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Brees, 1.5 seconds, and alex

The difference in that first meeting....our OLine was not prepared. Our OLine is obviously alot more prepared now than the first preseason game.
The op still hasn't addressed or rather fessed up to being WRONG about Bree's passes coming out in less than 1.5 seconds????? Pretty funny
Originally posted by longtime49erfan:
On top of that, it cannot be true that the Lions and Saints Ds got to the QB in 1.5 seconds. That's just not true. The original poster made that up in order to make a point, but the point fails because the claim is untrue.

Any defense that always gets to the QB in 1.5 seconds is the #1 defense in any year in the NFL.


There was hyperbole in the original post but he did not say the DL was getting to the QB in 1.5 seconds. He said Brees had the ball gone in 1.5 seconds. Here are the plays and yardage in the first quarter:

Pass 23 (longest in the 1st Q)
Pass 5
Rush 14
Rush 8
Pass 13
Rush 0
Pass Inc
Pass 11
Pass 5
Pass 7
Rush 31
Rush 9
Pass 15

So among those plays there were five short passes completed (13 yards or less), 5 runs averaging 12+ yards and two longish passes (23 & 15 yards). Brees was not airing it out but chipping away against the overly aggressive Detroit D. Same thing SF tried against the Lions, though they had a number of penalties that got in the way.

So, could he have passed to those short routes in 1.5 seconds? I believe so. Even the 15 yard gain down the middle might have been off in 1.5 or less. Now consider that these yardage totals include YAC and you can see that in the first quarter it would have been very possible to get the passes off in 1.5 seconds.

As a matter of fact Brees completed another 23 yard pass in the second quarter and finally in the second half started completing some bombs...40+ yards. The game was already out of reach for Detroit and they had to try to make plays...not something you want to do against Brees!
Sure there was hyperbole on the several bombs Brees threw, as dtg alluded to. Guilty. But, majority of time, Brees had ball gone in 1.3 to 1.5 seconds. Matter of fact , so did Stafford. An excellent point was made re: Brees's 2 OGs., who basically give him a relatively unobstructed view as opposed to the view alex had in preseason of 4 saints jerseys in his face on most plays...when he was hit, sacked or hurried over 30 times. Yeah, Brees has a heckuva advantage there, plus he and receivers know each others moves from working together for yrs, whereas alex has had a maximum of 4 weeks to learn his receivers routes, let alone their names. Apples and oranges and you can't compare alex/his receivers vs brees/his receivers. Advantage is all brees.

Don't laugh but alex is very capable of getting his passes gone in 2 sec, as I have timed him several times in last 3 games. It goes without saying that against ravens, texans, saints, steelers , any pass that takes more than 2 seconds, or worse, 3, 5 or 7 steps are headed for ash heap of history. Frankly the N.O. game should be a tougher game than if we were playing GB. Blitzing is a Saints specialty, about in the Ravens range. I needn't remind anyone what happened in that game except for the 3 mins at end of first half when we went 2 min drill and moved the ravens backward all down the field. Then curiously we didn't do that again...and that was a mistake....But JH learned from it. As for alex, i used to count his steps before throwing. Now i watch the second hand. Basically from here on out, he is going to have to throw the ball within 2 seconds of it touching his hands. Anything long and drawn out, is doomed to fail. Now, if we can back the saints off LOS, then Coach can go back to his game plan. But #1 job has to get N.O of the dang LOS.

As dtg kindly noted, Brees's passes in 1st qtr of 5, 14, 8, 13, 11, 5, 7 , 9, and 15 yds were all unleashed in under 1.5 seconds. His passes of 31 and 23 yds were also thrown to a spot, and one was thrown before WR got there. Other passes were so quick it was hard to get the stop watch on them. Remember, the longer passes also included YAC, and I didn't time those. Just out of curiousity, how many other folks were interested enough to actually time Brees's passes instead of saying they weren't thrown under 1.5 seconds? Not many I would guess. Only reason I did it was I was curious 3 games back how long it took for alex to get a pass away and make it complete. The answer was 2.0 seconds, and virtually all of those were complete. Once he got to 3 seconds, or 4, the chance of completion fell off the books. That is why I timed Brees's passes, to see just how fast they usually came out. To be honest, I was surprised. But all passes noted above came out in 1.5 sec or less. Incidentally, all 5 and 7 step passes of alex were well past 3, 4 or more seconds. His completion percentage follows how fast he get rid of ball.

