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Looking for suggestions: watching film of the 49ers

Thought the original post was by Mike Singletary.
This morning I watched Ginn's two returns from the first game of the season. After the punt return they show Seattle's ST coach on the sideline. Behind him is #49 playing with his junk then pulls his arm from his paints adjusts his cup and does a little leg kick
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
It's OK as long as it's a hobby. There will be a bunch of Greg Cosell's on the forum thinking they are the motherfreak'n football aficionado because they watch films . Cosell should get a real job.

And after watching films, let me take a wild guess as to the conclusion... It's Alex Smith fault. He missed on his receivers.

Watching broadcast versions of the game isn't watching 'film'. that's not film.

No one here is talking about broadcast versions. How you got that from my post, I'm not sure....

Anyway, my whole point is even with game film without the NFL level coaching knowledge of the game, someone like Greg Cosell or an average joe with those films are prone to misinterpretation of what they see on the film on any given play.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jan 31, 2012 at 6:53 AM ]
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
I had NFL Game Rewind for last offseason and this whole season. I went back and watched all the games from 2009 and 20010. You only get coaches film of like maybe 3-5 plays a game. So you can really only break down DL/OL play, QB, RB, LBs at times, and WR's on short routes, DBs if the ball goes there way or if the pass is within 5 yards usually. Anything down the field out of picture of course you can't break down which is a lot since you don't know who was open on plays, who got burnt... heck unless you know the playcall you don't know if players are running the right routes or messed up, etc.

Anyways, I have broke down film in the past, Oldman49er does it a lot as well. Just don't post thoughts on here thinking you will get compliments if you break down every play. Most people value snap judgements more than breaking down the film. It takes about 3 hours to do if you watch each play 3-4 times. You will see a ton of things you don't see if you just watch the game live. So you do learn a lot but you won't get everything obviously without being a coach and knowing the play and having the coaches tape. It can be fun but it gets tiresome when you are into hour 2-3. P.S. I liked to do it for pre-season because you can learn more about players and who you think should make the PS or roster. You get to find out more about the backups. Good way to kill time, will make you a more knowledgeable fan but not a lot of people will want to or have the time and energy to do it.

Also, may I suggest starting off by copying a play by play of the entire game on say espn or cbs sports's gamecenters. Then fill in thoughts below each play so you know what play you were writing about. Either put it in Microsoft Word and type under each play thoughts or print it out and leave room after each play to write. If you hate writing like me I would suggest typing as it is neater and faster. That's if you will make notes on every play.

Another thing to do in the offseason's to become a better and more knowledgeable fan is to watch old games or videos on youtube, hulu, etc. You can get your fix that way... watch all the nfl shows on 49ers, study old players and coaches, look stuff up on wikipedi, look at team records, stats, etc

http://www.hulu.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers
Scroll down a bit, probably thousands of hours of video there


Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
It's OK as long as it's a hobby. There will be a bunch of Greg Cosell's on the forum thinking they are the motherfreak'n football aficionado because they watch films . Cosell should get a real job.

And after watching films, let me take a wild guess as to the conclusion... It's Alex Smith fault. He missed on his receivers.

Watching broadcast versions of the game isn't watching 'film'. that's not film.

Exactly. Unless you have all-22, you are not watching film.

this raises an interesting point. In the nfc championship game vs giants, alex smith got sacked on 1st play of 2nd half. The game was being covered by Fox, im sure they have a number of spotters and numerous cameras, as well as able announcers in troy aikman, a former nfl qb and joe buck...they made no comments about delanie walker being open for a possible td after the play, showed no replays which would suggest that smith missed an open walker

following the game, the niners beat writers, who surely would write about such a mistake in their post game stories, said nothing of the sort

a few days following greg cosell makes the claim that the niners missed a chance for a td when smith wouldnt pull the trigger on a wheel route to walker on the 1st play of the 2nd half...this was the first time i had heard this...if he is right, i would be surprised that aikman/buck or maiocco, barrows, inman etc would not have pointed it out

has anyone actually seen what cosell claimed occurred on this play? Im sensing he may be trying to justify his past criticsms of smith, which as the season progressed looked to me to be disproven...

Cosell works for NFL films. Cosell could might have missed that play during the game just like all the guys you mentioned. Then he watched the film and say the play. He has better access to film that those guys don't have. The guy would be out of a job if he just made up things that didn't really happen just to prove a point. You don't think anybody with the niners would contact the league to say this guy is making up erroneous claims that are totally unfounded. It wouldn't take much work to discredit the guy.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
I had NFL Game Rewind for last offseason and this whole season. I went back and watched all the games from 2009 and 20010. You only get coaches film of like maybe 3-5 plays a game. So you can really only break down DL/OL play, QB, RB, LBs at times, and WR's on short routes, DBs if the ball goes there way or if the pass is within 5 yards usually. Anything down the field out of picture of course you can't break down which is a lot since you don't know who was open on plays, who got burnt... heck unless you know the playcall you don't know if players are running the right routes or messed up, etc.

