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OFFICIAL "GOTTA WATCH THE TAPE" thread: coaches film on 49ers sacks (RAVENS GAME

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Rogers was sacked 50 times in 2009 and put up 30 TDs and 7 ints with a 103.2 rating and 4400 yards. That is what happens when you are getting pressure, but you are still able to make plays regardless of that. That year his O-line was injured and depleted but he was still able to have success. Smith is approaching 50 this year with 39 sacks, which is a career high but not even close to the stats Rogers put up in 2009...

Of course not all instant pressure is the same. But many of us have seen Smith fold under the pressure and bail out too soon. A clear example was that last Offensive play in the cards game. He inexplicably left the pocket and made a foolish play thereafter. Smith does this more often then not which explains why his numbers are so low.

Again, Rogers, in 2009 getting sacked 50 times with a crap Oline had success because of his pocket awareness. And his ultra-accurate rocket arm doesn't hurt either.

That's my mistake. I should have verified the stat before posting instead of after. Of course I clicked post, and then looked.

2011 - 26th in hits, 26th in sacks for 49ers
2010 - 29th in hits, 27th in sacks for 49ers

I won't contend at all that Rodgers is by far the better playmaker. He has done more with time than Smith. I was just trying to say that I think Smith, while clearly not on the level of Rodgers who is top 5 in escaping the pocket at least this year, can still get better there.

Rodgers 50 sack year was one of the years he was criticized for holding the ball too much. Like I said, that was really one of the only criticisms. He fixed this. I think Smith can fix it too.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Dec 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Rogers was sacked 50 times in 2009 and put up 30 TDs and 7 ints with a 103.2 rating and 4400 yards. That is what happens when you are getting pressure, but you are still able to make plays regardless of that. That year his O-line was injured and depleted but he was still able to have success. Smith is approaching 50 this year with 39 sacks, which is a career high but not even close to the stats Rogers put up in 2009...

Of course not all instant pressure is the same. But many of us have seen Smith fold under the pressure and bail out too soon. A clear example was that last Offensive play in the cards game. He inexplicably left the pocket and made a foolish play thereafter. Smith does this more often then not which explains why his numbers are so low.

Again, Rogers, in 2009 getting sacked 50 times with a crap Oline had success because of his pocket awareness. And his ultra-accurate rocket arm doesn't hurt either.

That's my mistake. I should have verified the stat before posting instead of after. Of course I clicked post, and then looked.

2011 - 26th in hits, 26th in sacks for 49ers
2010 - 29th in hits, 27th in sacks for 49ers

I won't contend at all that Rodgers is by far the better playmaker. He has done more with time than Smith. I was just trying to say that I think Smith, while clearly not on the level of Rodgers who is top 5 in escaping the pocket at least this year, can still get better there.

Rodgers 50 sack year was one of the years he was criticized for holding the ball too much. Like I said, that was really one of the only criticisms. He fixed this. I think Smith can fix it too.

Hopefully. Yup. Hopefully.

i think alex just needs to commit to something as soon as instant pressure is comming, especially if they are playing man defense.

although i don't expect him to get 28 yards like kaep did here...but we would be moving forward and not taking sacks.

every now and then at least. id prefer if he'd read the pressure before hand even allow it without audibling just so he could exploit it.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
i think alex just needs to commit to something as soon as instant pressure is comming, especially if they are playing man defense.

although i don't expect him to get 28 yards like kaep did here...but we would be moving forward and not taking sacks.

Agree with this. I know we all hated when he rolled right and threw out of bounds but honestly...it's better than a sack and avoids injury. Plus, when Alex rolls out, it can move the pocket and I feel like our receivers this year are smarter about moving around to get open when the pocket breaks down (see that play Alex made to Hunter vs the Eagles for a 44 yard gain, the play to Walker vs the Ravens, etc). I mean I'm all for "stepping up" in the pocket and "hanging in there" yada yada but I just don't think that's Alex's strength. His strength is his athleticism and ability to create plays when rolling out. I'd like to see more designed roll outs as well. After the Cowboys game, they all but disappeared.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
The second quarter sack:



This one was hard to understand. For one moment it seems like Crabtree is wide open to the left running an out route, but then he takes off another 15 yards only to break out again. I don't know when Alex was supposed to get the ball to him. If it was on the first break, then it's on Alex. If it was on the seond, it's on the protection.

This one was on Goodwin, he was too late on his man.

Looks like it's supposed to be a seven step drop (which explains Crabtree's developing route) but the protection didn't hold up.

it was a seven step drop... crabtree was running what seemed like a corner at first then a go then a comeback so im not exactly sure if that was supposed to be there and the oline was just bad... plain and simple
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
The second quarter sack:



This one was hard to understand. For one moment it seems like Crabtree is wide open to the left running an out route, but then he takes off another 15 yards only to break out again. I don't know when Alex was supposed to get the ball to him. If it was on the first break, then it's on Alex. If it was on the seond, it's on the protection.

