hit a homerun with Colin.
If they did, there's no reason to keep Alex. Its a quarterback league ladies and gentlemen.

I have to disagree. The ball is in Alex Smiths court for sure. He played well all season long with an injured receiving corps. He showed a lot of promise in that game against the Saints despite Crabtree dropping passes. They were moments away from the Superbowl and you think the Niners are going to let him walk for un unproven QB with nada playing time? Don't think so.

Honestly, I think Alex once again is being the ultimate team player. I'm not a betting man, but I'll go out on a limb saying he's holding off allowing the Niners to sign as many weapons for him as possible - at least to a reasonable degree. This guy has been called a bust and compared to Aaron Rogers throughout his career and he wants a Superbowl. He's doing the smart thing and standing back letting His boys Harbaugh and Balkee set him up for a Superbowl. What a stark contrast to all the other head coaches and GM's we've had.

Originally posted by gavindirishmen:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
absolutely not. practice is one thing. CK has thrown all of what 4 passes in regular season games. there is no way they can assume he is ready to take the next step without any actual playing time.

The front office knows what they have in Smith. And they know his upside is limited. They're wondering if they hit a homerun with Colin.
If they did, there's no reason to keep Alex. Its a quarterback league ladies and gentlemen.

I cant believe rational people would want to replace a qb who led a team to a 14-4 record for a guy who threw 5 passes ....

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by gavindirishmen:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
absolutely not. practice is one thing. CK has thrown all of what 4 passes in regular season games. there is no way they can assume he is ready to take the next step without any actual playing time.

The front office knows what they have in Smith. And they know his upside is limited. They're wondering if they hit a homerun with Colin.
If they did, there's no reason to keep Alex. Its a quarterback league ladies and gentlemen.

I cant believe rational people would want to replace a qb who led a team to a 14-4 record for a guy who threw 5 passes ....

What if one guy would play for 12 million per year and another for 4 million per year and both put up the same mediocre stats.

Originally posted by boast:
nickbradley, do you honestly think the FO believes Kap is ready to take over the reigns of a team that was a few plays away from the Super Bowl? really?

Thats up to the HC in the end, not us. Starters can range from QBs that go through several years seasoning like Aaron and Brady or Rookies like Cam and Dalton. You really don't know until you put them in the game and the only one who can truly guage and knows is JH. We've said with Alex, that he didn't the support in his early years of good coaches or players. Well, the niners have good players now and any decent QB that comes in doesn't have to do it all himself.

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't agree. You offer him what you think be is worth and not fall into the rat race trap teams like Washington fall into. We don't need to bid against ourselves here. Alex has not proven as much in terms of overall film. His stats may match some other contracts but those other contracts also take into consideration the ceiling for those QBs. From every opinion we have read or heard of Alex Smith outside the Niner org, it has always implied that he doesn't have a high ceiling. Teams will take chances on QBs they feel have higher ceilings. Alex Hans proven that. What he has proven is that he won't entirely screw the coach if the pieces around him are there. He also has proven that he will not help your team if they aren't there, a situation most teams are in.

Who do you think we are? What have we done to think we can demand anything from anybody? It doesn't work that way.

We can play that game and I agree it worked last year. But do you really think that we can continue to lose our FA players that helped us get to where we were last year and keep replacing them with 2nd and 3rd tier guys.

Thats allot of wishful thinking IMO but maybe it works. But then again, maybe we strike out on all the 2nd and 3rd tier guys this year. Where would that lead us?

And if we think we can insult our starting qb and everything will be okay then I'm all in but something tells me thats not how humans operate.

Our even worse, he leaves, we start Kap and we stink once again. Cause the guy is not ready and will be a pick machine.

We are bargaining with a former employee that really can't threaten to go somewhere else for lots of money. That's exactly what we did with Goldson and Goldson lost the game of chicken. Fortunately, Alex won't play to the lengths Goldson did.

It's not like we are not going to give Alex a fair deal and slap in the face...he's going to get a fair deal but if he wants Fitzpatrick type money, then it is not out of any disrespect to say, "Hey, we understand you want more money so we'll talk when you have had a chance to go out and analyze what you can get out there."

And we franchised Goldson. Alex needs to show a little more before we pay him as if he had a peak production year.

Kap could easily get beat out by Tolzien for the starting job next year if Alex goes down with an injury, because that's the only way either one of them starts a game next season...End Thread

Originally posted by rk1642:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't agree. You offer him what you think be is worth and not fall into the rat race trap teams like Washington fall into. We don't need to bid against ourselves here. Alex has not proven as much in terms of overall film. His stats may match some other contracts but those other contracts also take into consideration the ceiling for those QBs. From every opinion we have read or heard of Alex Smith outside the Niner org, it has always implied that he doesn't have a high ceiling. Teams will take chances on QBs they feel have higher ceilings. Alex Hans proven that. What he has proven is that he won't entirely screw the coach if the pieces around him are there. He also has proven that he will not help your team if they aren't there, a situation most teams are in.

Who do you think we are? What have we done to think we can demand anything from anybody? It doesn't work that way.

We can play that game and I agree it worked last year. But do you really think that we can continue to lose our FA players that helped us get to where we were last year and keep replacing them with 2nd and 3rd tier guys.

Thats allot of wishful thinking IMO but maybe it works. But then again, maybe we strike out on all the 2nd and 3rd tier guys this year. Where would that lead us?

And if we think we can insult our starting qb and everything will be okay then I'm all in but something tells me thats not how humans operate.

Our even worse, he leaves, we start Kap and we stink once again. Cause the guy is not ready and will be a pick machine.

1rst 2nd or third tier guys can be in the eyes of the fan. Look at past history. If you have good personnel men, coaches and system your team is successful. Walsh took a lot of people who originally was thought of as 2nd and 3rd tier guys and made them successful with a good system and coaches. Have you already forgotten, most of the players were on the team the year before but the niners sucked. Enter JH and company, a few new people. Like every team you will win and sometimes stumble, look at the 49ers after the year they won the first SB, they fell flat on their face hard. Then picked up again.

I myself would like to see kaep get one more year of seasoning, but JH maybe okay with going into the season with him if Alex plays hardball. As I said sometimes you may need to take a step back to take 2 steps foward at times.

As for those who think we are low balling AS and should pay him the Bills and other QBs like Sanchez just because they are getting that kind of money is nuts. Nothing personnal, but you set your own standard, don't follow others and fall into the trap. Like the saying goes, just cause someone is okay with jumping off the bridge, are you going to jump off the bridge? if Alex is the answer long term, let him show that he improves and not level off the next year or two, then extend him, one year does not a a contract of the magnitude that his greedy agent wants. Don't get me wrong, I know he is trying to get the most for his client (as well as himself), but that doesn't mean we have to be held hostage. We have a plan and we are following it. I like it, we have a vision and system and following it and not winging it on a hope and a prayer. Something JH obviously learned from Bill Walsh.