Anyways, I have broke down film in the past, Oldman49er does it a lot as well. Just don't post thoughts on here thinking you will get compliments if you break down every play. Most people value snap judgements more than breaking down the film. It takes about 3 hours to do if you watch each play 3-4 times. You will see a ton of things you don't see if you just watch the game live. So you do learn a lot but you won't get everything obviously without being a coach and knowing the play and having the coaches tape. It can be fun but it gets tiresome when you are into hour 2-3. P.S. I liked to do it for pre-season because you can learn more about players and who you think should make the PS or roster. You get to find out more about the backups. Good way to kill time, will make you a more knowledgeable fan but not a lot of people will want to or have the time and energy to do it.

Also, may I suggest starting off by copying a play by play of the entire game on say espn or cbs sports's gamecenters. Then fill in thoughts below each play so you know what play you were writing about. Either put it in Microsoft Word and type under each play thoughts or print it out and leave room after each play to write. If you hate writing like me I would suggest typing as it is neater and faster. That's if you will make notes on every play.

Another thing to do in the offseason's to become a better and more knowledgeable fan is to watch old games or videos on youtube, hulu, etc. You can get your fix that way... watch all the nfl shows on 49ers, study old players and coaches, look stuff up on wikipedi, look at team records, stats, etc

http://www.hulu.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers
Scroll down a bit, probably thousands of hours of video there

What a crock of sh!t..... how can they advertise "coaches film" and give you 3-5 plays per game? Goodell gonna Goodell.... all about the money.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Cosell works for NFL films. Cosell could might have missed that play during the game just like all the guys you mentioned. Then he watched the film and say the play. He has better access to film that those guys don't have. The guy would be out of a job if he just made up things that didn't really happen just to prove a point. You don't think anybody with the niners would contact the league to say this guy is making up erroneous claims that are totally unfounded. It wouldn't take much work to discredit the guy.

It's not about what he sees on film so much as how he interpret after what he saw on film. To say Smith is 'limited', tentative. Or Harbaugh is 'hiding' his QB. It could be any number of reason for Harbaugh to call certain plays or Smith not to throw that ball, most of those reasons are not privy to Cosell or anyone else just watching the film without being with the coach of the team or the players.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jan 31, 2012 at 7:13 AM ]
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
I had NFL Game Rewind for last offseason and this whole season. I went back and watched all the games from 2009 and 20010. You only get coaches film of like maybe 3-5 plays a game. So you can really only break down DL/OL play, QB, RB, LBs at times, and WR's on short routes, DBs if the ball goes there way or if the pass is within 5 yards usually. Anything down the field out of picture of course you can't break down which is a lot since you don't know who was open on plays, who got burnt... heck unless you know the playcall you don't know if players are running the right routes or messed up, etc.

Anyways, I have broke down film in the past, Oldman49er does it a lot as well. Just don't post thoughts on here thinking you will get compliments if you break down every play. Most people value snap judgements more than breaking down the film. It takes about 3 hours to do if you watch each play 3-4 times. You will see a ton of things you don't see if you just watch the game live. So you do learn a lot but you won't get everything obviously without being a coach and knowing the play and having the coaches tape. It can be fun but it gets tiresome when you are into hour 2-3. P.S. I liked to do it for pre-season because you can learn more about players and who you think should make the PS or roster. You get to find out more about the backups. Good way to kill time, will make you a more knowledgeable fan but not a lot of people will want to or have the time and energy to do it.

Also, may I suggest starting off by copying a play by play of the entire game on say espn or cbs sports's gamecenters. Then fill in thoughts below each play so you know what play you were writing about. Either put it in Microsoft Word and type under each play thoughts or print it out and leave room after each play to write. If you hate writing like me I would suggest typing as it is neater and faster. That's if you will make notes on every play.

Another thing to do in the offseason's to become a better and more knowledgeable fan is to watch old games or videos on youtube, hulu, etc. You can get your fix that way... watch all the nfl shows on 49ers, study old players and coaches, look stuff up on wikipedi, look at team records, stats, etc

http://www.hulu.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers
Scroll down a bit, probably thousands of hours of video there


Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
It's OK as long as it's a hobby. There will be a bunch of Greg Cosell's on the forum thinking they are the motherfreak'n football aficionado because they watch films . Cosell should get a real job.