Also, this is not alex's fault; it is playcallers fault. I think responsibility for this falls squarely on roman. No question Coach Harbaugh is aware of this, and if you don't believe it, just go back and put a stop watch on alex and see which passes are complete and which aren't. Basically quick passes = completions, and longer developing plays are incompletions. Hence, dinks and dunks, slants and outs are the passes that alex can complete against the saints with a box 8. Once they get out of that, (and quick passes are the only way, or screens to do that), frank's lanes open up and alex can then throw the medium or long ball. Until then, everything has to be quick and too the point. Also running against a box 8 will fail virtually all the time. I am hoping Coach H is planning on quick hitters to get the saints off the LOS, and then go about his game plan. As we saw with ravens, any game plan is doomed if the opponents camp out on LOS.

Finally,if you really believe brees wasn't getting the large majority of his passes off in less than 1.5 seconds, just take a stopwatch to the game or at home and see how fast that ball comes out. Then make a comment.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Sure there was hyperbole on the several bombs Brees threw, as dtg alluded to. Guilty. But, majority of time, Brees had ball gone in 1.3 to 1.5 seconds. Matter of fact , so did Stafford. An excellent point was made re: Brees's 2 OGs., who basically give him a relatively unobstructed view as opposed to the view alex had in preseason of 4 saints jerseys in his face on most plays...when he was hit, sacked or hurried over 30 times. Yeah, Brees has a heckuva advantage there, plus he and receivers know each others moves from working together for yrs, whereas alex has had a maximum of 4 weeks to learn his receivers routes, let alone their names. Apples and oranges and you can't compare alex/his receivers vs brees/his receivers. Advantage is all brees.

Don't laugh but alex is very capable of getting his passes gone in 2 sec, as I have timed him several times in last 3 games. It goes without saying that against ravens, texans, saints, steelers , any pass that takes more than 2 seconds, or worse, 3, 5 or 7 steps are headed for ash heap of history. Frankly the N.O. game should be a tougher game than if we were playing GB. Blitzing is a Saints specialty, about in the Ravens range. I needn't remind anyone what happened in that game except for the 3 mins at end of first half when we went 2 min drill and moved the ravens backward all down the field. Then curiously we didn't do that again...and that was a mistake....But JH learned from it. As for alex, i used to count his steps before throwing. Now i watch the second hand. Basically from here on out, he is going to have to throw the ball within 2 seconds of it touching his hands. Anything long and drawn out, is doomed to fail. Now, if we can back the saints off LOS, then Coach can go back to his game plan. But #1 job has to get N.O of the dang LOS.

As dtg kindly noted, Brees's passes in 1st qtr of 5, 14, 8, 13, 11, 5, 7 , 9, and 15 yds were all unleashed in under 1.5 seconds. His passes of 31 and 23 yds were also thrown to a spot, and one was thrown before WR got there. Other passes were so quick it was hard to get the stop watch on them. Remember, the longer passes also included YAC, and I didn't time those. Just out of curiousity, how many other folks were interested enough to actually time Brees's passes instead of saying they weren't thrown under 1.5 seconds? Not many I would guess. Only reason I did it was I was curious 3 games back how long it took for alex to get a pass away and make it complete. The answer was 2.0 seconds, and virtually all of those were complete. Once he got to 3 seconds, or 4, the chance of completion fell off the books. That is why I timed Brees's passes, to see just how fast they usually came out. To be honest, I was surprised. But all passes noted above came out in 1.5 sec or less. Incidentally, all 5 and 7 step passes of alex were well past 3, 4 or more seconds. His completion percentage follows how fast he get rid of ball.

Also, this is not alex's fault; it is playcallers fault. I think responsibility for this falls squarely on roman. No question Coach Harbaugh is aware of this, and if you don't believe it, just go back and put a stop watch on alex and see which passes are complete and which aren't. Basically quick passes = completions, and longer developing plays are incompletions. Hence, dinks and dunks, slants and outs are the passes that alex can complete against the saints with a box 8. Once they get out of that, (and quick passes are the only way, or screens to do that), frank's lanes open up and alex can then throw the medium or long ball. Until then, everything has to be quick and too the point. Also running against a box 8 will fail virtually all the time. I am hoping Coach H is planning on quick hitters to get the saints off the LOS, and then go about his game plan. As we saw with ravens, any game plan is doomed if the opponents camp out on LOS.

Finally,if you really believe brees wasn't getting the large majority of his passes off in less than 1.5 seconds, just take a stopwatch to the game or at home and see how fast that ball comes out. Then make a comment.

In what world is anybody going to read this?
1.5 seconds? Seriously?