Look at what happens in that play... it was all on protection, as soon as Alex turns around from the PA fake he has a guy running free right for him (right around the same time Crabtree first comes open). More than likely he was supposed to be thrown to, but it's hard to do that with a rusher right in your face immediately.
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Sacks 1, 2 and 4 were not Smith's fault. Three he held it too long, did not see Crabtree and should've checked it down as soon as he felt the pressure and moved right.

Sack 1: He was hit instantaneously, even before the receiver was beginning to get open. Not hit WHEN the receiver was open. BEFORE he was even STARTING to get open.

Sack 2: The folks saying the receiver was wide open clearly do not understand the speed of the NFL game and the fact that Alex does not have the monster arm QB's like Newton, Stafford, or Cutler. Think about it. When Alex looks at Crabtree, the safety reads his eyes -- if Alex sets his feet an throws it, it's an easy interception because the safety has an easy peasy straight ahead FREEWAY to the ball. Crabtree needed to get maybe a couple yards further into the deep in so Alex can throw it and lead him to where he can either jump and shield the defender or catch it on the run. Protection didn't hold long enough. On a deep in, you need the line to protect longer obviously than a slant or other short route.

Sack 4: As already mentioned, this was a slant and go. Crabtree was not supposed to get the ball short, he was supposed to get it long. Wasn't enough time for the deep route again.

But even if he was supposed to throw it on the short if it was there he did not have a chance. Guy running free up the middle after he turns around from his PA fake. The fact it was PA says you are correct though, he was definitely supposed to go deep there (route develops too quickly short for it to be a throw on a PA fake).
Originally posted by Evilgenius:
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
The second quarter sack:



This one was hard to understand. For one moment it seems like Crabtree is wide open to the left running an out route, but then he takes off another 15 yards only to break out again. I don't know when Alex was supposed to get the ball to him. If it was on the first break, then it's on Alex. If it was on the seond, it's on the protection.

Look at what happens in that play... it was all on protection, as soon as Alex turns around from the PA fake he has a guy running free right for him (right around the same time Crabtree first comes open). More than likely he was supposed to be thrown to, but it's hard to do that with a rusher right in your face immediately.

This happens in Madden every time. Especially on the goal line. So frustrating.
I know there were a few responses and additional postings of when Montana and Rogers were successful. However, I just wanted to point out that pressure right up the middle is a MUCH different protection/avoidance issue than a tackle being beat. Offenses are designed to help block/protect the edges of the OL, allowing the QB to step up, as everyone likes to quote so much, and make a play. However when your rush is in your face, it's pretty hard to step up, or keep your eyes down-field with someone coming immediately at you at the snap.

The OL must protect for more than 1 second.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Dec 17, 2011 at 9:48 AM ]
I have coaches film on at least 4 sacks of the Ravens game. Coming later today.
^^^ Yes please.
49ERS at RAVENS:


Sack 1:


My take: this one is on the protection. The routes were not yet developed when Alex got hit. Staley gave up the first pressure, which Alex evaded by stepping up. But A. Snyder also got beat in the middle, so Alex had no chance.


SACK 2:


This one seemed to be all scheme. The Ravens overloaded the 49ers left side only to to send pressure through the opposite one. You can see that immediately after the ball is snapped Rachal looks for someone to be coming from his left and never sees the rusher running by him on the right side. Interesting playcalling though, sending all receivers on streak routes.


SACK 3:



This one is on Alex. He had enough time to let the ball go. He was looking at Delanie, but a Raven sit underneath his route, and Alex missed Davis running open down the seam. That ball has to come out.


SACK 4:


I'll put the blame here on both Alex and the O-line. Alex seems to have made a bad pre-snap read wanting to go to VD, but there was a LB underneath with help over the top. He should have went to Ginn on the right side. However, because the protection was very poor, he didn't have a chance to move to his second read.


SACK 5


This one is on the playcalling. Two WRs running streak routes and NO OUTLET????? Gimme a break!

SACK 6:


Anthony Davis gets manhandled. Pure and simple.
On saw two sacks on Smith above. Harbaugh I think noted there were 3 he would've put on Smith. So of the other three, one more. The 2nd sack I believe, I don't know what Alex is looking at. It seems inexplicable that he wouldn't throw it to the receiver in the middle unless he just never saw him. He could've dropped it over the two linebackers, he's good at making those throws. He just has to throw it.

I love Alex as a QB, but if that's his first read (in the middle) he has to make that throw on sack two. Granted, unless he saw him within 1.5 seconds (ball snapped at 11.5, Smith sacked at 13.5), he wouldn't be able to make the throw on time, but this is frustrating.

I do think we all need to consider that just because a WR is open, it does not mean he is the first read. I got really upset at this sack at first and then I considered this and calmed down a little. Maybe we need to change the route progression order or Alex needs to be told to pay better attention to the holes exposed by the blitz, because in these plays it looks like he is only running the play as designed. Though I suppose, considering this was only the second sack, that would make sense because we wouldn't have been making major adjustments yet.
Interesting mix, it more or less breaks down in thirds; Smith, Oline, Playcalling. That's another way of saying we lack offensive cohesion. The offense as a whole needs to be on the same page. Any great offense knows what the other components of the offense are doing and experiencing, hence their ability to overcome blitzes, breakdowns, etc.