And after watching films, let me take a wild guess as to the conclusion... It's Alex Smith fault. He missed on his receivers.

Watching broadcast versions of the game isn't watching 'film'. that's not film.

Exactly. Unless you have all-22, you are not watching film.

this raises an interesting point. In the nfc championship game vs giants, alex smith got sacked on 1st play of 2nd half. The game was being covered by Fox, im sure they have a number of spotters and numerous cameras, as well as able announcers in troy aikman, a former nfl qb and joe buck...they made no comments about delanie walker being open for a possible td after the play, showed no replays which would suggest that smith missed an open walker

following the game, the niners beat writers, who surely would write about such a mistake in their post game stories, said nothing of the sort

a few days following greg cosell makes the claim that the niners missed a chance for a td when smith wouldnt pull the trigger on a wheel route to walker on the 1st play of the 2nd half...this was the first time i had heard this...if he is right, i would be surprised that aikman/buck or maiocco, barrows, inman etc would not have pointed it out

has anyone actually seen what cosell claimed occurred on this play? Im sensing he may be trying to justify his past criticsms of smith, which as the season progressed looked to me to be disproven...

Yeah i talked about this in another thread. I dont knock everything Cosell says, but he lost a lot of credibility with me when as a man, he couldnt humble himself and say he was wrong. Then i laughed when he wrote a follow up article trying to explain what he meant. He said nothing when the Niners beat the Saints, but after the Giants loss, then he noticed this or that. Completely avoiding the fact that we scored because of some things commentators said we never had. "Chunk Plays". We had two and Vd scored on both if im not mistaken. If anyone watched the game it was scary how almost through the beginning of the third quarter, total yardage for both teams was almost identical. And both Qb's were shut down in the second half. So i watched some of the game, not all. And although what i did watch was painful. Yes there were some throws that Smith missed, but so did Eli. And Eli missed on more than one open pass. But he didnt mention that, just how poised Eli looked, etc. I guess so poised that he made no noise in the second half. lol.

When watching any games throughout the season, there was one thing that I heard in the Giants game, then I still have yet to here consistently about our Qb and WR's. When Eli missed an open pass to Cruz, horribly. Then after getting back to the huddle. The announcer said, "Well these two are only as good as they practice together, Eli and Cruz spend soo much time learning the little nuances of Cruz's routes and moves. Like a twitch here, a curl or gesture here. Thats why these two are so deadly."

IN order to make it work, the QB, and Wr have to be on the same page one hundred percent. The Wr doesnt always have to be open, but at the same time, what little nuances have our WR's worked out with the QB to prove he can trust them 100%. I think the 2 he has this chemistry with is Morgan and Davis. WE seem to forget ALL SEASON, when our Wr's, Ginn, Williams, Walker, Crabs, all dropped not just passes, but TD passes almost 1 to 2 per game. I especially remember that seam to Ginn, where it seems like he lost the deep ball in the air. That bomb to Swain on the sideline in the Saints game, where the announcer even said, Smith threw a good ball, but he's not the receiver to be able to get a ball like that. I mean all year in one way or another we have been talking about problems with the WR core. Some say Crabs just didnt get the ball that much to make any noise, but I mean when the game was on the line, how many drops did he have. But see some overlook that, and just point to the QB. Well you cant erase that, and those drops are just as big if not bigger, than one or two bad passes.

So once again, I think in the Championship game, our main weakness was exposed, and thats the WR core, period. And we made it that far, so thats gotta be some credit given to the coaching staff and the QB with the revolving weekly door of our Wr's.
Cosell is like any other media guy out there. He ride the guy that's playing hot at any given week. I still remember his take on Aaron Rodgers in one of his radio interview. 'He has pin point accuracy in his deep throws' Holy sh*t! -- never mind that his receiver adjusted to the ball when it's off also. I'm sure his hype has cooled down since Rodgers got bounced by the Giants in Lambeau no less.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jan 31, 2012 at 7:39 AM ]
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Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
It's OK as long as it's a hobby. There will be a bunch of Greg Cosell's on the forum thinking they are the motherfreak'n football aficionado because they watch films . Cosell should get a real job.

And after watching films, let me take a wild guess as to the conclusion... It's Alex Smith fault. He missed on his receivers.

Watching broadcast versions of the game isn't watching 'film'. that's not film.

Exactly. Unless you have all-22, you are not watching film.

You need more than all-22 to "watch the film."

You need to know the play that was called and each player's assignment for that play.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Cosell works for NFL films. Cosell could might have missed that play during the game just like all the guys you mentioned. Then he watched the film and say the play. He has better access to film that those guys don't have. The guy would be out of a job if he just made up things that didn't really happen just to prove a point. You don't think anybody with the niners would contact the league to say this guy is making up erroneous claims that are totally unfounded. It wouldn't take much work to discredit the guy.