Is anyone actually taking this seriously?

Jacoby Ford ran a 40 yard dash without pads at 4.28. That's approximately 10 yards a second.

1.5 seconds, from snap to throw, is physically impossible unless he's throwing a one step bubble screen. He wouldn't have receivers down field more than three yards at that speed.
i still don't understand what Brees getting rid of the ball quickly has to do with Alex getting rid of the ball quickly.

they're not on the field at the same time.


right?

or has Goodell changed that rule too?
Originally posted by redrathman:
1.5 seconds? Seriously?

Is anyone actually taking this seriously?

Jacoby Ford ran a 40 yard dash without pads at 4.28. That's approximately 10 yards a second.

1.5 seconds, from snap to throw, is physically impossible unless he's throwing a one step bubble screen. He wouldn't have receivers down field more than three yards at that speed.

NBC's broadcast displayed a clock that showed Stafford was getting rid of the ball in 1.5s - 1.7s range. I think that's where some of this came from. Basically, the ball's in the air before the receiver turns. By the time it gets to the receiver it's about 2-3s depending on the distance of the pass. Which is roughly 10-20 yard pass. If the DB jams the receiver and plays tight, this won't be possible. However, both Saints and Lions D were playing off the receiver to 'keep everything in front of them' and basically gave them a clean jump off the line. The 9ers dbs plays this way as well, so we'll see Brees try to sling the ball out fast before the Smiths can get to him. It's going to be interesting to see how our dbs and lbs anticipate the routes to take away the quick and intermediate throws.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by longtime49erfan:
On top of that, it cannot be true that the Lions and Saints Ds got to the QB in 1.5 seconds. That's just not true. The original poster made that up in order to make a point, but the point fails because the claim is untrue.

Any defense that always gets to the QB in 1.5 seconds is the #1 defense in any year in the NFL.


There was hyperbole in the original post but he did not say the DL was getting to the QB in 1.5 seconds. He said Brees had the ball gone in 1.5 seconds. Here are the plays and yardage in the first quarter:

Pass 23 (longest in the 1st Q)
Pass 5
Rush 14
Rush 8
Pass 13
Rush 0
Pass Inc
Pass 11
Pass 5
Pass 7
Rush 31
Rush 9
Pass 15

So among those plays there were five short passes completed (13 yards or less), 5 runs averaging 12+ yards and two longish passes (23 & 15 yards). Brees was not airing it out but chipping away against the overly aggressive Detroit D. Same thing SF tried against the Lions, though they had a number of penalties that got in the way.

So, could he have passed to those short routes in 1.5 seconds? I believe so. Even the 15 yard gain down the middle might have been off in 1.5 or less. Now consider that these yardage totals include YAC and you can see that in the first quarter it would have been very possible to get the passes off in 1.5 seconds.

As a matter of fact Brees completed another 23 yard pass in the second quarter and finally in the second half started completing some bombs...40+ yards. The game was already out of reach for Detroit and they had to try to make plays...not something you want to do against Brees!

Actually, the original poster said exactly what I said he said.

"The Saints and Lions Ds give the QB no more time than that."

He also said that Drew Brees gets the ball out in 1.5 seconds but it is his comment that tyhe Lions and Saints Ds get to the opposing QB in 1.5 seconds that disturbed me, because it isn't true. He said if Alex doesn't get the ball out as fast as Brees (1.5 seconds), then the 49ers are in trouble.
Originally posted by HessianDud:
i still don't understand what Brees getting rid of the ball quickly has to do with Alex getting rid of the ball quickly.

they're not on the field at the same time.


right?

or has Goodell changed that rule too?

My point exactly.
Originally posted by longtime49erfan:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
i still don't understand what Brees getting rid of the ball quickly has to do with Alex getting rid of the ball quickly.

they're not on the field at the same time.


right?

or has Goodell changed that rule too?

My point exactly.

Also, a QB doesn't have to get rid of the ball that fast because not even inside pressure can get there under 2.5s. Alex was getting rid of the ball in 2.3s in the Rams game and there were no pressure in sight before he threw those pases.
Originally posted by longtime49erfan:
Actually, the original poster said exactly what I said he said.

"The Saints and Lions Ds give the QB no more time than that."

He also said that Drew Brees gets the ball out in 1.5 seconds but it is his comment that tyhe Lions and Saints Ds get to the opposing QB in 1.5 seconds that disturbed me, because it isn't true. He said if Alex doesn't get the ball out as fast as Brees (1.5 seconds), then the 49ers are in trouble.

I stand corrected! Though he was in error or being hyperbolic, or both, I believe his position is correct--it's vital that Smith get rid of the ball quickly and/or be protected for as long as possible. Another aspect of this is Smith's tendency to hesitate before releasing the ball. He is much better now but when you watch a guy like Brees the comparison is stark. Brees makes up his mind and zing, the ball is gone.

The OP said quite a few things but I was quoting from his opening sentence: "Yup, that 1.5 seconds was the length of time it took Brees to unload the ball and frequently it came out at 1.3 seconds." Almost all of Brees' first half passes were ten yards or less so they were making a great effort to stunt the aggression of the Lions DL.

If exageration is a capital offense this board will soon be a desert.
I dont buy the getting the ball out in 1.5. I dont even need a stopwatch and some of those throws he had from 3 to 5 seconds to get rid of the ball. I mean i wonder if you saw the 3 int's that actually landed in the defenders hands and they couldnt come up with the catch. I can assure you that we wont drop 3 int's.

Also I found this interesting, and it's from a retired NFL Expert. IT spoke volumes:

Q: Can Smith make all the throws?

Expert: You're asking the wrong question. It's not if he can. But will he? If he doesn't think it's sure-fire, he won't throw it. Brett Favre and Drew Brees will take the shot. Some quarterbacks think, 'You're supposed to be an all-star receiver, you make play.' There are more great catches than throws. If a quarterback waits until a guy is a lock to be wide open, those throws would be few and far between.If the 49ers had better wide receivers, Smith might have a better opportunity for his receivers to go get it, to go make catches for him. Part of his reticence could be who is on the other end as the intended receiver. Last year I wouldn't throw anything at Michael Crabtree. He wasted a whole season. He was a dog.This season 49ers were 23rd in the NFL in total first downs with 282. New Orleans was first with 416. The 49ers were next-to-last in third-down conversions at 29.4 percent, not even 3 of ten. Can you imagine they still finished 13-3? Jim has done a great job analyzing what he has and designing his offense around what it can do.

Q: Can the 49ers go deep in the playoffs with that style of offense?

Expert: No, not with that style of offense. But with their kicking game and defense and not turning the ball over, yes. But not with that offense alone. If it becomes a shoot-out with their third-down percentage and lack of chunk plays, they are at a disadvantage.Who is their big-play, go-to receiver? Vernon Davis is probably one at his position. He has the ability to go deep and get the matchups he wants against a strong safety. How many strong safeties are good enough to cover him man to man?You've got to have receivers who make defenders worry about covering the field horizontally and goal line to goal line. If they don't fear your receivers can run by them, they won't respect you. You've got to put the fear of God in them that you can run by them. Ted Ginn is not a real wide receiver. He's more of a gadget guy. They have not developed him on the vertical concept.



Here's the link: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120107/NEWS/120109628?p=all&tc=pgall

Overall, it's the first time in a while that someone actually put the reality of our WR core in an article. Finally saying Ginn is not a true fluid WR, and Crabs last year, called him a dog (Wow, that was a big one).

So we dont have to keep hearing it's the QB, QB, QB. Because I will say this, when watching the Broncos game, and the Saints game; Just wow, watching how many of those passes the WR had to adjust to catch, almost on every other play. But they adjusted, rose above the defender, even some turned around in the air 360 style, just to make the catch. I mean to be honest, I dont trust some of these WR's myself to throw them to just a spot and truly believe they will fight for the ball. Give me Fitz, or Johnson (Calvin or Andre), and you will see a team really plan their defense around them and Gore. Now, its not that teams dont fear the QB IMHO, its that teams dont respect our WR core.
[ Edited by Jersey9er on Jan 9, 2012 at 7:10 AM ]
Jersey9er--has been posted elsewhere but it should be posted numerous times to get the point across. However, Smith had/has to get rid of the ball quickly because his line is not solid. While they have improved you can tell he is still trying to get rid of the ball in a hurry. With the receivers he has that is a problem because he has to watch and make sure they are taking the route assigned and then be sure that they are open.

Another way to help Smith and the OLine is to mix short throws and runs at the start of the game as NO did in the first half. The second half they had some bombs but by then the Detroit D was on its heals. SFs DLine will not run out of steam and they usually play better pass rushing in the second half as well. Very well conditioned team. Once SF backs the NO LBs off the LOS Gore should be able to find running room.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jan 9, 2012 at 7:25 AM ]
LOL Alex Smith thread got locked up. Good job guys!