It's not about what he sees on film so much as how he interpret after what he saw on film. To say Smith is 'limited', tentative. Or Harbaugh is 'hiding' his QB. It could be any number of reason for Harbaugh to call certain plays or Smith not to throw that ball, most of those reasons are not privy to Cosell or anyone else just watching the film without being with the coach of the team or the players.

If that's the case then why are we even discussing anything at all? So we should all just not have opinions based on what we saw b/c we aren't privy to the insight of JH or Smith? It's a matter of your opinion. The dude isn't saying his opinion is the gospel. And when he was praising Smith a week earlier nobody complained. Now if you just don't like his opinion then cool. But it's not far fetched to call a guy tentative when he takes a sack instead of throwing the ball to a wide open receiver. And Cosell isn't the only guy that has said that JH is hiding his qb. Most of the web zone said the same thing earlier in the season especially after the Cowboys game. Some folks will see it as they were just running the ball to keep the clock moving late in the game. While others think he's hiding the qb b/c in these situations big time qb's are trusted to make plays with his arm. Like you said none of have a clue at which opinion is correct b/c we aren't prived to the inside info. But does that mean folks shouldn't be allowed to share their opinions?
suggestion: never look into Andy Lee's eyes.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Cosell works for NFL films. Cosell could might have missed that play during the game just like all the guys you mentioned. Then he watched the film and say the play. He has better access to film that those guys don't have. The guy would be out of a job if he just made up things that didn't really happen just to prove a point. You don't think anybody with the niners would contact the league to say this guy is making up erroneous claims that are totally unfounded. It wouldn't take much work to discredit the guy.

It's not about what he sees on film so much as how he interpret after what he saw on film. To say Smith is 'limited', tentative. Or Harbaugh is 'hiding' his QB. It could be any number of reason for Harbaugh to call certain plays or Smith not to throw that ball, most of those reasons are not privy to Cosell or anyone else just watching the film without being with the coach of the team or the players.

If that's the case then why are we even discussing anything at all? So we should all just not have opinions based on what we saw b/c we aren't privy to the insight of JH or Smith? It's a matter of your opinion. The dude isn't saying his opinion is the gospel. And when he was praising Smith a week earlier nobody complained. Now if you just don't like his opinion then cool. But it's not far fetched to call a guy tentative when he takes a sack instead of throwing the ball to a wide open receiver. And Cosell isn't the only guy that has said that JH is hiding his qb. Most of the web zone said the same thing earlier in the season especially after the Cowboys game. Some folks will see it as they were just running the ball to keep the clock moving late in the game. While others think he's hiding the qb b/c in these situations big time qb's are trusted to make plays with his arm. Like you said none of have a clue at which opinion is correct b/c we aren't prived to the inside info. But does that mean folks shouldn't be allowed to share their opinions?

There are opinions. Then there are opinions that goes to the BS level. I just want to make sure it doesn't go to the BS
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
suggestion: never look into Andy Lee's eyes.
^^^^ #15 was lucky Andy didnt see that football, he would booted it right in that wide open mouth of his.
Originally posted by theduke85:
I'm really intrigued by the idea of "watching film" on the Niners. I want to formulate my own opinion on players, and learn to understand the subtle details of the game. I think that rewatching broadcasts would be a good way of accomplishing this.

If I do it, I'll probably do something this like: I'll watch each play 3-4 times; each time I watch it, I'll focus on one unit (line, 'backers, secondary / line, backs, receivers) and take notes or jot down comments based on what I see.

I've ran this idea by a few friends, and they seem to think it's crazy and overkill. I feel like I could go through a whole game like this and it'd only take me an hour or two -- a very small time investment for something that could be very beneficial for me, in terms of the knowledge I've gain. My biggest concern is that I don't have access to the tape that coaches do -- in other words, I'm limited to the views I get with the broadcast view.

Does anyone on these boards do anything similar to this?
Is it worthwhile/rewarding?
Any tips/advice?

If nothing else I think this could be a fun hobby, and could be a great way to fill the offseason void. I'm interested if anyone has any comments or opinions.

Thanks!

Aside from negative posts about film study I applaud your efforts. A large part of my job is film study, so I can say with a large measure of confidence that film study separates opinion from education, even if it is just a hobby. At least you will know what your are talking about. You might not have the same film as coaches but you do have game film, and thats only one step down from what NFL coaches have. I'd say if you are serious about film study just commit all games to DVD and go from there. Also, check whatever opinions you have at the door before you study. Other than that you will be fine.